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HobbyBoss Panzer IV B


Scargsy

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Hi all,

 

So I thought I'd start a thread for my build - I'm intending to build this (once it arrives):

32443194618_9df9bbcbec_z.jpg

HobbyBoss Panzer IV B, kit no. 80131

I've also got some crew as I think it helps with the scale, though I'm not sure about my painting skills:

46264936022_f7636dcaec.jpg

 

Depending on time, etc. I was thinking I might make a little diorama with some "Battle of France" themed stuff - with some French infantry / AFV, but that will depend on how much of a glue bomb the Panzer turns into :)

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Hi Scargsy and welcome to Britmodeller. Looks like that should be an excellent project. As far as I remember, the yellow edged HB boxes usually contain kits that were originally manufactured by a company called Tristar. They were supposed to be good kits - I don’t know for sure that yours is but hopefully you will have a fun build!

If you have any questions please feel free to ask and I'm sure there will be plenty of people able to offer answers.

Kind regards,

Stix

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I built a couple of tristar models waaaay back when in 52 and as far as I can recall they were good kits. Your planned build looks like a good idea I think I will pull up a chair if you dont mind. 

 

Regards:

Shaun 

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So it's arrived and started.

Yes this is it appears a reboxed Tristar kit (judging by the Tristar text so on some of the sprues).

 

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I have to say the kit does seem very complicated (lots of frustratingly tiny bits), independent track links... 

46335493152_e034329a9e_z.jpg

- not sure how I feel about that, I'll let you know how I get on!

There's also some worrying looking bits in the instructions - any tips on how to bend plastic (or even bends as the instructions state), can I soften it somehow (hot water?) direct heat/flame and I usually find everything going too gooey.

46335489832_dca08f98e2_z.jpg

The turret interior seems to have quite a lot of detail too...

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Although I'm concerned that those 3 tiny 'legs' might be a bit flimsy. There isn't any driver interior detail, though all the hatches seem to come with interior handles.

46386505941_b643fe2a7c_z.jpg

 

 One thing I'm wondering (and can't seem to find much in the way of info on the internet) is could the driver actually drive with his head out of the hatch? I plan on putting a driver figure in (which I imagine would block most of the opening). From images I've seen online the drivers seat seems to be some rather basic canvas/tubualar steel thing that's fixed but maybe in 'combat' mode he's ducked down/leaning forward with his face planted into the viewport? Or sitting on the seat back/some other part would be possible to have your head out of the hatch and the controls are still accessible?

 

The Tamiya crew are quite impressive (if expensive for a few plastic men) - they come with decals for the insignias, epaulettes, etc. a colour paint guide and the box also contains extra info on the various rank markings and insignia - though I imagine it's going to be somewhat difficult to fix such tiny decals (easier than trying to paint them I guess).

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So I've cracked on with the build (do I need to do full sprue photos? - there's lots (and lots of multiples!)

 

Starting with the road wheels - these come with seperate pieces to model the rubber (not made of rubber though) - seems a bit faffy to me, but they fitted snuggly - could possibly have been left without glue! They even have the Continental logo/name and markings on them, though there is a bit of 'flash' or whatever it's called on the inside of the road wheels.

46386503601_eb2484747c_z.jpg

 

32 wheels later I thought I'd skip ahead whilst the glue dried fully and started on the tub/lower hull. This was somewhat less of a perfect fit and one of those jobs where you wish you had an extra hand, but after a bit of trial fitting and examining what's what it appears the main lower hull part (the sides are seperate) must have warped somehow (in the box or manufacturing), so I installed the vertical supports (which have neat/fairly tight locking points on both the sides and base) and the sides to them - only gluing the sides to the base between the two vertical support sections.

 

46386501811_33fb04b5f0_z.jpg46335491372_43f4df1f7a_z.jpg

 

Once the glue had dried on the side/support/base I applied some glue to the section forward of the supports and held the base tightly in place whilst it dried to allow it to conform to the correct shape. The section to the rear I have yet to do the same to, since it's not quite as apparent as to how far to bend it (something odd with the rear uprights not snuggly fitting and what appear to be connection points (raised bars) being a few mm from where I'd expect them, the rear plate seems to also have these that don't quite line up. I plan to glue and hold it all in place - I think the rear plate should line up to some parts that look like reinforcement trianglulation parts (on the real thing) attached to the sides.

