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Hannants using my Sage 2 model is this normal for them?


cduckworth

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Found yesterday that Hannants is using the image of my Spin Sage build on their product page. Shown below is the page with my Sage on it and Hannants page.  I emailed them yesterday to at least give me credit on the hyjacked image. 

 

Is is this a common practice by Hannants?  

 

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Duckworth/RAF/index.html

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SPIN4807

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They can't use your picture without permission. Your picture is copyright by you.

Suggest that you send a bill to them of at least £80, or ask them kindly to remove your picture from their page.

What's making it even worse is that they are using it commercially to sell a product.

 

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Unfortunately you have placed the image into the Public Domain (the Internet) without any usage restrictions and what people choose to do with it is out of your control. This is why a lot of photos that are for sale are only shown as low-res or watermarked versions on websites. From a courtesy point of view it would be good to get credited for the photo but I doubt you will be able to get any financial compensation for it's use.

 

I work in a school and part of my role is helping teachers understand what they can and can't do with things they find on the Interwebby.😵

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve

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Isn’t a ‘credit line’ compensation?  Ie you want reward for the use of your image.

 

I don’t think you need to tell us what the outcome of any discussion  is between yourself and Hannants. 

 

Have the conversation, obtain an outcome, move on..

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I was recently looking on the net for anything on the Bedford Traclat , and was quite suprised to find an article on the Nevington War museum , which was illustrated with several photos of a model Traclat I made a few years back.  How they got the photos I don't know as the only place I recall posting them was on Missing Lynx , I was actually quite chuffed to see them used .

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I have posted many photos on this forum and other domains over the years and been surprised to find my photos appearing on Google/Pinterest and many sites without credit, links or reference.  At that moment in time I did not realise(as has been pointed out in a previous thread)it was open to public abuse.  I have no issue with my material being saved and used by people personally on their computer, but when it used "worldwide" and credited to other people, I tend to draw a line.  But what can I do? It was posted in public domain and is open to be violated by all wanting to.  Since finding this out a few years ago, I have not posted any photos on the internet and especially this site, even if you post low resolution photos, their is software available to make good low res...……..so remember, unless you want your photos to go viral, think twice before posting

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14 hours ago, Plasto said:

Isn’t a ‘credit line’ compensation?  

In this instance NO, but I suppose it's interpretation.

I took it to mean a (written) line, somewhere within the Hannants page, giving the original builder the credit for their endeavour, rather than the assumption that the build was by either a Hannants employee or the manufacturer of the kit.

The law covering copyright to a photograph now states it's held by the photographer, previously it was held by the subject.

Your chart (above, top left box) gives me the same idea. However, it's another case of a large corporation making money off the back of someone who is doubtful to use the weight of the law to uphold their rights, this coming down to £/$/€/¥.

Yet another 'grey' area to be milked by 'bean counters' and 'sharp practice', who, whatever happens, will walk away squeaky clean.

Whatever happened to personal integrity?

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9 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

A thought or suggestion

Hannants may have had the image supplied by Spin Models (given their awful box art) and Hannants have no idea it's not just a Spin promotional picture. 

Well said.  It's always best to maintain an open mind until you are in possession of the full facts, or as much factual information as you can possibly glean.  It saves an awful lot of apologising or embarrassment from going off pop! before you know what's going on.  There are a lot of people out there that don't bother to find out the facts before they kick off... ever! :lol: 

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20 hours ago, Plasto said:

Isn’t a ‘credit line’ compensation?  Ie you want reward for the use of your image.

 

I don’t think you need to tell us what the outcome of any discussion  is between yourself and Hannants. 

 

Have the conversation, obtain an outcome, move on..

I have to disagree with this.  I think OP is entitled to a reply from Hannants and I don't see why it's a problem if that answer is shown here.

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When I send items in my range to Hannants, I send them images to, if I don't they list the product without an image and its not as likely to sell, and get restocked when it sells out. So its in my interest to supply images, I would agree Spin Models probably supplied Hannants with the image, and they used it in good faith.

 

Colin   

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6 hours ago, PhoenixII said:

In this instance NO, but I suppose it's interpretation.

I took it to mean a (written) line, somewhere within the Hannants page, giving the original builder the credit for their endeavour, 

 

My interpretation was store credit used to obtain goods. But you are probably correct.

 

It’s not my chart but the internet’s I’ve just found it with a 30 second google search and posted it here. I think it explains the subject well. 

 

My view FWIW is that this is possibly not a case of a struggle between the ‘little guy’ and a ‘giant corporate’ but a relatively small business (if we’re using corporates as the metric) that sells model aeroplane kits and associated items. Using an image of a model of a relatively obscure aircraft type to try and conduct that trade. 

