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perdu

Fifty shades .. H-19 open to the skies ooops

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Riiighhhht

 

In the light of Jeff's good advice about using silver paint on the metal blade surfaces that will show, has anyone got experience of using AK Interactive's True Metal paste?

Mine is AK455 Aluminium, I wonder if it can be spread out and rubbed almost to invisibility the way the old metal paste stuff could if you used it very thinly?

 

And if it will then accept masking and painting...

 

Looks like time to hit the garage again

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I have the same Bill. I've only tried it on test subjects. It appears to work quite well using the techniques you propose. Not how well it would take masking. Technically it's a coloured wax, so not sure it would take paint.

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Well if both of you say so I'd best repair to the garage and experiment

 

 

I may be some time...

 

congrats on getting on the front page of the branch mag with the Lanc Tomo

 

👍

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Experiment away Bill in good old eccentric British garden shed fashion - compliment intended.

 

Re Lanc on front page. Thanks Bill. I'm pretty chuffed.

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I’ve used it that way, Bill, and it’s worth a try.  The Vallejo Metal Color (I think that’s what they’re called) range also react well to post-cure polishing, in my experience.

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 Thanks Crisp, I tried it on one rotor blade* last night

Boy isnt it shiny, looks like this will be the shine of choice on my Lightning T4 when she hits the bench

Must try it over various bases to see how metal-like I can get it

Also need to try flatting back the Vallejo which has been my favourite of the day 'til now

 

 

 

 

 

*never fear, the rotor blade was from a now defunct Airfix Puma 'cos even I am not that daft

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The results are in

 

If I can get the photos out of my phone and into Postimg.cc

 

If

 

Looks like the best 'deadish' looking metal but not too shiny finish goes to a mixture of Vallejo Natural steel and Vallejo Aluminium

 

pictures later-ish

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IF a picture paints a thousand words, here is my latest short story

 

20190315_122944.jpg

 

 

20190315_122950.jpg

 

20190315-123817.jpg

 

Which tell me nothing because I cant take decent pictures in the garage with metallic colours (at all, actually ... but)

 

The Two vallejo metallics give me a more grey finish

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The AK metallic wax finish  will take a coat of acrylic but has no resistance to erosion at all, as soon as I placed a clean cotton bud on it the paint fell off the surface

Fail

 

But paint on top of the Vallejo painted rotors resisted the soft bud's action well, should be fine to use it

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 I can see why Jeff didnt advise painting the LEs silver

This is from my set of pictures at Yeovilton Air Day two years ago

 

See the LE on the blades?

 

Not shiny silver metal by any description huh?

P1130003.jpg

 

I think they might be titanium or some other dull metal so I plan spraying all the blades with my experimental silsteel mix tomorrow

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^ Yeah look at that!! Obviously metal but not bright and shiny Humbrol 11. It often has a very slight "brownish" tinge to it, like a heat stained metal (blade de-icing). I did experiment one time painting something in a matt greyish colour and then rubbing pencil lead powder in to it but that darkened the grey too much. Kinda worked though. Another thing I do for my airliners is to have a small drop of Rub'n'buff silver on the tip of a cotton bud, remove as much excess as possible then push the bud into the leading edge so it forms around it and slide it along from root to tip. Just enough silver paste comes off on this first pass to impart a silvery metallic look but not look like Kit Kat tinfoil. In certain light it's quite visible but other times its just hinted at. Another pass adds more silver paste.

 

Jeff

 

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Caught up Bill - tiny, tiny, great stuff!

I use the AK paste a lot and it can be thinned with white spirit if that helps? You can also apply it thinly / wipe it off to let the grey plastic show through...

How about a varnish coat to seal it in before paint (if you need it)? Would that work?

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Posted (edited)

At the risk of incurring Bill’s wrath for using his build to test ideas for mine, his excellent photo from Air Day raises another question: how, if at all, to represent the heating elements in the windscreen.  The overhead panels are a uniform tinted colour (as in most helos)... but the main windscreens are not; just like the Lynx, they apper to have a heated element bonded to the inside of the window (I expect it’s more sophisticated than that, but I am simplifying for a mere pilot).  