 

46335492252_6e73503a3b_z.jpg

I've made a start on 4 of the 8 suspension/bogeys - a word of warning to anyone doing this build later - these are all moveable/articulating parts but I found that it's easier to attach the leaf spring part to that sub-assembly later, in order to ensure that it correctly lines up (initially gluing the 2 half parts that it threads into together as a sub-assembly first (S-12 and S-13 in the diagram), this also helps to stop any glue leaking and attaching everything together. Given I'm not overly familiar with the suspension bits/orientation - I decided to use a permanent marker and write L + R on the back of the bogey bits so I don't confuse them later. I also dry-fitted the bogey bits to the hull and 'aligned' the suspension parts to be as close to horizontal as possible, just incase my gluing skills left something to be desired and the things no longer articulated. There seems to be multiple different 'face' plates to select from (see image above) however there's little info I could find on which version to use, though the parts will probably not be visible in the final built kit. 

 

I'll post some more images tomorrow, hopefully get the hull connected together and start on the sprockets, though they appear to have some tiny individual nuts that need gluing onto the hub/hull part!

 

Edited by Scargsy
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Hi Scargsy I have a few books on the said subject and will have a gander relating to the drivers head story. As far as the plastic bending goes you could do it with very hot water (I always burn my hands doing so) or possibly try suspending the part above a hot soldering iron and wait for it to go soft. The safer option fir the plastic at least is obviously the hot water route. 

HTH

 

Regards:

Shaun 

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7 hours ago, Scargsy said:

 

 

 

 

Starting with the road wheels - these come with seperate pieces to model the rubber (not made of rubber though) - seems a bit faffy to me, but they fitted snuggly - could possibly have been left without glue! They even have the Continental logo/name and markings on them, though there is a bit of 'flash' or whatever it's called on the inside of the road wheels.

46386503601_eb2484747c_z.jpg

 

32 wheels later I thought I'd skip ahead whilst the glue dried fully and started on the tub/lower hull. This was somewhat less of a perfect fit and one of those jobs where you wish you had an extra hand, but after a bit of trial fitting and examining what's what it appears the main lower hull part (the sides are seperate) must have warped somehow (in the box or manufacturing), so I installed the vertical supports (which have neat/fairly tight locking points on both the sides and base) and the sides to them - only gluing the sides to the base between the two vertical support sections.

 

46386501811_33fb04b5f0_z.jpg46335491372_43f4df1f7a_z.jpg

 

Once the glue had dried on the side/support/base I applied some glue to the section forward of the supports and held the base tightly in place whilst it dried to allow it to conform to the correct shape. The section to the rear I have yet to do the same to, since it's not quite as apparent as to how far to bend it (something odd with the rear uprights not snuggly fitting and what appear to be connection points (raised bars) being a few mm from where I'd expect them, the rear plate seems to also have these that don't quite line up. I plan to glue and hold it all in place - I think the rear plate should line up to some parts that look like reinforcement trianglulation parts (on the real thing) attached to the sides.

 

Hi there, my experience of Tristar kits was generally good, although I have their Panzer IV Ausf C and the upper hull was warped in that too, to the point that the kit is resting in my box of doom, waiting for me to revive it. Looks to me you have done a good job sorting it out though!

Point on the 'tyres' they do this separate to ease painting, I have a tristar 38(t) on the go at the minute and  it does help with painting, but I do agree it is a bit of a faff! I prefer to mask the road wheels where I can, much easier and straightforward!

Edited by sampanzer
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I have gone through about six books looking for a picture of a drivers head poking out of his hatch and have found some but only on standing vehicles the moving ones I saw a lot of open hatches but no heads poking out. So hazarding a guess here I would say that unless you were a VERY tall driver your head would definately not poke out whilst driving the tank. 

HTH

 

REGARDS:

Shaun 

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What a great looking kit.