 

What we don’t know where they got the picture, off of a general internet search, as Troy says from the kit manufacturer, from Pinterest could be any one of a number of places. 

Therefore we don’t know if they are at fault ( if any fault actually exists as my interpretation of the chart  leads to a green box).

 

The reality is all of this discourse while interesting is not going to solve the issue which is between the OP and Hannants.

 

Nor is it likely to materially have any impact on Hannants business or in reality our general perception of them. 

 

Simply if you post stuff in the internet you cease to have control of it the second it’s posted.

 

Cheers

 

Plasto

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On 12/12/2018 at 7:27 PM, BritJet said:

Unfortunately you have placed the image into the Public Domain (the Internet) without any usage restrictions and what people choose to do with it is out of your control.

I disagree with you. According to the European copyright-related law in general published photos do not automatically became Public Domain. The copyright is still with the author (for a long time after publication, it depends on situation). To make some material Public Domain the author must openly state it.

Of course people are allowed to "fair use" of the published materials created by others, but clearly commercial use (like the internet shop website) is definitely not the "fair use". Fair use includes things like review, discussion, education, private research etc. but not commercial use.

 

I agree that the photo might have been supplied by the producer. In general Hannant's website isn't full of model photos stolen from the Internet.
 

BTW, I remember this model, Charlie, from The List!!!!

Edited by GrzeM
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1 hour ago, GrzeM said:

I disagree with you. According to the European copyright-related law in general published photos do not automatically became Public Domain.

I disagree with you!!!  I have posted material on the internet which has been copied/infringed...………………….once its copied and used by the perpetrators, that too stands a strong chance of being copied also, which in turn gets copied and so a vicious cycle continues, so much so, that NOBODY knows where it came from and who is the original owner...…………………...once you post anything in the public domain, you stand a strong chance of loosing it...……………….numerous photos of mine appear on Pinterest, duplicated over and over again by different people...………..I have had people ask me if they can use a photo or two for their club site or enthusiasts club...…………...only to find that those photos appearing world wide...…………...as I said earlier, I stopped publishing my photos about 5 years ago and still, when I use Google for research they appear before me

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Well, the fact that somebody has stolen your property doesn't make your property "public domain".
Publication in the Internet is no different than any other publication (book, newspaper etc.). Internet is only a medium, not a "domain".

Professional photographers hire lawyers who find such infridgements and sue the perpetrators.

From Wikipedia:
"Before 1988 in the US, works could be easily given into the public domain by just releasing it without an explicit Copyright notice. With the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988 (and the earlier Copyright Act of 1976, which went into effect in 1978), all works were by default copyright protected and needed to be actively given into public domain by a waiver statement/anti-copyright can call notice. Not all legal systems have processes for reliably donating works to the public domain, e.g. civil law of continental Europe.[citation needed] This may even "effectively prohibit any attempt by copyright owners to surrender rights automatically conferred by law, particularly moral rights"."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

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Not good if Hannants have used your image, though I doubt it was deliberate. It probably been supplied to them and they used it.

 

Its good to get in touch with them and find out, and I dont see any reason you cant post up here on the forum that its happend. Having had some of my walkaround pictures used by antoher site I feel your pain. I provided those pics here for anyone to use, but if being used I would expect credit for them which i what I told the other site, and they did credit them.

 

On the plus side from this thread I now know what a Sage 2 was, never heard of it before, man its ugly in a way only we could do.

 

Please let us know the outcome.

 

Julien

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7 hours ago, Plasto said:

Read this...

 

https://wersm.com/no-your-instagram-photos-arent-yours-and-someone-else-can-sell-them-for-90000/

 

My take is there is no strongly defined legal view. 

 

Post stuff up. It’s probably fair game..

 

Not that any of this is of any help to the OP

I'm not sure if the statement in this article is fully confirmed. Or maybe it is US law, sligtly different than European.

It is true that publishing anything on the social media you pass part of your copyright to the medium (facebook, instagram etc. - you agree for that when you accept the regulations during creating the account).
Does the films have different law, or the films posted to the internet became public domain too?

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At best it's bad form, although as others have mentioned it's most likely a case that they were supplied the image by another party and so the slight is unintentional.

 

Please do keep us posted of the outcome as there seem to be a fair few of us who are interested in hearing how you fare (why on earth you shouldn't post how you get on, which was suggested by someone here, is completely beyond me).

 

Not an aircraft you see modelled everyday of the week!

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From Allan Wright, the man who runs the WWI Mailing List Website on which the photo was posted:  

 

}I cover that in the site's FAQ. In fact I receive inquiries often about using site images. Those are forwarded to the image contributors when they're still active. I could add a 'copyright info' link to the site's page footer that hot links to the appropriate FAQ section I suppose. That's the 'modern' way to do it. Allan{

 

FWIW.

 

 

Paul.

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