 

The white lines show the edge of the element.  The challenge is that 1. As the lines show, the element doesn’t go right to the edge of the screen - so the lines are quite prominent, seen from the outside; and 2. the element makes the screen itself appear slightly tinted (but that too doesn’t go right to the edge).

 

To be honest, in Bill’s scale I think he can justifiably ignore this.  I am less sure in 1/48, let alone my Revell 1/32 Lynx... but I have no idea how to do it convinvingly.

 

[Sorry, William; but thanks for the experiments with blade erosion / anti-icing strips, which equally apply to Lynx blades, both main and tail rotor]

 

P.S. oh how I envy the simplicity of that blade fold set-up in comparison with the Seaking!

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU

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Cheers guys, Crisp as I regard myself as an experimental techniquist I am honoured to be helping you in the processes of your Lynx build

I have hugeasaurus Lynx too, one day maybe...

 

If/when I might consider masking the interior of the window and scratching those lines on inside

Chalk dust would then heighten the impression and keep them visible (white only on them) and I'd use the back face of a Swann-Morton blade to incise the marks not the front edge

 

That might've worth a play on the spare Merlin screen Richard sent me, I'll think about that after this build

 

I am kinda wishing I'd held off making the rotor head and blades up now, the Italeri blades have the (stiffening?) knuckle on the inner leading edge instead of the same place trailing edge of the real blades

I thought it looked a bit odd but when I started I'd not really looked at modelling Merlins, ho hum we live and learn

 

Not, not changing it on an assembled assembly so it is what it is

 

Ced AK also wipes away with IPA but I've not tried fixing it to paint it, I'll be pleased to use it on my Lightning

 

Jeff I thought about using it like rub'n'buff as you do, but in fact I am going to spray the metallic dark grey all over then mask and green them up

 

Morning in the garage beckons

 

😃

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28 minutes ago, perdu said:

If/when I might consider masking the interior of the window and scratching those lines on inside

Chalk dust would then heighten the impression and keep them visible (white only on them) and I'd use the back face of a Swann-Morton blade to incise the marks not the front edge

That was my immediate thought too - scribe on the inside....

....chalk dust's an interesting addition, but how would it remain in place? I'd suggest run some thinned white paint into the scribed lines, and wipe away any excess...

 

....at least it's not a mass of zig-zags like Harrier or Hawk MDC - try scribing that into the inside of a curved canopy, and in 1/72 to boot! 😨

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I think it will stay in place mostly and if Crisp wanted to replicate the slight tint inside the glass a misting of Smoke could perform wonders, double dip style

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1 hour ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

To be honest, in Bill’s scale I think he can justifiably ignore this.  I am less sure in 1/48, let alone my Revell 1/32 Lynx... but I have no idea how to do it convinvingly.

Interesting challenge. I have in the past used an artists draughting pen (very fine) to replicate fine lining on model locomotives, and I did once use it reasonably convincingly to produce MDC cord on the inside of a canopy. I tried that freehand at first which was very difficult, but in the end used a fuse wire template (or similar, I cant recall exactly what wire) to draw around. It all took an inordinate amount of time, and was very fiddly but the result wasn't too bad.

 

On your blades Bill, in this scale certain metallic finishes can definitely be safely replicated with varying shades of grey IMHO, but there is one Alclad colour (Dull Aluminium) which produces a remarkable looking dull metal colour without much metallic lustre - I used it on the T31 to replicate doped fabric, and you have seen it in the flesh.......

 

20180227_171355

 

 

Worth a try?

 

Terry

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15 hours ago, perdu said:

I think they might be titanium or some other dull metal so I plan spraying all the blades with my experimental silsteel mix tomorrow

2

That's correct, the BERP III that is used on all AW101's have a Titanium erosion shield on the leading edge, the erosion shield on the BERP tip is Nickel-Cobalt (about 9% cobalt).

 

I believe the erosions shields are electroformed, which is part of the reason they get their dull metallic appearance.

