FrancisGL Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Hi Badder, They are not so bad, to be honest, with a few well-placed scratches, they will do a good job, anyway I understand very well not being totally comfortable with the result you get, especially when something that should not be difficult is stupidly complicated. It occurs to me that you could, use spare decals that you have (hopefully ... lol), type "strip", white or black, cut them to size, and paint the part where the color rings will go contrary to the decals you have ... Cheers Badder 👍 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 49 minutes ago, FrancisGL said: It occurs to me that you could, use spare decals that you have (hopefully ... lol), type "strip", white or black, cut them to size, and paint the part where the color rings will go contrary to the decals you have ... Hi Francis, You are a genius! Why didn't I think of that? Because I'm not a genius! I'm not sure if I have any suitable, or indeed 'spare' decals that'll be suitable, but I do have a very old sheet of Balkenkreuz transfers somewhere. I could try cutting those up to make the white rings. I owe you a pint! Rearguards, Badder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) Hi @FrancisGL Well, you could knock me down with a feather. Not only did I find the sheets of Balkenkreuz in super-quick time - no more than 5 ft from where I'm sitting (they were in a Dragon StuG III box filled with odds and ends and which has been on top of a bookshelf for nearly 3years) but they are DECALS, not transfers. I picked them up for pennies from an odds and ends basket in my LHS (which closed down a couple of years ago) I suspect they are well over 20yrs old though. Hopefully they will still 'decalate' If not, I will have to stick them down with varnish or something. Whatever, I will be doing the kill rings YET AGAIN - this time with the black rings cut from the decals and applied over an acrylic white background. I'm not up to doing that tonight though. I will just clean the current rings off and re-spray the white for now. Perhaps some of those people who do WWII German Wingy things can tell me how old these decal sheets are? Thanks again for your brainwave solution, Rearguards, Badder Edited March 2, 2019 by Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) KILL RINGS Unfortunately the ancient decals are as sticky as two magnets placed back to back (or front to front) I did manage to get a test decal stuck on my desk lamp using MicroSol. Hopefully I can use the same method for the kill rings. Whilst researching kill rings on the web I found that most were applied by hand, using nothing more than sticks of chalk, some neat and tidy, some messy. Neat black and white kill rings were a rarer breed. Still, they were all employed - but much more so on tank destroyers, AT guns (and of course AA guns) than they were on medium and heavy tanks. BTW, I did laugh when one person claimed that one of Wittmann's Tigers had kill rings that were made using electrical tape. I was sure electrical tape didn't exist back then. A quick search proved me right, but not by much. Electrical tape was patented in 1946 - still, a bit late for Tigers to be on the prowl. I was worried about placing too many rings on my Nassy, but I turns out I needn't have. I've found photos of Nashorns and other tank killers with 30-40 very thin rings on their barrels. Okay, Pommern wasn't photographed with kill rings, but it may have had them at some point. Barrel changes would have meant having to reapply them and maybe 'ace' crews couldn't find the time to 'paint' high numbers of rings on the replacements. Discussions have raged on the web about their use though - how many were temporary additions for propaganda photos only. Certainly, there are a examples of this having been the case, but the fact is photos show that crews did add them AND KEEP THEM out in the field. Some have tried to suggest that crews might have been foolish to advertise their prowess to an enemy who might then single them out as deserving special attention, but an enemy is surely going to fire at ANY tank killer within range, whether it has kill rings, or none at all. And ultimately the rings were used more for boosting moral and encouraging competition amongst the crews than they were for trying to scare the enemy! If an enemy were close enough to count the rings, it might have been the last thing they ever did! Anyway, if I can get the decals to behave, I will be upping the number of rings on my Nassy's barrel. TFL Badder Edited March 3, 2019 by Badder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stuart Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Interesting reading, replicating rings on a stickky thing. I'm going through a similar pain on my own build, and understand your frustration here. Looking at your images, I suspect you tried rolling tape around the gun barrel? I find folding tape around the gun barrel easier to line up ... but sealing the join takes more effort, 'cause there is greater risk of bleed. p.s. Try to have the joints on the bottom - they are less visible