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Does anyone find the Iwata Eclipse uncomfortable to hold?


nheather
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On 12/13/2018 at 11:13 AM, Bryan71 said:

Can I ask how much it was and we’re did you get it from

I know, and work with someone who makes custom triggers.

In fact he owns the patent on non-ambidextrous triggers.  They are mostly one-offs, made on manually operated mill and lathe and run about $45 USD but you can ask for any height you'd like and they are angled for right or left handed use.

If you're interested in one let me know , I'll post up (if allowed) the info to contact him. Otherwise I guess PM me.

 

 

Although honestly my guess is that you're feeling either the lack of air channel in front of the valve or possibly feeling the .5mm (I believe) larger body diameter.

Edited by Robbyrockett
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1 hour ago, Robbyrockett said:

I know, and work with someone who makes custom triggers.

In fact he owns the patent on non-ambidextrous triggers.  They are mostly one-offs, made on manually operated mill and lathe and run about $45 USD but you can ask for any height you'd like and they are angled for right or left handed use.

If you're interested in one let me know , I'll post up (if allowed) the info to contact him. Otherwise I guess PM me.

 

 

Although honestly my guess is that you're feeling either the lack of air channel in front of the valve or possibly feeling the .5mm (I believe) larger body diameter.

Cheers for a that.Sounds interesting 

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4 hours ago, Robbyrockett said:

I know, and work with someone who makes custom triggers.

In fact he owns the patent on non-ambidextrous triggers.  They are mostly one-offs, made on manually operated mill and lathe and run about $45 USD but you can ask for any height you'd like and they are angled for right or left handed use.

If you're interested in one let me know , I'll post up (if allowed) the info to contact him. Otherwise I guess PM me.

 

 

Although honestly my guess is that you're feeling either the lack of air channel in front of the valve or possibly feeling the .5mm (I believe) larger body diameter.

Useful to know.  To be honest a bespoke trigger is not something I would consider because I think it is too expensive on the chance that it might help and I would have no idea what to ask for.

 

I bought the Iwata tall trigger because I assumed that they had done the R&D to come up with the best general design - but having got it I struggle to see why they bothered as it is barely any different.

 

But to be fair, I haven't used it yet - maybe when I do that extra 1mm will make a world of difference.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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8 hours ago, nheather said:

Useful to know.  To be honest a bespoke trigger is not something I would consider because I think it is too expensive on the chance that it might help and I would have no idea what to ask for.

 

I bought the Iwata tall trigger because I assumed that they had done the R&D to come up with the best general design - but having got it I struggle to see why they bothered as it is barely any different.

 

But to be fair, I haven't used it yet - maybe when I do that extra 1mm will make a world of difference.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

I wondered if the custom trigger would fit

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11 hours ago, nheather said:

Useful to know.  To be honest a bespoke trigger is not something I would consider because I think it is too expensive on the chance that it might help and I would have no idea what to ask for.

 

I bought the Iwata tall trigger because I assumed that they had done the R&D to come up with the best general design - but having got it I struggle to see why they bothered as it is barely any different.

 

But to be fair, I haven't used it yet - maybe when I do that extra 1mm will make a world of difference.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

Yeah I kinda figured. You'd have to be pretty serious about an eclipse to spend a third of it's cost just making it work for you. Just figured I'd throw that out there.

 

You might try mocking up something like the badger krome has on it's air valve, just to see if the lack of ridge ahead of the air valve is the issue.

 

Hot glue is good for just mocking up little body mods.

 

If it works you'd have to get creative about making something more permanent but...

 

Or eh, trade it for a c+

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8 hours ago, Robbyrockett said:

Yeah I kinda figured. You'd have to be pretty serious about an eclipse to spend a third of it's cost just making it work for you. Just figured I'd throw that out there.

 

You might try mocking up something like the badger krome has on it's air valve, just to see if the lack of ridge ahead of the air valve is the issue.

 

Hot glue is good for just mocking up little body mods.

 

If it works you'd have to get creative about making something more permanent but...

 

Or eh, trade it for a c+

I’ve just treated myself to a CM-C Plus(V2)

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8 hours ago, Bryan71 said:

I’ve just treated myself to a CM-C Plus(V2)

Nice.

 

Out of interest, just reading about it and one of the selling points is a 'hand matched head'.  I assume that means that the needle, nozzle and cap are selected and matched by experts to ensure the most perfect operation.  So what happens down the line and you split a nozzle.  Does the whole 'hand matched head' thing go out of the window because you get the one you order?

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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1 hour ago, nheather said:

Nice.

