VT Red Sox Fan Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 Priming and post shading--finally! 🙂 Initially I sprayed the cockpit area black for the interior of the frame--I was not as brave as @giemme in painting the interiors themselves--maybe I will get there some day 😉. Following the black cockpit area, I sprayed the entire aircraft Tamiya grey primer, then I airbrushed Tamiya Red for the Turbine warning and spray painted flat white around the nose air conditioning intakes--on my aircraft these were red trimmed in white. Once the white had tried, I brush painted insignia red and let this dry. I decided to follow @giemme's build with the red turbine warning lines below the national insignia (I confirmed photographically for my machine) and guessed that this extended partially underneath the airplane in the same manner as in the build I leveraged fro reference. It seemed to make sense that early F-4Ds would be painted very similar to the F-4C @giemme built. I made the stipe by using a decal as a guide for the stripe's thickness and cut based on photos from @giemme's build. I also masked the air-conditioning intakes to provide the white trim. I then sprayed a 2d coat of Tamiya primer & a 3rd to get rid of the red. Once this was done I pre-shaded with Tamiya black. Photos follow--next will be the camp--keep your fingers crossed for the metalic area! As always, thank you to everyone's ideas on how to improve myself intros hobby... Best, Erwin 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f111guru Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Great progression so far. Nice affects on the preshade. I'm a classic hoarder when it comes to left over parts and aircrew. Also have boxes of sprue from various companies and have used them to make wheel chocks, whip antennas, pitot tubes, aoa sensors and the like. I've used them with other companies to make varying heights of both air and ground crew members. There is not much on the open market that I haven't used in this hobby. VT keep up the great work Ron VanDerwarker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) Thanks Ron @f111guru--great thoughts about how to use the spares--best, Erwin Edited February 3, 2019 by VT Red Sox Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Nice progress, Erwin As far as the rear view mirrors go, there's a picture Gene posted in my thread of his GIB, Jerry, sitting in his seat; you should be able to spot the mirror configuration there. Most of the PE fret have it wrong, BTW: it should be a central mirror attached to the canopy and two side ones on the fixed frame in front of the GIB. HTH Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) Erwin, Sorry to point out an item that you should fix ... if I'm viewing/reading your post #73 correctly. Appears you affixed (removable, I hope, if you used white glue) the canopies' inside "side frames" too high - they should be even with the outside scribing on the canopies ... so that the hooks protrude out from under the canopy in the open position. When the canopies close, the hooks latch into slots on the canopy rails (they disappear). Looking very good with the masking and pre-shading. Gene K Edited February 4, 2019 by Gene K 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 @Gene Kthank you for making the time & I apologize for the tardy response—I have been on the road this week. As luck would have it, all the PE frames fell off when I temp glued the canopy down for painting so I will have a solid chance to fix—I agree this is big error I need to fix. Thanks for the compliment on the pre shading——this is my 1st pre shade model—cheers Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Hello all, appologize for the for long delay--work and family has kept me busy or on the road this month for awesome reasons--but I have managed to work on my F-4D without posting pics until now. I believe my skills eliminated any benefit from the pre shading (actually it is probably because you I used a spray can instead of aibrush--I hear the critiques coming in 😉 ) , but other than that I am pretty happy with the camo scheme--just making touch ups to match my reference photos. I am now a big fan of Top Notch's camo masks... they adhered very well, did not damage my paint work as I progressed from color to color and I have no doubt I will be able to use them again (this time with an airbrush 🙂 ). The afterburners/stabilators were only dry fit--lots of work to do before complete, but I couldn't resist--I am sure everyone understands 🙂 Working on the radome & finishing touches & then to the wash and masking. Thank you all for the inputs and I look forward for ideas on how to improve this project. Best, Erwin Edited February 23, 2019 by VT Red Sox Fan edit 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Nice camo job, Erwin! Probably the best you can get with spray cans. I guess if you want to introduce some tone variations, you'll have to work with panel lines washes and some