there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Robert Stuart said: Interesting reading, replicating rings on a stickky thing. I'm going through a similar pain on my own build, and understand your frustration here. Looking at your images, I suspect you tried rolling tape around the gun barrel? I find folding tape around the gun barrel easier to line up ... but sealing the join takes more effort, 'cause there is greater risk of bleed. p.s. Try to have the joints on the bottom - they are less visible there. Hi Robert, Yes, I used thin strips of Tamiya tape and rolled them around the barrel. The joins I kept at the bottom, but I still had bleed issues thanks to my inept fingers and the slight taper on the barrel. The decal idea is better, requiring only a base coat of white with no need for a spray with black (or vice versa) but these decals are too old and relatively thick. I've just soaked one in MicroSol to really soften it up, and that's proven successful. But in the meantime I've had to varnish the barrel to protect the white. (it was reactivating under the influence of the MicroSol 'wash' I had applied earlier) It's still going to be fiddly, and difficult for me to apply them, but I will give it another go. PS In extremis, I may ask the wife if I can borrow her ink jet printer and make a single piece decal with all the rings on it. Her printer is like my AB. I'm not allowed to use hers and she's not allowed to be within 6ft of mine! Good luck with your kill rings. I saw a photo of a Hummel with around 50 on it! Rearguards, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stuart Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Badder said: Good luck with your kill rings. I saw a photo of a Hummel with around 50 on it! Not kill rings (you'll see when you get there ), but a Hummel with kill rings would be an interesting sight. More so if they had been earned, I wonder what the story was there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said: Not kill rings (you'll see when you get there ), but a Hummel with kill rings would be an interesting sight. More so if they had been earned, I wonder what the story was there? I will be there shortly. Just uploading some pics first. As for the Hummel with the high number of kill rings, it only surprises me that they had time to put them on! As I said earlier, one Nashorn ace knocked out 32 Russian tanks in ONE battle. There'd come a point where they'd run out of room for the rings, have to wipe them off and maybe start again with thinner stripes, or not bother at all. Reargiards, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 Whilst waiting for some varnish to dry on the gun barrel, I thought I'd bite the bullet and add some parts that I'd left off either because they were awkward, or liable to be knocked off! First were the 'mud flap springs'. Last time I spent an absolute age trying to glue these in place. This time it was a matter of moments. Don't aske me why! I will be chipping that fender's edge BTW. And the other spring - still wet (and fender edge requiring chipping) And even the Not-so-eagle-eyed might have seen the driver's front viewing hatch has been fitted. Unlike with my previous Nashorn, I constructed the hatch correctly and had no problem at all fitting it. BTW, that piece of wire sticking in the tracks RHS is one of the pins to join the track links - deliberately left long so that I can undo the tracks and remove them in future, should that be required. BTW, the gun travel lock is still loose and can be raised. It should rest at a higher angle than this when 'dropped'. I haven't yet fixed the copper wire into its hole; this will raise the angle of the lock by a few degrees when I do. Some chipping required along the sloping edge below the driver's side hatch. TFL Badder 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancisGL Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) Hi Badder, I also have decals in that state, and being yellow, it is a sign that they are in very bad condition, maybe for something less meticulous they would serve but for that, they will probably break ... What about the printer is a good idea, I have never done it, but I have seen that they sell special paper sheets for this, although expensive ... I remember seeing (I think in the forum), an M3 Grant, that the modeler had made the marks in that way, but although its appearance was magnificent, you could see "the relief" out of the decal, not being totally integrated into the surface, causing the result I would not like. There are also "specific liquids to repair decals", I do not know what result they will have ... Maybe there is still time, and you can order some appropriate set, either from AFVs or plans, or even some mask, e.g. some set of "strips of invasion D-Day", cutting them with a good cutter "laser" (lol) and custom ... Cheers Badder 👍 Edited March 3, 2019 by FrancisGL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, FrancisGL said: What about the printer is a good idea, I have never done it, but I have seen that they sell special paper sheets for this, although expensive ... I remember seeing (I