USN WWII Torpedo Colours

[JohnWS]

I'm a little confused trying to determine what colours (colors) I should paint the the Mark 13 torpedos for my late WWII USN Elco PT Boat build.

 

It seems that there are a lot of different opinions about what colours the torpedos were in the 1944-45 time frame,

e.g

- the instructions included with my after market resin torpedos state the torpedo nose cones are light grey & the body should be brass colour (photo).

- another opinion suggests the nose be light (primer) grey, while the body would be bare (steel) metal (photo).

- while another option is the light grey nose with black or oil yellow stained bodies to simulate a protective coating on the bare metal (photo).

- some torpedos were painted the same colours as the PT boat for camouflage purposes, at the discretion of the boat's captain.

- and finally, one source states the late war torpedos were painted all black (training torpedos had yellow nose cones & black bodies).

 

I'm leaning towards light grey and brass/oil yellow for my torpedos, but was wondering is anyone here has thoughts or references about what the Mark 13 torpedo colours should be?

 

Thanks.

 

John

[longshanks]

Hi John

 

I was under the impression that torpedo bodies were made of bronze, hence brass colouring. Would the choice of material be to do with magnetic influence?

 

Did find this but lack the will power to read through

https://maritime.org/doc/jolie/part1.htm

 

HTH

 

Kev

[Arjan]

Hi John, I love your build ! I definitely prefer grey PT boats to green ones. I think the second pic you posted (location Florida) might actually show a training torpedo. Looks as if the nose cone has a light yellowish hue. Here's another nice pic :

 

https://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=25107

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

[Courageous]

12 hours ago, JohnWS said:

what the Mark 13 torpedo colours should be?

I understand your dilemma John 

3 hours ago, longshanks said:

lack the will power to read through

I read the section the Mk13 and no references were made on colour. From my perspective, I would have thought that they would've been painted due to the environment they are in.

I found this

 

Stuart

[JohnWS]

5 hours ago, longshanks said:

Hi John

 

I was under the impression that torpedo bodies were made of bronze, hence brass colouring. Would the choice of material be to do with magnetic influence?

 

Did find this but lack the will power to read through

https://maritime.org/doc/jolie/part1.htm

 

HTH

 

Kev

Thanks Kev.  The bronze bodies were my understanding as well ... until I started researching.  On some web forums ex-torpedo men described the torpedos as having bare steel bodies coated with an anti-corrosive material. Painting them brass, if for no other reason, would look like either a bronze body or a steel body coated with a yellow anti-corrosive, plus my wife says it would brighten up the model. 

2 hours ago, Arjan said:

Hi John, I love your build ! I definitely prefer grey PT boats to green ones. I think the second pic you posted (location Florida) might actually show a training torpedo. Looks as if the nose cone has a light yellowish hue. Here's another nice pic :

 

https://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=25107

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

Thanks Arjan for your comments & the link.  There's a lot of nice looking green PT models out there, but I like the grey as well.  My boat (620) was one of the last PT boats to survive both WWII & the Korean War, and was scrapped in the early 1960's.  It had the grey paint scheme for its post WWII service.

2 hours ago, Courageous said:

I understand your dilemma John 

I read the section the Mk13 and no references were made on colour. From my perspective, I would have thought that they would've been painted due to the environment they are in.

I found this

 

Stuart

Thanks Stuart.   It looks like the torpedos were treated as consumables and not a lot of care was taken to protect them after the use of torpedo tubes was discontinued.  Interestingly, many of the USN PT boats never fired their torpedos, using their guns instead for close range attacks & defence.  Some torpedos were painted overall, but it appears that was at the discretion of the boats' captains (pusser types, I guess ).

 

John

[JohnWS]

I found a number of photos (linked below) that appear to confirm that the Mark 13 torpedos had a bronze/brass coloured body and grey nose cone. 

 

Posted on the PT Boat 796 Display Web Page.

 

Rear View

 

Propellers

 

Body

 

Body #2

 

Grey Nose Cone/Warhead

 

 

[longshanks]

Good find

 

Kev

 

[Arjan]

While going through a load of threads on the ptboat forum looking for the right colours for  Ron 34/35 boats I happened across a thread on torp colours.  Apparently the bodies were made of steel after all :

 

http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=1508&pg=47&sc=20&x=0

 

I like the pic showing a face painted on the warhead.

