Fairey Fulmar Captured by Vichy French during 1942 - Need original FAA markings/codes please?

[clive_t]

Hi all, this is a long shot but I am hoping that someone out there has a reference book that might shed light on my question.

 

For a bit of background, I have a MisterCraft Fairey Fulmar kit waiting in the wings, and I noticed today that one of the decal options is for Vichy French markings - apparently the aircraft in question was from 807 Squadron based aboard HMS Furious. I have some family connections with that particular ship during that period, and so I had hoped to build it with its original (ie pre-capture) colours and markings. Try as I might, however, I can find no on-line references to the aircraft (N4006) that indicate what it would have looked like. It follows that obtaining decals is likely to be a problem, unless I can source some generic lettering of the correct size and colour.

 

Can anyone help with this please?

 

Fingers crossed and all that

 

[FalkeEins]

..can't really help as such...but I was only just now looking at some artwork for this machine in a French publication ' Les Ailes Francaises' (issue no. 5) entitled 'l'aviation de Vichy'. According to their text the machine was lost from the Ark Royal during the abortive attempt to persuade Vichy forces in Dakar to come over to the allies (23- 25 September 1940). GC I/4 flying Curtiss H-75s 'may' have flown it subsequently.... unless that's not the same aircraft

[Graham Boak]

No codes listed in FAA Squadrons nor FAA Aircraft of WW2.  As it was being flown by a Lieutenant Commander you might get away with assuming it had the individual code A, but that's a pretty weak reed.  As 800 Sq was also around on Furious at this time, it probably carried the squadron code 7 rather than 6, but again that's sort-of-informed guesswork.    Even the way the codes were carried varied from unit to unit.

 

So if you painted it  with 7 to the left of the roundel and A to the right, or both forward, or both aft... you've a safe bet that no-one can contradict.   Unless the likes of Ian Gazeley know more?

 

There is a second edition of FAA Aircraft of WW2 being worked upon, so perhaps you could contact Lee Howard via Air Britain?

[fubar57]

From "Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945 - "N4006 -----807Sqn Furious, unable to locate ship on return from recce, landed at Dakkar, Cat ZZ 27.3.41 (L/C OF Wheatley OK & S/L RB Hodgetts PoW). Nothing more I'm afraid

[fubar57]

4+ Publications has a photo with the caption, "Reportedly the only aircraft of its type to fly in foreign service was this captured ex-No. 807 Sq. Fulmar Mk.I. It was on strength of Groupe de Chasse I/4 at Dakkar, Vichy French Senegal, in the summer of 1941.". The aircraft wears Vichy French markings

[ClaudioN]

Earlier than N4006 another Fulmar force-landed in Dakar from its carrier, in this case HMS Formidable. The date was 4 January 1941 and the unit No. 803 Sqn.

 

I believe it is more likely this one that appears in pictures. Photos usually show a very large French tricolour on the fin and rudder. I believe this was partly obtained from the original red-white-blue stripes that N1914 probably wore over the entire fin: the British blue was turned into a lighter French blue and the rudder received  white/red stripes of the same width. The front part of the fin was probably overpainted in some camouflage colour, such as grey.

 

HTH

 

Claudio

 

[Graham Boak]

This was N1914.  Both 803 and 807 Fulmars would have been coded 6x, but 803s were not initially coded.

[ClaudioN]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

This was N1914.  Both 803 and 807 Fulmars would have been coded 6x, but 803s were not initially coded.

What I meant is that, although the Fulmar with the French tri-colour on the tail is often captioned as N4006, it is possibly N1914 instead.

The French tail marking is unusual, having blue on the fin and white-red on the rudder, whereas the French used to have all three colours on the rudder. In the case of N1914 it is easy to figure out how the fin/rudder marking may have been modified from British into French, as I suggested in the mail above. N4006 would be a Mk. II and its fin marking was likely the familiar 27in x 24 in red-white-blue square. In this case I'd wonder why the French might have conceived that strange marking pattern on the fin.

 

Claudio

[larumivi1951]

Fulmar (803 Naval Air Squadron):

Rudolph

[clive_t]

Thanks all for the comments so far, I appreciate you all taking the time to respond to this 

[Lee Howard]

Just to clarify, Wheatley was actually Sub Lieutenant (the second edition of the book will correct this).

[fubar57]

15 hours ago, ClaudioN said:

What I meant is that, although the Fulmar with the French tri-colour on the tail is often captioned as N4006, it is possibly N1914 instead.

The French tail marking is unusual, having blue on the fin and white-red on the rudder, whereas the French used to have all three colours on the rudder. In the case of N1914 it is easy to figure out how the fin/rudder marking may have been modified from British into French, as I suggested in the mail above. N4006 would be a Mk. II and its fin marking was likely the familiar 27in x 24 in red-white-blue square. In this case I'd wonder why the French might have conceived that strange marking pattern on the fin.

 

Claudio

According to "Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945" and here...http://www.ukserials.com/   the Mk.II Fulmar started as serial number N4017

[ClaudioN]

17 hours ago, fubar57 said:

According to "Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945" and here...http://www.ukserials.com/   the Mk.II Fulmar started as serial number N4017

Sorry, I was citing from memory. N4006 was one of the last Mk. Is in the second order for Fulmars.

It was delivered around December 1940, so my remark about this aircraft having the small rectangular fin flash still applies.

 

HTH

Claudio