WW2 British Jeep weapons

[TheVoidDragon]

I've recently got some of the Airfix 1/72 scale British Airborne Jeep starter kits, of which there are multiple build options - a British Airborne Jeep or a US jeep with canvas/.30cal/.50cal mounted on the back. I know the British used those weapons during WW2, but the only British examples with those i can find are on customized jeeps as part of the LRDG (which isn't really applicable to this situation) and all the other pictures I've found seem to have Vickers and such mounted instead of the US .30/.50. I've not found anything to indicate they were mounted on the back of jeeps in the same sort of way as the US build options in the kit, does anyone know if that sort of loadout on a jeep was actually used by the British too?

 

Just to be clear, like this:

[Seahawk]

A similar purchase sent me rereading Popski's Private Army by the eponymous Vladimir Peniakoff.  PPA (its official designation) was but one of a whole slew of clandestine outfits operating in North Africa.  Not too many vehicle details but I think the picture is that initially their jeeps were armed with 2 Vickers K guns (also provided in the kit) on a pintle next to the driver.  Later, in the latter stages of the Tunisian campaign, they re-equipped with equipment drawn from US 2nd Corps stocks: alternate jeeps were armed with 0.3" and 0.5" MG (locations not specified): the latter were to give German armoured cars something to think about.  During operations in Italy each jeep seemed to have 2 MGs.  From photos these appear to be one each 0.3" and 0.5", mounted interchangeably in the codriver's position or the rear cargo deck mount.  The 0.50" is more common in the after position, but on a much lower mount than in the US version above.

 

BTW the jeep kit's Vickers K guns are very nice, much more delicate than basically the same weapons as provided in the 1/72 Blenheim kits, though there are detail differences especially around the muzzle.

 

Must look up some of my old Military Modelling articles on modelling LRDG jeeps!

[Graham Boak]

Dragon also do an SAS jeep with very nice Vickers and spare goodies.

[Kingsman]

Armed British jeeps outside the various special force units are rare.  We didn't use them as armed recce in the way the US did as we had lots of scout cars, armoured cars and universal carriers - of which they had no equivalents.

 

The only real non-SF armed option is the airlanding recce squadron - still only used at Arnhem IIRC - whose jeeps mounted single or twin K guns on the scuttle on mounts similar to the SAS ones.  I suppose even they count as a sort of SF.

[TheVoidDragon]

3 hours ago, Seahawk said:

A similar purchase sent me rereading Popski's Private Army by the eponymous Vladimir Peniakoff.  PPA (its official designation) was but one of a whole slew of clandestine outfits operating in North Africa.  Not too many vehicle details but I think the picture is that initially their jeeps were armed with 2 Vickers K guns (also provided in the kit) on a pintle next to the driver.  Later, in the latter stages of the Tunisian campaign, they re-equipped with equipment drawn from US 2nd Corps stocks: alternate jeeps were armed with 0.3" and 0.5" MG (locations not specified): the latter were to give German armoured cars something to think about.  During operations in Italy each jeep seemed to have 2 MGs.  From photos these appear to be one each 0.3" and 0.5", mounted interchangeably in the codriver's position or the rear cargo deck mount.  The 0.50" is more common in the after position, but on a much lower mount than in the US version above.

 

BTW the jeep kit's Vickers K guns are very nice, much more delicate than basically the same weapons as provided in the 1/72 Blenheim kits, though there are detail differences especially around the muzzle.

 

Must look up some of my old Military Modelling articles on modelling LRDG jeeps!

Didn't realize the kit also came with the Vickers, i'd only taken a look at the instructions before now! Seems the kit could fairly easily be used to make a LRDG Jeep in that case, might have to get another...

 

2 minutes ago, Das Abteilung said:

Armed British jeeps outside the various special force units are rare.  We didn't use them as armed recce in the way the US did as we had lots of scout cars, armoured cars and universal carriers - of which they had no equivalents.

 

The only real non-SF armed option is the airlanding recce squadron - still only used at Arnhem IIRC - whose jeeps mounted single or twin K guns on the scuttle on mounts similar to the SAS ones.  I suppose even they count as a sort of SF.