 

I would like to build a 1/35 ETO PT boat (probably PT 513) and I'm looking for a colour illustration of the camo scheme. I'm surprised I haven't been able to find any ETO PT boat  builds on the internet I could use as reference. Perhaps you know a useful build thread ? According to Al Ross MS 13 haze grey and deck blue  were probably used. 

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

[mdesaxe]

I don't know whether it matters or not but that is not a live warhead. The giveaway is the lifting eye in place of the pistol-arming spinner.

[dnl42]

John,

 

Do you have Allied Torpedo Boats by John Lambert and Les Brown? Two color photos on page 80 show torpedoes. The photo of PT 134, in Cebu City March '45 looks to be a grease-coated steel body with a dark grey warhead. A late '44 photo in FL shows a training sortie with the same body but a light (white?) warhead on a Mk 13 torpedo. Page 106 shows PT 220 with a white warhead and dark body. Page 110 has 3 B&W photos, PT 490 and PT 223 appear to be consistent with the pt 134 photo while PT 596 appears to have a white warhead. In particular, all three show a blotchy dark body, which would be consistent with grease-coated metal. Also similar is the top photo of PT 77 on page 119

FWIW, photos of British torpedoes also appear to have a dark grey warhead and dark body.

 

Here's a scan of an image from "BATTLE STATIONS! Your Navy in Action", 1946, that has the same appearance as the PT 134 photo.

 

HTH

-- 

dnl

[JohnWS]

Thanks everyone for sharing your comments & references.

 

16 hours ago, Arjan said:

... Apparently the bodies were made of steel after all :

 

http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=1508&pg=47&sc=20&x=0

 

...I would like to build a 1/35 ETO PT boat (probably PT 513) and I'm looking for a colour illustration of the camo scheme. I'm surprised I haven't been able to find any ETO PT boat  builds on the internet I could use as reference. Perhaps you know a useful build thread ? According to Al Ross MS 13 haze grey and deck blue  were probably used. ...

Great reference material, Arjen.

 

I did a search on the rust inhibitor Cosmoline used to coat the torpedos.  It's yellow colour gives steel a brass look.  It's still used for protecting firearms and machined parts today.

 

Also, here's a link to the Italeri instructions for their 1/35 Elco model.  There's lots of good photos & a camo paint scheme is illustrated on the last few pages.

http://www.plasticandplasters.com/Instructions/manuals/italeri-instructions-5602a.pdf

You can try searching specifically for the Italeri 1/35 PT Boat builds.  There's quite a few on the Net.

 

Hope this helps.

10 hours ago, dnl42 said:

... Do you have Allied Torpedo Boats by John Lambert and Les Brown? Two color photos on page 80 show torpedoes. The photo of PT 134, in Cebu City March '45 looks to be a grease-coated steel body with a dark grey warhead. A late '44 photo in FL shows a training sortie with the same body but a light (white?) warhead on a Mk 13 torpedo. Page 106 shows PT 220 with a white warhead and dark body. Page 110 has 3 B&W photos, PT 490 and PT 223 appear to be consistent with the pt 134 photo while PT 596 appears to have a white warhead. In particular, all three show a blotchy dark body, which would be consistent with grease-coated metal. Also similar is the top photo of PT 77 on page 119 ...

Yes, I have an electronic copy of the book.  Thanks for reminding me. 

 

Soooo, I guess I'm going to have to do another flip-flop on the torpedo body from bronze to steel. 

 

Here's a summary of how I think I'm going to proceed (for now):

- torpedo body is yellow(ish) due to the Cosmoline rust inhibitor coating.  I'll try experimenting with painting the body a steel colour with a transparent yellow top coat.  If that doesn't work, maybe try weathered brass.

- torpedo warhead will be primer grey.

- propellers will be brass (brass PE props are included with the Attack Squadron torpedo kits).

 

Thanks again everyone for replying to my query.

 

John

Edited December 19, 2018 by JohnWS

[longshanks]

3 hours ago, JohnWS said:

propellers will be brass

 

Phosphor bronze surely ??  

 

Brass would snap/bend as soon as you started the engines . . . .

 

 

Kev

[JohnWS]

50 minutes ago, longshanks said:

 

Phosphor bronze surely ??  

 

Brass would snap/bend as soon as you started the engines . . . .

 

 

Kev

Picky, picky!  You're right, or course.

 

Brass will be the colour of the props.

 

As always, I appreciate your comments Kev. Thank you!