 

If those three 'legs' in the turret are a bit flimsly, they could potentially be replaced with wire? I've found paperclips to be very useful for things like this. Perhaps not 100% exact shape but far more durable.

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Good to see you are underway but, like you say, it look quite complicated in places and the fit obviously isn't perfect in places. I'm sure you be able to knock it into shape! :fight:

Kind regards,

Stix

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Here's a shot of all the sprues (well some are multiples in the bags, but each sprue type is individually bagged).

46410007631_e5f91c39ba_z.jpg

 

So the wheel/suspension work continues...

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Only one sprocket, the return rollers and the caps on the road wheels left to do (after I took this photo). So far I seem to have managed to not gunk up any of the moving parts which is a suprise!

The idler wheels I had a few issues with - firstly there's a second (unused) set on sprocket sprue which I almost accidentally used, then when I found the parts they don't actually go together very well - there's a pin one half/hole in the ring the other - to make the pieces lock together correctly, however the 'spokes' don't correctly line up when in that position.

 

Here's a shot of some of the tiny bolt heads (well that's what I think they are)...

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I'm not sure if I'm actually going to attempt these or not - even if I manage to neatly cut them off the sprues, I've no idea how I could maneuver them around with glue into place - my tweezers are a bit big and might ping them off, maybe I could stick them into something else (blu-tac or tape?) temporarily, to aid movement/placement. I actually thought when I first looked at the sprues that the bits they're on were some modelled shells with the actual parts being some moulding flash!

 

Edited by Scargsy
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Scargsy you are cracking on nicely. Use bluetac tapered to a point to hold on to the bolt heads that is the norm when fitting such small parts also press the sprue down into a glob of the stuff when cutting the bolts out so that they dont end up feeding the carpet monster. HTH

 

Regards:

Shaun 

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Hi Scargsy, and welcome to BM and to the better part of the site - the AFV forum!

 

Despite the issues, I think that kit is great and will look ace when finished. Nice progress on something that will (because of the issues) raise your skill levels! That can't be a bad thing.

 

With regards to the bending of plastic parts, I had to make some replacement turret lifting rings for my recent Sherman Easy Eight. Whilst I tried melting, stretching and bending sprues to some degree of success, it was all a bit hit or miss, due to the inherent vagaries of candle flame and the uneven heating of progressively stretched sprue.

 

What I did then (as an experiment) was to use the candle's melted wax as the heating 'element', providing a more consistent and 'all encompassing' source of heat. 

 

I melted candle wax into a metal bottle-lid (a tobacco tin would have been good for larger parts) and kept the wax molten by placing the lid over a candle. I then held the length of sprue with a pair of pliers, dunked it into the wax and allowed it to soak up the heat evenly, and throughout. (you can see the plastic 'bloat' and go shiny) I then grabbed the other end with a second pair of pliers and tried to stretch the sprue whilst still in the wax. When soft enough to stretch, I'd remove the sprue and continue to stretch and bend it into the required shape. By repeated soaking in the wax and cooling in between, I was able to more gradually form the plastic into shape, and not have to rely on luck. At the final stage, where I needed to bend the ring so as to be slightly asymmetrical, I took the soft part and bent it around the 'blank' part of a needle file.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Rearguards,

Badder

Edited by Badder
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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for the suggestions regarding the bending and the small parts, I'll give those techniques a try when the time comes.

 

Wheels

 

So I cracked on with all the wheels which are now fitted - with the exception of the idler wheels, I'm unsure what angle to mount them at (the dog leg / split axle doesn't lock at any specific point), though I may leave this till I actually fit the tracks, to allow some wiggle room getting them on and also allowing the track tension to be somewhat tweaked with the angle. I'm unsure whether these things are 'sprung' on the real vehicle or at least adjustable to control track tension?

 

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Front Lower Hull

 

Once I got to instruction 3, I decided to go 'off piste' there are some tiny parts which I feared might foul the extra armour plate to be added in instruction 4, so decided to install that first. I've also decided that in general I'll build up the main structural elements first then go back and add the details later.