think in the forum), an M3 Grant, that the modeler had made the marks in that way, but although its appearance was magnificent, you could see "the relief" out of the decal, not being totally integrated into the surface, causing the result I would not like. There are also "specific liquids to repair decals", I do not know what result they will have ... Maybe there is still time, and you can order some appropriate set, either from AFVs or plans, or even some mask, e.g. some set of "strips of invasion D-Day", cutting them with a good cutter "laser" (lol) and custom ... Hi Francis, I will print the decals (on the expensive 'water-slide film' if I have to. If I do, I will make a single decal with all the stripes on it. That way there'll be no raised relief. It will mean having to draw the decal first, but I do have an engineering background and did work in a draughtsman's office both on paper and CADAM, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get the slight curvature needed to deal with the barrel's taper. I have looked briefly on line for Nashorn kill ring decals, but couldn't find any. I will have a look for other Pak 43 kill ring decals at some point - they should suffice. But first, I will have a go with the decals I am soaking in MicroSol. That softens them up massively and makes the sticky again. The issue here will be getting them aligned quickly without damaging them. Rearguards, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wimbledon99 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 So much detail - I'm in awe!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 5 hours ago, wimbledon99 said: So much detail - I'm in awe!! Thanks old bean! There's something about faded/worn whitewash that agrees with me. I think it lends itself to a messy-modeller like me! I've not done a whitewash this way before - having previously used chipping fluid. Here I've not used any, and have just relied on water to take the ink off, or thin it down and spread it about. And of course, I've built up many, many layers. But the finished effects in the photos surprise even me! I seriously can't believe it's all my own work! To put it all in perspective though. I am struggling with the kill rings! I've not had any luck finding 'water-slide' printing paper to make kill ring decals but I did find some 2mm Tamiya tape. That may do the business - saving me having to cut accurate strips of masking tape by hand. We shall see..... Rearguards, Nadder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Just looking at your photos in post #484 Badder and it really is like looking at the real thing. Keep going!! Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 20 hours ago, PlaStix said: Just looking at your photos in post #484 Badder and it really is like looking at the real thing. Keep going!! Kind regards, Stix Thanks so much Stix, I always feel humbled when you praise my work - well, the more recent work anyway! As I said, I think I found my 'style' with the Sherman. I think this Nashorn could have done wit a tiny bit of chipping fluid TBH - applied in specific areas such as the panel edges and sharp corners, other than that I have enjoyed the more precise chipping that can be achieved by targeted rubbing back and brush-applied chipping. Looking through my stash, I find that the vast majority are suitable candidates for 'winterising'. With that in mind. I can see myself becoming a 'Winterised-AFV modeller'. Rearguards, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Confession time. Yesterday, I set about masking the barrel with Tamiya's 2mm 'Tape for masking curves'. Being 2mm in width it proved itself handy - saving me having to cut strips from wider tape and to a suitable degree of accuracy over the required length. Being 'unlimited' in length it also gave me the freedom to use as much tape as I needed, rather than cut strips to meet my need. So, with the barrel painted white, I began masking. Before, I only masked those areas I wished to remain white. So, I was leaving a gap between each ring of tape and judging that gap (and the 'parallelity' between each ring) by eye - obviously not the most accurate way of doing things. With the new tape though, I could 'afford' to use the tape itself as a spacer. I wrapped the tape around and continued to add a couple more 'winds', making a thick mask. Then I lay the next length of tape beside it and wrapped it around once. That 'thin' mask then became the datum for the following thick ring of tape and so on, and so on. Once all the rings had been added, I removed the thin rings and sprayed over with black. It all looked much neater, all spaced nicely, and parallel. And in my impatience to see how it turned out, I removed the masking and smudged a lot of the black in the process, dirtying the white! Once again, I had to clean the barrel back to the bare plastic. I re-sprayed with white though, giving it plenty of time to cure before my FINAL ATTEMPT TODAY! This time I will be patient!!!!!! TFL Badder 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stuart Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Badder said: It all