I thought something like that might be the case.  There's quite a few photo's of British Jeeps in Europe with a vickers mounted on the passenger side, but only photos of them as part of the LRDG/SAS seem to have anything in the rear mount. My plan was to just follow the instructions for the US-jeep with the .30/.50 included in the kit, but change the markings from US to British, I suppose that wouldn't really work then!

[Graham Boak]

There were differences between the Airborne jeeps and the standard ones, which were discussed on this board when the Airfix kit came out.  The Airborne ones, IIRC, had bits missing so they were lighter and could be more easily manoeuvred through aircraft and glider doors.

[Max Headroom]

There is one problem immediately obvious for doing an LRDG Jeep, in that the radiator grille is a solid one piece moulding and as far as I am aware most of the slats (?) were removed. Also for a non vehicle modeller like myself is the lack of extra jerry cans and other ‘clutter’ needed to make the Jeep look busy.

 

Trevor

[Seahawk]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

There were differences between the Airborne jeeps and the standard ones, which were discussed on this board when the Airfix kit came out.  The Airborne ones, IIRC, had bits missing so they were lighter and could be more easily manoeuvred through aircraft and glider doors.

The most obvious one was removing the end of the front bumpers: the Airfix kit comes with full bumpers but tells you to cut off the ends for the airborne option.

56 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

There is one problem immediately obvious for doing an LRDG Jeep, in that the radiator grille is a solid one piece moulding and as far as I am aware most of the slats (?) were removed. Also for a non vehicle modeller like myself is the lack of extra jerry cans and other ‘clutter’ needed to make the Jeep look busy.

Yes.  IIRC all the slats were removed except for the 2 centre ones.  I think Matchbox got this right on the jeep in their Chevrolet plus jeep LRDG set.  This modification is not apparent on any of the photos of PPA jeeps.  As for stowage, the kit comes with 4 jerrycans as cargo for the trailer plus one for the rear for the US option.  For some reason the 4 seem to be a different size from the vehicle-mounted one (even making allowance for the fact that the latter is in a rack): the reason for this entirely escapes me.  Again some useful stowage available with the Matchbox LRDG kit (though 1/76 vice 1/72).

[Yorkshire man]

5 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

There is one problem immediately obvious for doing an LRDG Jeep, in that the radiator grille is a solid one piece moulding and as far as I am aware most of the slats (?) were removed. Also for a non vehicle modeller like myself is the lack of extra jerry cans and other ‘clutter’ needed to make the Jeep look busy.

 

Trevor

These are useful for allied Jerry cans

1/72 scale Vo3d2 WW2 Allied Jerry Can Set (37 Pieces) £10.99 from Fogmodels on ebay.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Yorkshire man

[malpaso]

The 50 cals on desert jeeps were usually different looking from those in the kit.  They were often modified from aircraft type 50s, most obviously the full length perforated cooling jacket as seen on B-17s and B-24s.  Where from and how such guns got transferred to ground duties is a good question, similarly i belive the Vickers K .303

guns were ex-aircraft duty too.

[Seahawk]

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 12:29 AM, malpaso said:

The 50 cals on desert jeeps were usually different looking from those in the kit.  They were often modified from aircraft type 50s, most obviously the full length perforated cooling jacket as seen on B-17s and B-24s.  

This is not the case for the PPA 0.50"s and 0.30"s in any of the 4 photos showing them in Popski's Private Army: definitely no cooling jackets.

[Kingsman]

The AN/M2 aircraft gun with the full-length cooling jacket barrel was uncommon on ground vehicles.  Yes, SAS managed to acquire some of these from the RAF in N Africa along with the Vickers GO "K" guns.  Both had higher rates of fire compared to other MGs, making them especially suited to the SAS jeeps' roles.

 

SAS did not use the standard M2HB and hardly anyone else used the AN/M2.  The RAF Armoured Car Companies did have a few, perhaps logically.  The 0.5" is really an anti-materiel weapon and 7 - 8 mm MG are better anti-personnel weapons.