billn53 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 The AIM-9D entered USAF service in 1967, so no one would argue if you used that version for your Phantom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f111guru Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 I would agree with billn53 that the AIM-9D would be a good choice. We did use in 1972 the AIM-9J on a limited basis. Ron VanDerwarker 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) Fellas, thanks for the advice—2 quick follow on questions—I thought I heard the sidewinders included in the Monogram kit were poor, but all I have been able to find are glowing reviews, & none of the builds discuss the versions—are the kit missiles good in the eyes of the forum & what AIM-9/AIM-7 versions are they? (To the untrained eye they look great). One other question—was there confusion on the AIM-9D—this review seems to indicate the USAF did not use the AIM-9.D. http://thecombatworkshop.blogspot.com/2016/11/sidewinder-overview-part-ii-aim-9dgh.html?m=1 Thanks for the thoughts—hope everyone had a Merry Christmas best Erwin Edited December 27, 2018 by VT Red Sox Fan Content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billn53 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 13 hours ago, VT Red Sox Fan said: Fellas, thanks for the advice—2 quick follow on questions—I thought I heard the sidewinders included in the Monogram kit were poor, but all I have been able to find are glowing reviews, & none of the builds discuss the versions—are the kit missiles good in the eyes of the forum & what AIM-9/AIM-7 versions are they? (To the untrained eye they look great). One other question—was there confusion on the AIM-9D—this review seems to indicate the USAF did not use the AIM-9.D. http://thecombatworkshop.blogspot.com/2016/11/sidewinder-overview-part-ii-aim-9dgh.html?m=1 Thanks for the thoughts—hope everyone had a Merry Christmas best Erwin I'm embarrassed to admit I must have had a brain fart... it was the AIM-E that entered USAF service in 1967. The "D" version was indeed a Navy missile, although I did find one reference that claims the Air Force used them "in limited numbers" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 @billn53 thank you for the info—it totally makes sense that few AIM-9Ds might have made it on to USAF jets given the flight line’s preference for the AIM-9 vice hq’s preference for the Falcon. Do you or the forum agree w/ this linked run down that the missiles in the Monogram kit are AIM-9Bs (the noses look too pointed to, but I am far from an expert) http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/148643-f-4-phantom-guide-for-the-masses/&page=3 Thanks for the advice! Best, Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billn53 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 I don't have the Monogram kit, so can't say anything about their Sidewinder representation. But, if you want some really nice AIM-9E's the Eduard-Brassin set is really nice: 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Its been a wonderful Christmas season with New Years to come--& I even got some time at the bench today to work on the F-4! 1st thanks to everyone who responded during the "drought". While I was not building, I had a bunch of time to research and prepare for installing Monogram's infamous intakes. Before I left for the holidays, I assembled the wing pan with the fuselage leveraging @Gene K's intake trunks demonstrated by @giemme's Mongram/Hasegawa kit bash. I did not take any photos of this step,, but frankly there was nothing to add to the body of knowledge that giemme did not cover in his simply awesome build. In order to deal with the seams while trying to minimize damage to the raised panel lines, I decided to cut down the interior of the intake trunks immediately behind the vari ramps & sand down the thickness of the intakes. I would finalize seam filling/toning down with Tamiya grey bottle surface primer. I was very happy with the result--photos below of 80% completed project. Unfortunately surface detail on the top seam behind the cockpit was obliterated by sanding to get rid of the seam... I replaced the destroyed detail with stretched sprue, scribed circles for fuselage tanks, and used thin plastic to replace the Air Air refueling receptacle (I remembered at this stage to get rid of Navy refueling probe door. Finally, the area immediately behind the radome and just before the nose wheel is not a good fit--I was able to save most of the detail by masking around the seam and then smoothing out with Testor's putty thinned out with lacquer thinner. Sorry for the lack of WIP shots--but I had to get putting plastic together--I believe there are a few on this forum who get the idea 😉 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) Getting ready for the next step, natural metal for the aft portion of the Phantom--its seems to be one of the most popular part of any F-4 model for Phantom Phreaks My plan is to use mostly kitchen foil on the airframe, Alclad 2 for castings, jet engines, metal discoloration, jet exhaust, and castings. Quick question for the forum as I begin, I thought the tail cone on USAF F-4's were not painted in SEA, but @f111guru 's awesome photos posted earlier gave me pause. Will be looking @giemme 's build as I believe there are few good photos of this area. