Badder Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 Sadly, no progress on the painting front as family got in the way. Hopefully I will get some done in the morning before more family get in the way. The parts to be painted have all been given a good wash and brush to remove the crud and have been laid out ready for painting. I plan to do some extensive chipping on the interior, and the gun especially, but I won't be using chipping fluid. I will be chipping by brush The interior then, will get a base coat of XF60 to start with. I will then be looking to fade, weather and chip using acrylic inks. I've not used acrylic inks to weather a dark yellow base before, so there could be some fun and games!!!! TFL Badder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewy Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I'm liking the sound of this next bit, I reckon chipping by brush is best on armour, looking forward to it badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 (edited) This morning I got my new airbrush out to give the interior components a spray with XF60. I got my paints box out and low and behold, the only jar of XF60 I had was virtually empty - the kind of empty where one has poured a bit of thinners in there just to dissolve the last of the gunge. Well, that was a bummer. I'm NOT going into town at this time of year, just to get a jar of paint. Luckily, I remembered that I'd not long ago bought a MIG 1945 Late German Set, which contains 6 bottles of acrylic paint for late German camo schemes. The set proclaims to be aimed at Wargamers, but I don't see why it shouldn't be useful for us 'proper' model-makers. There are two bottles of Dunkelgelb in the set - what I will call a 'standard' and a 'faded'. Well, I sprayed the components with the 'standard' and I must say the stuff sprayed nicely, straight from the bottle. It may not be XF60, but it's close, and anyway, I will be dirtying things up with washes, so the planned XF60 colour would have changed anyway. So, the components that make up the interior have been sprayed and have dried quickly. With the fighting compartment dry-constructed, I am going to give it all a brief downwards spray with the 'faded' Dunkelgelb, lightening the horiztonal panels and catching the edges of vertical shelves etc. Hopefully this will replicate fading due to exposure, and increase the contrast with the shaded areas. TFL Badder Edited December 23, 2018 by Badder 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 (edited) Not sure that made much difference, but it's there. Next, some acrylic ink washes...... TFL Badder Edited December 23, 2018 by Badder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Hi Badder. Wow you have been making lots of progress - especially with those pesky ejector pin marks! And it's good to see some paint going on. Looking forward to more. Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetifan Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 interesting to see how you rate the Mig vs Tamiya for spraying. I have used the Mig paints and the dropper bottle really makes using them clean and easy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewy Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Tidy bit of building badder, what have you thinned the mig paint with, I've recently used these for the first time and I used Mr hobby lacquer thinners, I don't know how well they work with anything else yet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatfingers Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Aye up Badder. Some nice work going on here and your charging ahead with this. Regards Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted December 24, 2018 Author Share Posted December 24, 2018 8 hours ago, PlaStix said: Hi Badder. Wow you have been making lots of progress - especially with those pesky ejector pin marks! And it's good to see some paint going on. Looking forward to more. Kind regards, Stix Hi Stix, It's been a long day of almost continous fiddling about. First off, after the base coat, I discovered a couple of pin marks in the frontal superstructure where there's a bit of a double-skin. I'd failed to see one either side of where the gun mantlet sits. Those can be removed fairly easily when I get to the weathering of that part. A couple of the pin marks I thought I had done a good job of removing, have turned out not to have been removed so goodly after all. But I am probably going to leave them and rely on paint to hide them. At the moment they show up because of a lighter ring around them where I did a bit of dry brushing. As for the general painting and weathering of the fighting compartment interior, it hasn't been a straighforward job..... see below! Rearguards, Badder 7 hours ago, Yetifan said: interesting to see how you rate the Mig vs Tamiya for spraying. I have used the Mig paints and the dropper bottle really makes using them clean and easy. Hi Yetifan, Yes, the rattler in the bottle comes in handy. I'm not a fan of the nozzle though as it means it's impossible to 're-cant' any unused paint back into the bottle unless one gets the nozzle off. And that's messy! One thing I have learned is not