 

Out of interest, just reading about it and one of the selling points is a 'hand matched head'.  I assume that means that the needle, nozzle and cap are selected and matched by experts to ensure the most perfect operation.  So what happens down the line and you split a nozzle.  Does the whole 'hand matched head' thing go out of the window because you get the one you order?

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

From what I understand you have to return it.But I may be wrong.At the price it teaches you to be more careful.🤣

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You can buy a matched head assembly, but their not cheap.Then perhaps I've been lucky but I've never damaged a nozzel yet.

You seldom need to remove nozzels, flush through with a good cleaner removes paint etc good enough, so long as you don't leave paint in the cup or airbrush to dry up.

It's not just the head assembly with the microns, the way the air gets delivered has a lot to do with it, not just one air hole but three.

I think the Eclipse uses a similar set up for air delivery

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On 12/18/2018 at 9:47 AM, nheather said:

Nice.

 

Out of interest, just reading about it and one of the selling points is a 'hand matched head'.  I assume that means that the needle, nozzle and cap are selected and matched by experts to ensure the most perfect operation.  So what happens down the line and you split a nozzle.  Does the whole 'hand matched head' thing go out of the window because you get the one you order?

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

The hand matched head thing is mostly a marketing leftover from olympos. Back in the day when tolerances weren't so tight. Even then it had more to do with matching an air cap to a base.

Now all it really means is that they do a test spray to ensure they did in fact come out centered.

 

I've known a lot of people to buy or swap individual parts without any change in performance whatsoever.

 

But if you're real concerned just buy a head assembly and needle from a gsi 770 and for a whole $85 and be done with it.

Apart from the hex shape at rear and the satin finish , it is absolutely identical.

Or just do the 770 in the first place and save up front.

 

Incidentally, the .18 iwata or gsi (again identical)  is in reality a larger nozzle than the .23 and likely better with modeling paints ....go figure.

 

.23' actual nozzle bore is .27ish mm diameter

.18 actual nozzle bore is .355 ish mm diameter.

Edited by Robbyrockett
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But surely it's not the bore size but the taper at the end which gives you the final spray size for fine detail, assuming you don't pull the needle all the way back, which if you do your really not getting the best from the micron in the first place if you purchased it for fine detail painting

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6 hours ago, colin said:

But surely it's not the bore size but the taper at the end which gives you the final spray size for fine detail, assuming you don't pull the needle all the way back, which if you do your really not getting the best from the micron in the first place if you purchased it for fine detail painting

Yes, basically.

The nozzle bore has mainly to do with minimum paint volume at opening. So it contributes to detail, once you put in the human factor.

 

I'm kind of summarizing but for just fine lines;

The main big factors are the air gap size, the angle on the nozzle exterior, the nozzle wall thickness at the tip and how far the angle is carried to the center on the needle.

 

I phrase the needle thing that way because they basically all use the same main angle. They are just stubbed off at different lengths.

 

Compare an olympos micron to an iwata micron or gsi 770;

 

On the olympos it has a thicker nozzle wall, larger air gap, but carries the 6.5-7deg needle taper all the way to a very sharp point.

 

The Iwata/GSI version the needle is 6.5-7 deg but stops short and changes to 16deg for about 1mm and then it's flat for about .1mm  diameter across the tip.

 

The Iwata version gave up some fine line ability for a stumpier, less delicate needle. Then mostly made up for it by tightening the air gap and thinning the nozzle wall.

Those changes make it do it's lines a little darker though, not as soft as the olympos.

 

Edited by Robbyrockett
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I have a Olympos micron, and as you say the needle on that tapers for a very long way and is very easy to damage due to this, perhaps thats's why Iwata didn't go down that route.

In fact the Olympos needle is virtually impossible not to damage, just putting it back into the airbrush and I caught the tip at the very end and got the slightest of barbs,never seen another needle with as fine a point as this, reground it and to be fair it still sprays exceptionally nice.

Don't think I would buy a new one now though, the quality of finish has gone down tha pan

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On 12/22/2018 at 7:56 AM, colin said:

I have a Olympos micron, and as you say the needle on that tapers for a very long way and is very easy to damage due to this, perhaps thats's why Iwata didn't go down that route.

In fact the Olympos needle is virtually impossible not to damage, just putting it back into the airbrush and I caught the tip at the very end and got the slightest of barbs,never seen another needle with as fine a point as this, reground it and to be fair it still sprays exceptionally nice.

Don't think I would buy a new one now though, the quality of finish has gone down tha pan

I realized today those numbers were from regrinds.

I've been measuring fresh sets and getting preliminary measures of 6deg 12deg on the iwata and 5deg on the olympos,  still have to do some setup to take fully accurate measures but .....same concept nonetheless.

 

The angle change basically cuts off the last couple mm of skinniest needle.

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