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Additionally, @billn53, I believe the kit AIM-9s (photo below) are "B"s not Es--can I get away with using for the 601 in December 1967? If not, I guess I got to buy some Es 🙂 --thanks in advance for thoughts on the missile load out--it seems AIM-9 versions came fast & furious in Vietnam. Speaking of armament, I am going to totally leverage @giemme 's technique on the gun using my mark 1 eyeball, needle, and x-acto blade 🙂 --I don't what impresses me more, the research in that build, or the solutions that are developed to recreate the F-4 in miniature--well done giemme--I hope that airplane still holds a place of honor--it does on my favorites Oh, & since I said I was going to a British subject soon, my wife got me a 1/72 Airfix FG.1--I think it will give the Typhoon a run for the money as the next project! To all thank you for the help, support, and advice--I am glad I found you all at this site--will have to peek over and see if @RidgeRunner is busy putting plastic together 🙂 Edited December 30, 2018 by VT Red Sox Fan content 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, VT Red Sox Fan said: I am glad I found you all at this site--will have to peek over and see if @RidgeRunner Hi Erwin! A short break for Christmas - too much family stuff going on. I will be back after New Year's day. On the build shelf there is my next Thud (F-105B 54-0107) and my first Valom Voodoo, a RF-101C 56-0119. Both in WIP on this forum. Once done I have a F-104A and a F-101A in the plan. Then it'll be the F-102A and a B-57E........ keep up your good work, my friend. Martin Edited December 30, 2018 by RidgeRunner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: Hi Erwin! A short break for Christmas - too much family stuff going on. I will be back after New Year's day. On the build shelf there is my next Thud (F-105B 54-0107) and my first Valom Voodoo, a RF-101C 56-0119. Both in WIP on this forum. Once done I have a F-104A and a F-101A in the plan. Then it'll be the F-102A and a B-57E........ keep up your good work, my friend. Martin Martin, can't wait! Really looking fwd to your B-57E build--I built a slick B-57B before I joined the forum--if interested, I have a few websites I can share--I was primarily interested in the early years of the B-57--if basing your B-57 on the Italeri kit, going for the resin cockpit, seats & SAC landing gear--you won't regret it! Happy New Year & have fun with the family--the "your model looks good" keeps it all real 😉 Edited December 30, 2018 by VT Red Sox Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billn53 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, VT Red Sox Fan said: I believe the kit AIM-9s (photo below) are "B"s not Es--can I get away with using for the 601 in December 1967? Yes, those appear to be B’s The E version began to be delivered in 1967, but I would guess it would take some time to replace the B’s in theater. So I expect using B’s would be ok 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 Thanks @billn53, Happy New Year! Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Great progress, Erwin Happy New Year! Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 On 12/31/2018 at 9:45 AM, giemme said: Great progress, Erwin Happy New Year! Ciao Happy New Year to you giemme! Cheers Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) Hello everyone, hope everyone had great New Year's Day! While welcoming in 2019, I got some work done on the Phantom as my young one old calls it. Today was focused on wheels & struts. While doing my research, I did not see a lot of debate about the F-4D's nose wheel colors. The main gear were a different story. After reviewing at @giemme's build, Detail & Scale F-4 Phantom II, Vol 1, Detail & Scale Vol 43 and this review, https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/33262-phantom-reference-photos/&page=2 (wheel info near the end) I felt the main wheels were a combination of white, steel, and brake dust. I order to replicate this, I used the following paints- Nose strut/wheel Testors Flat white (spray can)/Testors gloss lacquer (spray can), Tamiya rubber black, Testors bottle silver. Main Landing gear--Testors flat white (spray can)/Testors gloss lacquer (spray can), Testors silver. Main wheels, spray can silver (I felt in the end the wheels were lacquered in a fashion similar to F-105s/B-57s), Model Master gun metal for the center (I cheated & brush painted 🙂 )and then used Tamiya's weathering compact of rust, gunmetal & silver to weather--the very outer rim of the exterior portion of the wheel is Testor's white and the tire is Tamiya black. The interior of the air breaks are Model Master Insignia Red airbrushed over a white base coat. No photos yet, but I followed @giemme's technique for the gun pod by using a blade and needle to create the fun ports & vents (not sure I am going to open the other chutes as he did--need to do more research on the gun pod)--cant wait to paint at this point. 