to drop a blob of it directly onto a painted part (something I often do when applying washes) The paint will create a nice wash when a water-loaded brush is wiped over it, but the MIG stuff kinda 'bleaches' the underlying paint. It's not bleaching really, but I placed a drop of light dark yellow on top of a dark dark yellow and even though I immediately brushed over the drop with water, the underlying dark yellow had a spot of light yellow 'bleached' into it and this was impossible to remove. I then had to reapply dark yellow to get rid of the mark. Still, the stuff does spray well with no need for any kind of thinner. I was using a 0.4 needle though. Rearguards, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted December 24, 2018 Author Share Posted December 24, 2018 6 hours ago, Hewy said: Tidy bit of building badder, what have you thinned the mig paint with, I've recently used these for the first time and I used Mr hobby lacquer thinners, I don't know how well they work with anything else yet Hi Glynn, Thanks. With regards to the MIG paint set I was using, it's made up of water soluble acrylics. I used it straight out of the bottle with a 0.4 needle. I also used the stuff for washes, and just added water. That worked just fine. Rearguards, Badder 3 hours ago, fatfingers said: Aye up Badder. Some nice work going on here and your charging ahead with this. Regards Steve Thanks Steve, But it all slowed down with the weathering of the components! I've basically been at it all day and will probably spend a few more days yet, just on the fighting compartment! Rearguards, Badder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted December 24, 2018 Author Share Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) Grrrrrrrrrr! Where's the post gone???? Why hasn't it been saved by BM? I am NOT re-typing those 8 paragraphs again - not at this time of night! 25 mins of my life wasted! Basically, I had problems because I've not weathered dark yellow for a long time, and certainly never with acrylic inks. So, I've had to experiment with ink colours and re-learn how to do it As well as this, the MIG paint, which I was 'forced' to use, dried with a satin/gloss finish, meaning that my usual 'order of painting' was disrupted. I usually like to apply acrylic ink washes over matt paint in the very early stages. Here, I had to apply them over gloss paint and they wouldn't take straight away. I literally had to pile them on! What you see below then, is the result of approx 25 separate washes, interspersed with some dry-brushing, lighter oversprays, actual gloss varnish and washes, and lots and lots of water and 'rubbing back' with a stiff brush. This is all probably a bit too dark. I have an idea in my head - a bit of an experiment - that might improve all things in all respects, but I would like the opinion of others on whether the panels ARE too dark? BTW. The remaining components are in various stages of reaching the same 'look' as above. Rearguards, Badder Edited December 24, 2018 by Badder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the South African Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) Hi Badder the washes imho looks to be a bit too dark definately too much so for a vehicle in "current" use. It is a pitty that I do not have photo's showing vehicle insides whilst on excercises but they never get quite that dirty or faded. In order to knock it back I would personally have given them a very light misting of the base color untill it goes back to where the contrast is still visable but not as stark. Sorry for the abruptness and what seems to me at least as gruff critique but I got the hammer face as a word skillset and mean to be polite. At any rate though I hope that the humble oppinion does give at the very least a bit of help. Regards: Shaun Edited December 24, 2018 by the South African 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Hi Badder. Hope you are well. I actually like the build up of dirt and grime - it looks realistic to me - but I can understand that in these vehicles lifespans there may not have been that much build up, that quickly. I do like the effect and if I had created such effects I would go by “it's my model and I will make it how I want to”. I'd say it's up to you but I do know you are someone who wants to keep working on something until you feel it's how you want it to be. Hope you find a satisfactory solution. Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetifan Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Hey @Badder nothing worse than losing the carefully typed post, i’ve done that a few times 😫 I agree the downside of the dropper is I sometimes have some paint left over and it feels a bit like a waste, I am getting better at using tiny amounts and topping up the airbrush as I go. I find they are good for a few drops in the palette for detail work as well. I’ve not tried them as washes so will take note of your experience. I think it has gone a bit dark and am sure you can lighten up a little 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewy Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 I'm in "stix" camp on the weathering badder, I really like it, top