looked much neater, all spaced nicely, and parallel. And in my impatience to see how it turned out, I removed the masking and smudged a lot of the black in the process, dirtying the white! Owww! Been there, done that, will do it again (unintentionally). I hope you have better luck next time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Robert Stuart said: Owww! Been there, done that, will do it again (unintentionally). I hope you have better luck next time Oh, I had SOOOOO much luck. Not!!!! Yep, I'd allowed plenty of time for drying, so no smudging this time. What did happen was that about 1/3rd of the masks pulled the underlying white acrylic off the barrel! I was so annoyed I could have cracked a coconut in two with my bare teeth!! Well, I wasn't going to bother with yet another attempt. I got a hairy stick out and applied white ink as best I could. And that'll have to do. I will be fading the rings somewhat and will have some worn whitewash over the worst areas. Rearguards, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 These 'expletive deleted' kill rings sure have been a pain in the wotsit. These are going to have to do.... I won't be showing any further work on the barrel. A lady has to keep some secrets! I've now moved on to the rear doors - having just applied the decals. I have also have made a start on the figures (which may or may not make it in time for the gallery!) TFL Badder 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wimbledon99 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Hi Badder, Looks like a war-torn barrel to me!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, wimbledon99 said: Hi Badder, Looks like a war-torn barrel to me!! You're too kind Nigel. However, they are the best I've managed and they will have to do. I never intended that they should be a blindingly clean black and white anyway, so some fading and whitewash and maybe some scratches will hopefully improve the look and hide the messiest of the white rings. Rearguards, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stuart Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 If you are up to it B, a bit of hand re-touching should bring those rings into line ... ... just consider how much time and effort the crew of your Nashie spend painting and polishing the beast to keep it parade ready. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Well it's obviously been a bit traumatic but they are actually looking very good. The real ones probably would have been less than perfect. It's like aircraft modellers who do very tidy D-Day stripes - me included - but when you see the original aircraft many of the stripes looked very crudely done. Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 5 hours ago, Robert Stuart said: If you are up to it B, a bit of hand re-touching should bring those rings into line ... ... just consider how much time and effort the crew of your Nashie spend painting and polishing the beast to keep it parade ready. My fingers aren't always up to precise brush painting Robert. The disease I have means that my nerves are under attack regularly - my immunee system stripping the protective lining of the nerve endings. When 'stripped' the electrical signals can leak out and trigger the nerve next door, so sometimes I go to move one finger and the wrong one moves! The resulting scar tissue pinches the nerves and affects muscle control. Forget about all the associated pain, but I get relapses and remissions, and I'm currently in relapse to my fingers really aren't up to the job! I did as best I could but there are a few wavy lines and errant bits of white here and there. But not to worry. This Nassy will never get to see a parade ground! Rearguards, Badder 25 minutes ago, PlaStix said: Well it's obviously been a bit traumatic but they are actually looking very good. The real ones probably would have been less than perfect. It's like aircraft modellers who do very tidy D-Day stripes - me included - but when you see the original aircraft many of the stripes looked very crudely done. Kind regards, Stix This is absolutely the case Stix. As I said, I've seen photos where they were being applied by a guy sitting on the end of the barrel, wielding a stick of chalk, and others standing on fuel drums. They wouldn't have won prizes for technical drawing. However, a bunch of 'crude' kill rings or D-Day stripes, no matter will make the viewer think that the modeller isn't very good at painting. when I fact the modeller is superb at painting and has copied the originals exactly. So, it probably pays to do them as neatly as possible and avoid that misconception. Rearguards, Badder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancisGL Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 That "zebra" looks great in spite of all the inconveniences, when it is scratched it will be very well integrated, I would give it for good, maybe with more time you could do something that you would like more, but as I say, for me it is very good. Cheers Badder 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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