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3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

At the risk of incurring Bill’s wrath for using his build to test ideas for mine, his excellent photo from Air Day raises another question: how, if at all, to represent the heating elements in the windscreen.  The overhead panels are a uniform tinted colour (as in most helos)... but the main windscreens are not; just like the Lynx, they apper to have a heated element bonded to the inside of the window (I expect it’s more sophisticated than that, but I am simplifying for a mere pilot).  

 

The white lines show the edge of the element.  The challenge is that 1. As the lines show, the element doesn’t go right to the edge of the screen - so the lines are quite prominent, seen from the outside; and 2. the element makes the screen itself appear slightly tinted (but that too doesn’t go right to the edge).

 

To be honest, in Bill’s scale I think he can justifiably ignore this.  I am less sure in 1/48, let alone my Revell 1/32 Lynx... but I have no idea how to do it convinvingly.

 

[Sorry, William; but thanks for the experiments with blade erosion / anti-icing strips, which equally apply to Lynx blades, both main and tail rotor]

 

P.S. oh how I envy the simplicity of that blade fold set-up in comparison with the Seaking!

7

 

The de-mist in the AW101 is far more advanced than on previous helicopters, unlike in your car where there are little heating elements (wires) running through the glass, the 101 has a special material (the company who make it are reasonably secretive about the actual composition) laminated between the two perspex layers. It also has quite a different appearance to most de-mist windows, it gives it a multicoloured tint (like oil/fuel on the surface of water) - a very hard effect to pull off in 1/72! This effect is also totally invisible to

the crew, kind of a one-way mirror thing.

 

The erosions shield doesn't actually have any heating element in it, the heater matt (if installed) is between the spar and outer skin, the erosions shield goes over the top of this.  https://dspace-erf.nlr.nl/xmlui/bitstream/handle/20.500.11881/532/97_11.pdf?sequence=1

 

None of the Lynx/Wildcats have ice protection on the main or tail rotors, not sure there's even a slip ring option to allow cables to get to the main rotor head or tail rotor hub.

 

3 hours ago, perdu said:

Cheers guys, Crisp as I regard myself as an experimental techniquist I am honoured to be helping you in the processes of your Lynx build

I have hugeasaurus Lynx too, one day maybe...

 

If/when I might consider masking the interior of the window and scratching those lines on inside

Chalk dust would then heighten the impression and keep them visible (white only on them) and I'd use the back face of a Swann-Morton blade to incise the marks not the front edge

 

That might've worth a play on the spare Merlin screen Richard sent me, I'll think about that after this build

 

I am kinda wishing I'd held off making the rotor head and blades up now, the Italeri blades have the (stiffening?) knuckle on the inner leading edge instead of the same place trailing edge of the real blades

I thought it looked a bit odd but when I started I'd not really looked at modelling Merlins, ho hum we live and learn

 

Not, not changing it on an assembled assembly so it is what it is

 

Ced AK also wipes away with IPA but I've not tried fixing it to paint it, I'll be pleased to use it on my Lightning

 

Jeff I thought about using it like rub'n'buff as you do, but in fact I am going to spray the metallic dark grey all over then mask and green them up

 

Morning in the garage beckons

 

😃

 

Hi Perdu, yep, you're correct the Merlin doesnt have the stiffening knuckle on the mian rotor blades (at least the current standard doesnt!).

 

I think the Italeri Merlin Mk I kit also comes with the old Teetering Tail Rotor, which has since been replaced with the Fully Articulated Tail Rotor (which is like a small scale version of the main rotor head).

 

Leonardo S.p.A. AW101 'Merlin'

 

 

Ben

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That's a brilliant photo Ben thanks for that, the tail rotor on ZH847 is, sadly the old style but look at all that beautiful 'stuff' I could have put in there if it had been the new type

 

I keep getting a bit tempted to buy the HC4? ex RAF version and play, might be fun after I finish my Chickasaw, Wokka, Lightning and S-61Ns

 

Maybe the Portuguese version...