job, lovely dry brushing, that ain't ott, wait till I start painting mine , it won't look road worthy I guarantee it 😜 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted December 24, 2018 Author Share Posted December 24, 2018 10 hours ago, the South African said: Hi Badder the washes imho looks to be a bit too dark definately too much so for a vehicle in "current" use. It is a pitty that I do not have photo's showing vehicle insides whilst on excercises but they never get quite that dirty or faded. In order to knock it back I would personally have given them a very light misting of the base color untill it goes back to where the contrast is still visable but not as stark. Sorry for the abruptness and what seems to me at least as gruff critique but I got the hammer face as a word skillset and mean to be polite. At any rate though I hope that the humble oppinion does give at the very least a bit of help. Regards: Shaun Hi Shaun, Thanks, and I'm absolutely fine with your comments. I've asked similar questions in other threads, and no one has answered, so it's nice to know someone is actually reading that particular post and is feeling valued enough to respond! I value all 'criticisms; whether negative or positive. In this case I did myself feel they are too dark, but I kinda drew a line under them as it was in the early hours in the morning and I wasn't going to carry on trying to correct them. Today I've looked at them with fresh eyes and can see that they do need lightening up. thanks for your opinion and advice. I did actually lighten them with a misting about mid-way through my faffing about but overdid it somewhat. I then ended upgoing too heavy on the darker washes again. tut. I am now thinking of doing some more drastic panel fading with the hairy stick. If that doesn't give a satifactory finish I may try something a bit more adventurous. Have a great Christmas, Rearguards,# Badder 1 hour ago, PlaStix said: Hi Badder. Hope you are well. I actually like the build up of dirt and grime - it looks realistic to me - but I can understand that in these vehicles lifespans there may not have been that much build up, that quickly. I do like the effect and if I had created such effects I would go by “it's my model and I will make it how I want to”. I'd say it's up to you but I do know you are someone who wants to keep working on something until you feel it's how you want it to be. Hope you find a satisfactory solution. Kind regards, Stix Hi Srix, I am fine thanks, although I overdid it on the mince pies yesterday! I totally agree with you: too dirty for such a 'short-lived' vehicle. And yes, you know me so well. Of course I'm not going to give up on them until I am happy. As I said to Shaun, I'm going to do some drastic 'panel fading' with the brush. Wishing your good self and Mrs Stix a fantastic Christmas and may all your colours be true. (unlike mine!) 1 hour ago, Yetifan said: Hey @Badder nothing worse than losing the carefully typed post, i’ve done that a few times 😫 I agree the downside of the dropper is I sometimes have some paint left over and it feels a bit like a waste, I am getting better at using tiny amounts and topping up the airbrush as I go. I find they are good for a few drops in the palette for detail work as well. I’ve not tried them as washes so will take note of your experience. I think it has gone a bit dark and am sure you can lighten up a little 🙂 Hi Yetifan, The post must have been on the page for over half an hour, so it's a mystery why it didn't auto-save. It does my head in! And yes, I've taken to only putting a couple of drops in the airbrush. Happy Christmas from a bit further along the M4. Badder 47 minutes ago, Hewy said: I'm in "stix" camp on the weathering badder, I really like it, top job, lovely dry brushing, that ain't ott, wait till I start painting mine , it won't look road worthy I guarantee it 😜 I doubt that 'thing' of yours would have been allowed on a road anyway! I look forward to seeing it in all it's grubbiness! ' But my side panels are now going to get a good 'clean'. Have a super Christmas, BTW, there's a Mk I Kampfspringstab in the post for you. Badder 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewy Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Have a good one badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Badder said: Wishing your good self and Mrs Stix a fantastic Christmas Thank you Badder and the same to you and yours. 