 

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Rear Lower Hull

 

I added the rear plate, having to hold it in place as best I could, whilst the glue set to get around the lower tub/plate warping. Unfortuanately I had a bit of an excessive glue/leak and messed it up further by trying to mop the excess up with a tissue which then stuck to the glue! In the photos you can see some residue - after a quick sanding. Unfortunately it didn't perfectly align (as can be seen later once the upper hull was added) but some filler will sort that.

 

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Upper Hull

 

Whilst the upper hull is quite nicely detailed I found a lot of flash - especially where the front and side armour plates mount, initially I was sanding the plates down to fit before I realized the alignment 'nubs' were fouling on the flash. After a bit of cleanup they went on quite nicely, though as can be seen there were some gaps. 

Then came the question of how to fill/sand these, since they're probably individual plates welded together on the real vehicle (so some kind of visual edges/welds should be visible as I found on some source videos) so I went for some subtle filling and sanding - not trying to make perfectly flat/smooth edges.

 

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The underside of the upper hull is quite rough, lots of ejector pin marks, some under the mud/track guards - hopefully not too visible when the tracks are fitted.

The engine vents / rear mudguard parts were a bit of a pain to fit, there's a small connection lip where the two fit together (though it's not very tight) and there are no locator pins, etc. where the vent parts fit into the top hull part. I ended up having to do lots of dry fittings and eventually use some slow setting glue and dry fit the upper and lower hulls whilst it set to try and ensure everything was well aligned.

 

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Once the front glacis was installed, I dry fitted the upper and lower hull parts and added some filler front and back - there was a gap at the rear due to bad gluing/fitting of the lower rear plate, unfortuantely I then seperated the pieces before it was fully dried and some has snapped away as I'd planned to have the driver/radio operator window ports open. I had no idea how I'd manage to get the clear parts in but was planning to fit them later via the hatches, but fate intervened and the actual small window offset parts snapped when I was trying to seperate them from the sprue so I'll now go for the closed look.

 

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(Filler needs maybe a bit more and some cleanup though that area behind the exhaust can possibly look gunky on the final model.)

 

The front fender/mud-guard segments were a bit tricky - comprising 3 parts per side but some slow setting glue and attaching them then dry fitting the upper/lower hulls together and tweaking the positions before the glue dried did the trick. Still needs a bit of filler between the upper glacis and inner wings but I'll add that post gluing the top/bottom hull. The rear mudguard ends I'll add post that point too.

 

Exhaust

 

After fitting the 2 main exhaust halves the seam needed sanding out though it still looked a bit obvious so I took out the craft knife - though that left some flat spots so I thought I'd make a feature of it and make some dings and such like - since the silencer can would just be a thin steel exterior.

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Tracks

 

Absolute nightmare, not sure if it's my technique or the moulding but I couldn't seem to get the individual links together in lengths of more than say 4 pieces together before they snapped and then they seemed to be damaged, not wanting to fit together. The missus seeing me getting frustrated had a go and managed to get some lengths of about 10 bits before they fell apart. Give me some rubber bands any day or at least length and links or whatever they're called.

I've given up with these and ordered some metal 'easy link' type after market bits, though as a tight Northerner by origin, I must say they're rather pricey - I could almost buy 2 vintage Tamiya Panzer IV kits for the money; one to build, the other just for the rubber bands! Lets hope they work once they arrive.

 

One thing I'm having issue with is seeing how exactly the tracks are 'handed'? Also on my kit the wheels appear to have some camber (not truely vertical up/down, seem to be splayed outwards slightly towards the bottom) and I noticed the suspension 'bump stops' on this kit are only present for the very front and very rear of the suspension unlike per bogey as I see in other kits - not sure if that's a historically accurate detail for the B model or an oversight in the kit.

 

Turret and Gun

 

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The turret parts went together quite nicely, though I've had a few issues:
1) Firstly the gun, even though short is made of a few pieces and took a while to get the bits to be aligned even with the slow setting glue (I've decided to go for the version with the ariel/antenna guide bar but I'll fit that later). 