 

Colourful colours, beat that

 

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9 minutes ago, perdu said:

That's a brilliant photo Ben thanks for that, the tail rotor on ZH847 is, sadly the old style but look at all that beautiful 'stuff' I could have put in there if it had been the new type

 

I keep getting a bit tempted to buy the HC4? ex RAF version and play, might be fun after I finish my Chickasaw, Wokka, Lightning and S-61Ns

 

Maybe the Portuguese version...

 

Colourful colours, beat that

 

 

The Portuguese version does have a fantastic colour scheme! I'm very keen to make a Norway 101, but there's so much additional work that needs doing!

 

ZH847 definitely has the new Fully Articulated Tail Rotor (as far as I'm aware, there are only a couple old Teetering versions about, none of which are UK MOD), ZH847 is an early 500 series (serial 50111), so I think it started life as a Mk I (with the old teetering rotor), but has since been upgraded to the Mk 2 standard with a fully articulated. It also has the fully shrouded main rotor head (unlike the unshrouded Mk I version that the Italeri kit has).

 

https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/1066341/zh847-royal-navy-agusta-westland-aw101-111-merlin-hm-1/

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Oh oh

 

I suppose that, seeing as how she won't be on parade at club tomorrow, maybe I could...

 

I do love the complexity of its bits

 

This means it isnt going to be like this then

5-Ace-Hendon-153.jpg

 

And I was so pleased to find I had such a good shot of the teeterererer

 

Anyway, experiments over for today

Because the titanium is obviously not in need of shine nor sheen I left the Aluminium out of the mix and simply painted the forward edges in Natural Steel with my lovely little Ultra and following further experimentation with the Puma rotor gear I matted it down with Tamiya TS-80 which looks rather good

 

As it is still gasssing off I have left it downstairs in the garage to let the aroma of Tamiya spray float off in the wind (ooh missus, isnt it windy huh) before I bring it upstairs for Kodakery

 

I am sure that you will all like it, pics laters             

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45 minutes ago, perdu said:

Oh oh

 

I suppose that, seeing as how she won't be on parade at club tomorrow, maybe I could...

 

I do love the complexity of its bits

 

This means it isnt going to be like this then

5-Ace-Hendon-153.jpg

 

And I was so pleased to find I had such a good shot of the teeterererer

 

Anyway, experiments over for today

Because the titanium is obviously not in need of shine nor sheen I left the Aluminium out of the mix and simply painted the forward edges in Natural Steel with my lovely little Ultra and following further experimentation with the Puma rotor gear I matted it down with Tamiya TS-80 which looks rather good

 

As it is still gasssing off I have left it downstairs in the garage to let the aroma of Tamiya spray float off in the wind (ooh missus, isnt it windy huh) before I bring it upstairs for Kodakery

 

I am sure that you will all like it, pics laters             

Blimey heck, that's an old heli, and a great photo of the teeterer too!

 

And yes, unfortunately for you there is a little bit of scratch building that needs doing to make the fully articulated - though judging by your excellent scratch building for all the other various components, it's not going to be any issue for you :)

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The jury is still out on whether to make the newer tail rotor, after all I have already decided not to make the Italeri rotor blades comply with the real standards


Might just let it go, this time but there are further possibilities down the track

 

I'll decide tomorrow after consultation at club with some more OCD types

 

And Tomo

 

Just like to report that Valiant Boys is sitting in The Works this week (in Sutton Coldfield) for four quids if you haven't got it

Anyway up, the heat pads along the tail have been added with Tamiya Tape cut to shape, it ought to give that look of something else up on top the tail

 

Can you consider this photograph please

0cf791b3cca8f2a977423ea8dc54211c.jpg

Tucked away inside the starboard wheel fairing there seems to be a fire extinguisher bottle, reddish brownish chestnutty looking thing

 

Is it A: an extinguisher

If A is there another on the port side

If not is it a reservoir for air to blow down the wheels if the hydraulics fail

 

Most important answer is for "is there another on the port side?"

 

And I think it is time for the rest of the antennae now

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4 hours ago, perdu said:

Most important answer is for "is there another on the port side?"

 

Bill, - sure looks like it from here

 

Mirror123.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

:penguin:

 

 

sorry, couldn't resist

 

 

 

 

 

 

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