🎅🎄🤶 Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted December 24, 2018 Author Share Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) Whilst I did think my panels were too dark, and sought affirmation from my peers, I did rather like the actual effects I had achieved. But the panels had to be lightened. I did hope to lighten them whilst still maintaining the effects, and so tried the 'panel fading ' technique using a paler, but transparent mix - applied to the centres of the panels and blending it out to the edges. Several hours and many attempts later, I did succeed in lightening them by a few shades, whilst still maintaining most of the effects. However, I had to be honest with myself and admit that they were still too dark. So, it was with a sense of failure, and frustration that I resorted to giving everything a spray with a base coat of MIG Dunkelgelb again. (I'd tried 'misting' the panels half way through the painting yesterday and didn't like that effect, so it was all or nothing) With the new base coat dried, it was then a case of NOT repeating what I'd done yesterday. I had to find a different approach And moving away from acrylic inks was the obvious thing to do. I considered enamel washes, but didn't fancy stinking the room out. And then it struck me...... why not weathering powders? Or more specificall , weathering powder washes. So, out came Humbrol's Dark Earth Weathering Powder, some water and a large flat brush. I knew I had it right with the first brushstroke! Unlike the acrylic ink washes, this powder wash took straight away. It was with some ease, and a great sense of relief then, that I continued applying this wash to all of the fighting compartment components. In the first two pics, the panels were still wet, hence the 'puddles' along the bottom. DEFINITELY BETTER, AND THE RIGHT WAY TO GO.... So, what have I learned today? IF A WEATHERING MEDIUM DOESN'T BEHAVE AS EXPECTED WHEN IT IS APPLIED TO A 'NEW' UNTRIED BASE COAT, THEN IT'S THE BASE COAT CAUSING THE ISSUE. HOWEVER, IT MAY NOT CAUSE AN ISSUE WITH A DIFFERENT WEATHERING MEDIUM. TEST OLD AND NEW PRODUCTS FOR COMPATIBILITY FIRST! TFL Badder WHEN USING DUNKELGELB FROM THE MIG 1945 LATE GERMAN SET, DON'T TRY TO WEATHER WITH ACRYLIC INKS. USE WEATHERING POWDER WASHES INSTEAD. Edited December 25, 2018 by Badder 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Hi Badder, shes coming along a treat, I didn’t drop by yesterday. Your original weathering would have looked good, if she’d been oversprayed from grey to yellow. The fighting compartment is looking fantastic. Merry Christmas to you and your family, 🎅 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: Hi Badder, shes coming along a treat, I didn’t drop by yesterday. Your original weathering would have looked good, if she’d been oversprayed from grey to yellow. The fighting compartment is looking fantastic. Merry Christmas to you and your family, 🎅 You're probably right Clive, but I got to that point where I thought 'bah humbug, I'll just have to jolly well start again.' or words to that effect. If I had done as you say, I wouldn't have discovered that weathering powders work better on the MIG stuff than acrylic inks do. So, every cloud has a silver lining. Waiting for the ladies to get their bums in gear so I can get my Christmas vouchers and search the net for Nashorn uprgades! Have a great festive holiday, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancisGL Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 On 22/12/2018 at 23:34, Badder said: Very nearly 'Lost in Translation', but I think you meant 'Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: The Holy Grail'. Rearguards, Badder Yep, you've nailed it, sorry for the translation, but once again the cinema to the rescue: "Lost in traslation" (Bill Murray's movie) ... lol .... Cheers Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancisGL Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Hi Badder, I see that you have had problems with the aspect you want to achieve, and a lot of "almost" unproductive work (unfortunately I know what that is ... sigh), at least as you comment you have learned something new and useful, and modestly, I think it looks better as it is now. That set of paintings, was the first I bought when I returned to the hobby, and I did not like it too much, because although it is very comfortable to use, like almost all acrylics, the satin that remains, "makes me nervous", and , but in my case, this painting has a rather unpleasant smell, perhaps, it is out of date, although it may be due to its specific composition. Now I use more AK and Vallejos, the first one is very light IMO and the second one has to be lightened for use. The pigments in the dry (I do not know if I understood it, sorry), it's a great idea to tone shades, I've been using it in tests (especially in tracks) some time ago. A good brushing and definitely, something will remain on the surface, and without odor ... Cheers Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 51 minutes ago, FrancisGL said: The pigments in the dry (I do not know if I understood it, sorry), it's a great idea to tone shades, I've been using it in tests (especially in tracks) some time ago. A good brushing and definitely, something will remain on the surface, and without odor ... Hi Francis, The MIG paint set doesn't have any smell,, well not the Dunkelgelb anyway. I quite like the satin finish TBH, now that I've figured out which colourants I can over the top. The weathering powder was put on wet, mixed with water and used as a wash. I'm going to start on detail painting of the interior now. Happy Christmas, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Hi Badder. Very effective painting and weathering again. Always amazed how you create such realistic effects. Very nicely done. Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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