🙂 As I start relatively long range planning for decals, I thought I would pitch a question to forum regarding SEA camouflaged F-4s--I always thought they were stencil light, but am I incorrect and should go ahead and invest in an F-4 stencil sheet for this F-4D (66-7601)? I am thinking that she was delivered in SEA camouflage to the USAF by MDD vice a rapid repaint in theater--not sure if that makes a difference, but I know there is Phenomenal Phantom Phantic talent out there that can do circles around me 😉 Thank you all again for your thoughts, comments and ideas on how to make this and other projects better----hope everyone is doing well--thank you all for the inputs--Happy New Year! Erwin Edited January 2, 2019 by VT Red Sox Fan Content 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Nice progress, Erwin! The wheels look spot on! As for the stencils, the info I have are all about F-4s in SEA camo while deployed in Vietnam: as Gene confirmed, they were routinely repainted due to the adverse weather conditions, so the stenciling was minimal and not always completely reinstated. As usual, you should go by photo references of the subject you are modelling, but I understand it's not very easy in this case Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 14 hours ago, giemme said: Nice progress, Erwin! The wheels look spot on! As for the stencils, the info I have are all about F-4s in SEA camo while deployed in Vietnam: as Gene confirmed, they were routinely repainted due to the adverse weather conditions, so the stenciling was minimal and not always completely reinstated. As usual, you should go by photo references of the subject you are modelling, but I understand it's not very easy in this case Ciao Thanks @giemme--had one more question for you and I apologize if I missed a post where you covered. In your build you created a heads up display/back of a wheel well using metal from a can (I think). Was wondering how you made the percise cuts removing the metal from can prior to the detailed bends and indentations. Thank you in advance for any insights or a direction to the best information. Best, Erwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) Kitchen foil & Alclad2 Part 1--I really enjoyed these 2 parts of this this build. I have really enjoyed getting better at using this medium and outlined below is how I recreated the tail on the F-4. I foiled the bottom portion of the tail metal with the matt side of the foil out & the side panels on the fuselage were foiled with the shiny side out. I then used the matt foil on the semi-cricle on the side of the fuselage which supports the stabilator while leaving the rails shiny. The insides of the stabiliators were foiled with the shiny side up for base foil. I then used matt foil for the center foil. The key is use small pieces and line up the foil with panel lines. Once I was happy with the foiling I used a fine sanding stick to gently tone down the shiny areas--I was not shooting for a chrome look but rather a metallic one. I also left the hook on the tail hook assembly unfoiled because I was going to use Alclad 2. More to follow--Erwin Edited January 3, 2019 by VT Red Sox Fan content 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 The next step of the this process was to further tone down the shininess of the metal while creating a hot look covered with jet exhaust. For this I turned to the following Alcad 2 colors: ALC 112 Steel, ALC 102 Duraluninum, ALC 104 Pale Burnt Metal, ALC 403 Transparent Blue, ALC 416 Metal Sepia, and ALC 113 Jet Exhaust. My 1st step was to mask the side panels with Tamiya tape and lightly tone down the shininess further with a dusting of ALC 112 Steel recreate the contrast of the metal panels on the real aircraft. I also masked and painted the small triangle near the stabilators leading edge steel to recreate the metal contrast I see in most Vietnam F-4C photos. I also air brushed ALC 102 Duraluninum on the tail hook's hook. I remember @Gene K constantly discussing @giemme the need to limit weathering, so I decided to call the stabiliators nearly done at this stage--I was tempted to try to recreate some of the scorching more preeminent on these aircraft in later service but leaned against it--I also understand my limitations and did not want to over do what seemed to be turning out great--I am sure you all have been there 🙂. My next step was to airbrush a hint of ALC 104 Pale Burnt Metal around where the burner cans are followed by ALC 403 Transparent Blue on the skin panels roughly along the edge burner cans. I then lightly misted ALC 416 Metal Sepia to tone down contrasts, create a bit of a scale effect while binding the metal shades to together. Finally I used ALC 113 Jet Exhaust to recreate the dark areas sotted out on the tail. Next up, the jet engines. Best, Erwin 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Finally, the engines. For reference I used the Detail & Scale books & leaned heavily on @giemme's build as I worked with Alclad 2. I think this has been my favorite part so far--the burner cans just came to seem alive. I used ALC 112 Steel, ALC 121 Burnt Iron, ALC 121 Burnt Iron, ALC 104 Pale Burnt Metal, ALC 403 Transparent Blue, ALC 416 Metal Sepia, and ALC 113 Jet Exhaust. My 1st step was to take the Aires set and spray all the resin with Tamiya gloss balck--I understand this is really only needed for high shone colors, but I have always had good luck with it. I then leveraged @giemme's build & used Model Master Sky for the exhaust ceramic. Following this, I began the Alclad 2 work with Tamiya steel for the flame holder to build contrast--this seemed reasonable based on my references. The next step was to work on the back of the engine turbine and exhaust cans--theres were painted in ALC 121 Burnt Iron (one of these is the left on the photo of the flame holders--apologies for the bit of masking material that found its way on to it--will post a better pic later). I then lightly sprayed ALC 104 Pale Burnt Metal on the "pipe" portion of the engine exhaust while misting ALC 403 Transparent Blueon the afterburner