drybrushing Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f111guru Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Coming along nicely. Quite bright though. In time you'll learn the process of toning down the colors. It took me years. Ron VanDerwarker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Thank you @giemme & @f111guru for your notes—Ron, I was going back and forth w/ the idea of a wash & well you made it a guarantee pointing out the bright contrast... thank you for the pointer—that said I really have to give Top Notch credit for their product—I cant wait to use it on my upcoming Defiant—I think these camo masks will really up my RAF game 🙂. @giemme, thank you for the compliment on the spray can camo—my next camo will be airbrushed for sure & will likely go in w/more confidence given your thoughts—will be leaning heavily on your build for upcoming weathering/decaling—I really liked the underside of your build in particular—today I picked out the panel lines with a NO2 pencil on my F-4–the graphite helped blend things in a bit, but I think the wash will be vital—planning on lacquering the over enamel with a gloss coat & then using tempera water based craft paint—once happy will will lacquer w/gloss and decal—am also about to paint in the tail pressure gauges and am thinking about Saran Rap to replicate the glass (I wasn’t as brave as @giemme in cutting pastic to replicat)—Sran Rap will be sealed by lacquer—will try not to delay the next installment for so long 😎best Erwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, VT Red Sox Fan said: ... I really have to give Top Notch credit for their product—I cant wait to use it on my upcoming Defiant—I think these camo masks will really up my RAF game 🙂. Erwin, Your Phantom progress is really great! Since you'll be using an airbrush next time, I think you'll get better and more accurate* camo patterns by creating your own: Get a good three view; enlarge it to the scale you're working; print on medium weight paper; cut pattern pieces; run a thin Blue-Tack type putty worm around the underside of the pattern to give just a little surface offset; and spray perpendicular to the patterns as much as possible ... with not too much air pressure (some practice required). That process will give you a soft camo edge on those aircraft that have it. Of course some aircraft have hard edges, and in this case, VERY lightly spray the back of the patterns with a repositionable adhesive such as this. Gene K * Yes, I appreciate that there are variances in the application of "official" camo patterns. Edited February 25, 2019 by Gene K 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 She’s coming along nicely, Erwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 @Gene K--thanks for the compliment & tip on cammo--I don't think I would have linked the spray removable adhesive to the application of airbrushing--but the concentration of talent here exponentially enhances the quality of builds--and makes them more fun 🙂-- I learn something everyday here. You are absolutely correct that variances need to be accounted for from a standard mask. Based on reference photos, I did modify the lines on the left side around the intake--the standard provided by Top Notch was too far off--even for me on this build. Will post photos when I return from the road. Now, I just want to find a photo/pics of F-4C "The Saint" to try all the great ideas I am getting. BTW, I plan on fixing the canopy hook issue pointed out at the end of this build... the beauty of using white glue is that all frame pieces came off without incident--I can't wait to start building when I get home 🙂 @RidgeRunner--thanks for the shout out 🙂 Best to all, Erwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Gene K said: Erwin, Your Phantom progress is really great! Since you'll be using an airbrush next time, I think you'll get better and more accurate* camo patterns by creating your own: Get a good three view; enlarge it to the scale you're working; print on medium weight paper; cut pattern pieces; run a thin Blue-Tack type putty worm around the underside of the pattern to give just a little surface offset; and spray perpendicular to the patterns as much as possible ... with not too much air pressure (some practice required). That process will give you a soft camo edge on those aircraft that have it. Of course some aircraft have hard edges, and in this case, VERY lightly spray the back of the patterns with a repositionable adhesive such as this. Gene K * Yes, I appreciate that there are variances in the application of "official" camo patterns. @VT Red Sox Fan @Gene K Even better..... Get the accurate 3-view and enlarge to your scale. Print. Get as much reference material as you can and draw out the exact pattern. Start airbrushing with the lightest colour. To me with US SEA it means light grey, tan, medium green and then dark green. Once the undersides are painted grey mask off the demarcation. I do this by similarly cutting a paper profile and cutting