2) One thing I take issue with is the instructions don't often show the final fit/position of the elements meaning a bit of guess work - for the gun interior there's what appears to be a modelled 'basket' below the breach - I imagine to catch the spent shells. This has one tapered side and one straight edged - I've fitted it as per what I think it shows in the instructions (tapered edge towards the back) but on thinking about it, surely it should be the other way around? Not a massive issue - I'm skipping a lot of the interior detail as it won't be visible and only adding some of these bits to help counter weight the gun, hence rather little cleanup on these bits.

3) As per the above instruction issues, there are some small triangular bits for the front of the turret, these need to be attached under rather than on-top of the front/side armour.

4) Cupola - this was a bit of a pain, the exterior bits are comprised of 10 pieces, but these are cut from the sprue at what form the junctions between them, I think I've cut them a little too short (after sanding the cut points) so the gaps are a little wide.

5) The suggested part for the small flap/part behind the main plate on the turret top seemed wrong, so I substituted it for another where the hinges better aligned.

 

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Next I guess will be sealing the upper and lower hull/filling, the tracks (once they arrive) and the crew - I've left the radio-op's hatch un-attached as I may have him poking out and plan to have the commander out of the top.

 

Starting to look like a tank...

45851047794_f8b1ac4772_z.jpg

Edited by Scargsy
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Looks like this one is a bit more of a difficult build than it looked to be to start with! It's starting to look the part now though, thanks to your efforts! :thumbsup:

Kind regards, 

Stix

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK so a little update from me...

 

So I ordered some Easy Metal Link tracks - unfortunately they didn't fit (40cm versions for later IVs!!!) though they look great and go together fast and easy - more on these later. I did consider trying to modify the drive wheels (slicing them off and replacing them or fitting some shims to widen them) but I figured that's maybe beyond my skill level and it would end up with me throwing the broken bits into a box, never to see the light of day again.

So instead I ended up splurging some more cash (urgh) on some 36cm Friulmodel tracks and tools - which thankfully do fit the sprocket/drive wheels perfectly, though I was initially put off by the apparent fiddliness of assembling them (micro drill-bit drilling out both sides of each link and then wiring and gluing them).

 

I did find a few YouTube vids on people putting them together including a guy using brass pins and hammering them in fast, that looked good but he was using somewhat larger Panther tracks and these tiny things I didn't think these would handle that kind of treatment.

 

Whilst the track construction is fiddly and time consuming, with practice (try 230 links!) the manual dexterity for the task does improve over time (also I guess familiarity with how much pressure to apply, etc.) My method was to bore out the pin holes using a 0.4mm drill bit in a pin-vice as advised but doing so over a small bowl (to catch any tiny metal bits - since they don't specify if this white metal contains lead or not). A bit of fiddling initially to set the max length of the bit (so it goes through but not completely out the other side). Once all the links were bored out (keeping the left and right links seperate - though the difference seems to only be the side the pins go in), I washed the parts, before some light trimming of the flash with a sharp knife - I also found a small ball of tacky tape (sticky side out) handy for this - to pick up the metal off cuts post cutting so they don't end up everywhere. There's also the odd bit of flash in the track 'horns' but this can easily be poked out with a toothpick. Then onto assembling, this I didn't find too taxing - though it's worth holding the wire with the wire-cutters and wiggling it in a bit and flexing the joint to ensure it's got right through before trimming to length. I initially built them up in lengths of 10 then 20, then attached them together in 40 lengths, 80 then tried the 98 suggested for the plastic kit links (keeping the last few pins long and un-glued before making a final length decision) - it didn't quite fit so I went with 101 as a final count.

 

Whilst I didn't use the YouTuber's technique I did borrow his PE-bender trick, I tried attaching like that but it was too fiddly, though I found it a great tool for holding a run of say 20, to allow the pins to be gently tapped in and then glued one after another, without the track wibbling around everywhere.

 

One thing to note is they are quite easy to bend out of shape if you apply too much pressure once all the way through whilst drilling, though being metal it is possible to reshape them somewhat, plus they do have some spares!

 

46693037282_c52030820f_z.jpg

 

Here's the two 101 track links all assembled.

 

Other progress...

So I built up the Tamiya crew, even though as a tight Yorkshireman by birth I think they're expensive, I have to say they are some nice pieces of styrene and went together well, with very little if any flash, filling or sanding needed and plenty of detail. I've still to fit binoculars and headsets, but will probably paint them seperately before fitting.