feathers. I then misted ALC 416 Metal Sepia to bind the work together while reducing contrasts as required. Finally I used ALC 113 Jet Exhaust on the interior portion of the can & feathers, misted over the Model Master Sky exhaust trunks and the ALC 112 Steel flame holders. Saving this step for later, but will paint the rear portions of the exhaust trunks black in the manner as demonstrated by @giemme. Next step will be finishing up the cockpit and weapons--then on to priming! Hope you all enjoy--I appreciate everyone's comments and points for improvement! Best, Erwin 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 6 hours ago, VT Red Sox Fan said: Thanks @giemme--had one more question for you and I apologize if I missed a post where you covered. In your build you created a heads up display/back of a wheel well using metal from a can (I think). Was wondering how you made the percise cuts removing the metal from can prior to the detailed bends and indentations. Thank you in advance for any insights or a direction to the best information. Best, Erwin Hi Erwin: the HUD actually came from an old Eduard PE fret; I did use beer can cutouts for the top of the airbrakes bays, though. I normally use scissors to cut this material, tracing first the cutting lines with a fine black marker and scoring them with an Exacto knife prior to actually cutting. You could also go through the whole thickness just using the knife, if you're patient ... Anyway, I always refine the resulting bits with my Dremel and a sanding disc. HTH Great progress, BTW What did you use to glue the kitchen foil to the plastic, if I may ask? Ciao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 5 hours ago, giemme said: Great progress, BTW Yes, I agree Giorgio! I love that old Monogram kit. Gene K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f111guru Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Here are a few more teasers Again I apologize for the quality. Ron VanDerwarker 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 17 hours ago, giemme said: Hi Erwin: the HUD actually came from an old Eduard PE fret; I did use beer can cutouts for the top of the airbrakes bays, though. I normally use scissors to cut this material, tracing first the cutting lines with a fine black marker and scoring them with an Exacto knife prior to actually cutting. You could also go through the whole thickness just using the knife, if you're patient ... Anyway, I always refine the resulting bits with my Dremel and a sanding disc. HTH Great progress, BTW What did you use to glue the kitchen foil to the plastic, if I may ask? Ciao @giemme thank you for the encouragement--high praise coming from you @Gene K, @billn53, & @f111guru--you guys rock! @Gene K--pls let me know if you have vote in Revell re-releasing the 1/72 F-4C mold since they just released the 1/72 F-4J--a plug for more Revell 1/72 F-105s would appreciated by @RidgeRunner --I think we would all join a push to re-release😉 @giemme--great eye, you caught what I forgot... gluing the foil! I always use Microscale Industries Micro Metal Foil Adhesive--photo below. I have greatly enjoyed moving from fearing foil to fully embracing it--many very talented people, many on this blog, seem to accomplish Natural Metal Finish (NMF) with paint, but my luck has not been has good. I have had a great deal of success of using foil in a hybrid manner with Alcad 2--just remember to mask with wet newspaper vice tape once painted as I have not found any tape that will not damage the painted finish. One of the areas I really like about foil is its ability replicate the grain of metal between panel because it is natural metal. I believe the biggest draw back to foil is compound curve areas--I have been able to get away with Alcad 2 on my projects for typically 2 reasons, 1) the compound curve area was typically cast vice covered in stressed skin & 2) the tonal variation looks natural. Big lesson learned on this build--you will note glue bubbles in some of the foil which is pretty apparent in the close up shots. I believe this is due to me not covering the sticky side with wax paper &/or brushing. I think I have read that you can thin this stuff down w/ Tamiya acrylic thinner (or similar) and airbrush--but cant put my hand on a post at this time. Regardless of whether of not the glue is air brushed, I loved the way this method turned out on my 1/72 F-105s (gun port/each of the exhaust petals is 5 pieces of foil) & the 1/72 B-57 (area behind the cockpit)--overall I am happy with how it turned out on the F-4--I would love to know if there is anyone out there who has had experience air brushing this stuff (I haven't tried my self because I have had the courage to risk my airbrush w/o better info). Thank you all for the questions and pushing me to better-- @giemme I apologize for missing your use of the photo etched HUD but GREATLY appreciate the deep dive into cutting a metal can using a knife--I bet it burns out blades 🙂 Thank you for the opportunity to get this info out.... cheers, Erwin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 12 hours ago, Gene K said: Yes, I agree Giorgio! I love that old Monogram kit. Gene K @Gene K--thank you for the compliment, your awesome reference photos and most importantly your service! Pls let me know if you have the power to encorage Revell to re-release the old Monogram kit 😉 Best Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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