it around 5mm wide. Then apply masking tape along the straight edge and place on the model. You will see that this gives you a fine soft edge. Next airbrush freehand the tan. Then cut out the tan masks from your drawn mask sheet. In the centre of each mask cut out a number of 3-5mm square holes with a craft knife. Place pieces of masking tape over each hole and then use them to accurately place your mask and stick it to the model. Next you airbrush the medium green and follow the same process until done. You will find that this gives you a scale accurate blur along the camouflage demarcation lines. Clearly you will need to extend the masks that wrap around the fuselage as the curvature will be longer. Just my few pennies worth. It is how I did "Mr Toad" so you can see the results for yoursef. Martin Edited February 26, 2019 by RidgeRunner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 All great points above from @RidgeRunner, @Gene K, @giemme& @f111guru—I really appreciate the comments from builders like you & appreciate you getting me to up my game—looking fwd to how this F-4 turns out & then to the next build w/the awesome (& quite interesting techniques you have all shared) Best Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) Friends, based on great inputs from @giemme, @Gene K, @RidgeRunner & @f111guru on how to improve the camo scheme I pulled out my references/airbrushes & redid the left tan/greens behind the cockpit and the tail based on my references. Unfortunately, pictures of this particular F-4D are thin, but there are a few of the left side, which is where I concentrated my efforts. Once I got the camo & touch ups where I wanted them I used a sharp #2 pencil to pick out the panel lines/rivets. I believe the camera with flash enhances the pencil panel line contrast--it seems subtler to me sitting on the shelf. The F-4D is now back in the paint shop getting a gloss coat for washes and decals. 🙂 Question for folks, does anyone have good references for the bands/markings of Vietnam era AIM-9B, AIM-7 and the AN/ALQ-87 & AN/ALQ-101 pods? I can find a bunch of museum photos, but I haven't had the best luck w/ Vietnam era photos. Next step will be turning to the weathering on @giemme's build--I am going to attempt use acrylics to weather my aircraft--I believe that is a difference. Hopefully it will tone down the color contrast as mentioned by @f111guru. Anyway on to the photos--thank you for following, the great inputs and encouragement--while I am confident, this not the best 1/72 F-4D on the forum, I am very satisfied with how it is turning out thanks to everyones' great inputs... best, Errwin Edited March 3, 2019 by VT Red Sox Fan Edit 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) Hope everyone is doing well. Sorry it has been a while, but the build, my marriage and kids survived the toughest & longest part of any McDonnell Douglas build--stencils! 🙂 I used the MicrosScale F-4 data sheet for grey F-4s since most of my research indicated Vietnam F-4Ds had black tech stencils vice the white stencils included in Microscale's camo F-4 data. As usual, I leveraged at @giemme & @Gene K excellent work from Britmodeller. I also found a few pics of my aircraft--some without the eagle & a few with provided on Print Scale's decal sheet. Unit markings came from the Print Scale sheet. After all was said and done, I decided to put the eagle on both intakes--on my F-105 build, @RidgeRunner and I discussed the good and bad of PrintScale decals--I initially left off the Kill Marking from F-105D Honey Pot, based off of photographic evidence--only to have Martin kindly find a pic with the kill marking, which in turn built my confidence in they product--that I said I understand there are a lot of opinions out there about their accuracy. Only other issue I had with Print Scale's sheet (beyond research data) was that the red underneath the canopy is supposed to extend well under the front portion of the canopy--it does not. Fortunately, Tamiya white and red coupled with a pointy brush solved this problem. Please excuse the background mess--we will be moving, I am sure many of you understand understand how that goes. Way forward--a few more days of MicroSol to build better decal adherence, make the bottom red star a 1/2 kill mark, last gloss coat, tempura paints wash, flat coat and then weapons loading--probably @f111guru's favorite part 🙂 As always, thoughts and comments are always welcome--the concentration of talent on this blog is incredible and I feel that this has made this model turn out as--greatly appreciate everyone's help in getting me to up my game! Best to all, and sorry this build is progressing at the exact opposite pace of wartime production 😉 Cheers, Erwin @ Edited April 14, 2019 by VT Red Sox Fan Edit 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Coming along nicely!! You may want to check the color of the speed brake wells - believe they should be white. The inside of the speed brakes themselves should be