 

Here's the radio op and commander I've chosen from the set to add...

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Here's the full set of crew in the kit built up...

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Rear view shows only one major issue on one kneeling figure I had to fill (though that might be more to do with my over zealous sanding).

31804336507_5ef98e08cc_z.jpg

 

The eagle eyed maybe able to notice I've fitted a few more pieces (driver and radio op armour plates), though I'm rapidly approaching my general crunch point of trying to decide what bits to fit before painting and what to try and paint first before fitting! Though events may have overtaken me, some small tracked vehicles have been attacking my paint room (read drafty conservatory) and it now looks like this...

39780611213_2b4fc8312c_z.jpg

- actually that was a last week, it's significantly more of a hole now, with added dust everywhere, so the painting might need to wait!

 

But, that leads me onto another point...

So I bought some non fitting tracks, so what's a boy to do but... order another kit to fit them! So I decided to grab a cheap, old moulding, small parts kit (to keep me sane between trying to glue all the tiny detail bits left on this one) and bought myself a Tamiya Stug IV. However, as with all such things those drive/sprocket wheels are slightly too large - I did try a bit of fettling on the drive wheels so far to fit but no joy, however I've managed to find some after-market (Friulmodel) drive wheels that fit the tracks, now how to fit them to the kit... don't worry I'll start a new thread for that one. (I dunno you don't build any 1/35 armour or German armour kits for over 20 years then find yourself with 2 on the go!) :)

 

Edited by Scargsy
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Hi Scargsy. Great to see more progress and well done with the tracks. And those figures look like they are going to be very impressive! :thumbsup:

Kind regards,

Stix

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  • 1 month later...

So here's where I'm at (final day of group build so it won't make the gallery):

 

33528948498_5bb1d3faf3_z.jpg

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Primer coat on, not 100% coverage but good enough for my standards, only the 2nd model I've airbrushed so far (first was a 1/72 Harrier). Using Zero Paints Light Grey Primer - it goes on great, dries fast and sticks hard (is sandable) but is some evil chemical concoction (lacquer based) as is their airbrush cleaner for it (face mask needed). I went with the lacquer primer as there's some metal PE parts and I'm not sure if the acrylic type primers would adhere well.

 

I'm planning on trying some Vallejo stuff for the actual paint job, which is water based so should be a little less toxic hopefully!

 

Here's some photos of the bits all together (tracks on, etc.) prior to paint...

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The PE bits (especially the little chains) tested my patience - I really dislike using super-glue (usually stick myself to everything), there were some even smaller chains for each of the smoke grenade/candles on the back but I've left them off to save my sanity! Lots of other tiny fiddly bits on this kit too, that were rather annoying to get on - like all the attachments to hold the pioneer tools on, there's even tiny latches or whatever in PE to stick on but that was beyond my threshold for 'fun' :)

 

Been a fun build, just need to finish the painting some time!

Edited by Scargsy
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Hi Scargsy. Well it is looking excellent and I'm glad it was fun (well apart from some of the PE obviously!) If you do keep building it - and I hope you do - post the progress here and I will keep following how it's going. I'm looking forward seeing how it turns out. I have an idea of starting a 'Didn't quite get it finished in time' Gallery so that visitors to the GB can quickly see any completed builds - including those that didn't make it into the voting Gallery.

Kind regards,

Stix

 

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OK so a week and a bit past the deadline(!) here's my Panzer - still almost finished (needs clear parts - lenses, vision blocks and there's some tiny decals for the crew), though I'm going to call time on it for now, kind of making things worse the more I try to do.

 

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Whilst there's lots of things I think I could have done better I'm pleased with the results - first time in 20+ years doing a 1/35 AFV, first Panzergrau, first try at weathering and only the second model I've tried airbrushing - the wet on wet colour mixing turned out well, though I went a few shades too light, shoved a fingerprint into it and got some drizzle drops in the paint with my impatience moving it from the garage paint-shop to the house! (Hopefully covered up well though).

 

Anyhow thanks for a fun group build, taking me out of my comfort zone and getting me to try new things. :)

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