red. Gene K 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) Thanks @Gene K--compliments mean a lot coming from you--the air break well color being different than the underside color is a major learning point for me on USAF F-4s--its like my world is now turned upside down 🙂 I am basing the color interpertation of the brake wells off of my Detail & Scale volumes on the F-4C/D & also noted @giemme used the underside color for the well interior. That said, almost all of the Detail & Scale observations seem to be based on airframes which were overhauled post Vietnam--which would bot be relevant to this build if the break well color changed when aircraft were overhauled. Additionally, none of my Vietnam photo references seem to show this area of the F-4 to great effect (the break doors themselves are almost clearly always red). Do you have any photos in your pics to the contrary--I think your photos were a highlight in @giemme's build--in fact your underside photo convinced me to do the technical stencils even though it felt like a slog--the results were worth it though! In line with your thinking, I am planning on a red door and strut as on @giemme's build--a clear advantage of the Monogram kit is the wells are detailed. My build instead will be an exercise in research, pointing and weathering without the the awesome scratch building @giemme had to do on the Hasegawa/Mongram kit bash... in our current era, people don't seem to give these older kits as much credit as the deserve--I really enjoyed your commentary on the new Airfix F-4--I am thinking of buying a Fujimi kit now--but will probably build Airfix's phantom now that i have the Big Ed Set... thank you for your time--I am honored for your feedback given both your service to our nation and phenomenal Phantom knowledge--best, Erwin Edited April 15, 2019 by VT Red Sox Fan Edit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 She's come together nicely, Erwin Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f111guru Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Looking great. Decals have made a good kit great. I have found trying to find images of a single subject quite nerving and mind boggling. I do believe we have all been there our far share. Again Erwin doing a smashing job on the kit. Ron VanDerwarker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 20 hours ago, VT Red Sox Fan said: ... -the air break well color being different than the underside color is a major learning point for me on USAF F-4s--its like my world is now turned upside down 🙂 Erwin - thanks for the kind words, but I gave you a bum steer since almost all I found in my refs was that the well color generally matched the underside color. The best best F-4 expert, Scott Wilson, says here that , "The speedbrake wells were always the color of the surrounding camouflage on the jets I worked on ... ". I found pics of white (attached), green, and even red wells, but most matched the underside color. In the case of the real life C model (and others), the underside FS 36622 gray was nearer to white than the official color chips, so my fading memory obviously blended the colors (although the interior color I remember pretty well matched the toilet paper rolls "a friend" once loaded). So ... sorry for the misdirection - your model is, of course, correct! Gene K 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) Thank you @f111guru & @RidgeRunner for the comments--greatly appreciated! @Gene K--thank you for the background research, I wouldn't say you gave me a "bum steer" as I can create quite a fur ball with some of my builds in the merge 😉 The photos above are really useful... and I appreciate you sharing them---I now plan on using foil with black and a needle to replicate the inner stencils on the air break--I love the way the conversations go with this crew--we solve one problem while creating a solution for a hidden (phantom 😉) one! Cheers to all, Erwin Edited April 16, 2019 by VT Red Sox Fan Edit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) Erwin, I went back checking in progress pic of my build, and I can confirm you that I painted the air brakes bay the same color of the underside, that is FS 36622 gray. As Gene @Gene K says, this color is very close to white in real life, and even on the model, once all weathered, it's hard to tell the difference. I think this subject arose during my build too, although I couldn't find the exact post in it. Keep up the good work Ciao Edited April 16, 2019 by giemme 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) @giemme & @Gene K--thanks fellas.. I feel pretty confident I got this correct with you guys on my wing! Hope you are having a great week--I am enjoying silvering down the decals this week w/ Micro Sol in preparation for the last gloss coat to support final weathering... best to all, Erwin Edited April 16, 2019 by VT Red Sox Fan Edit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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