Fairey Battle TT

[Sosezi]

Hello guys! I'm looking for the photos of TT Battles 

any pics will be appreciated 

 

also interested in Irish Air Corps TT Battle #92

 

How the Irish Air Corps got that aircraft and what's the story behind this one

 

Cheers!

[Ed Russell]

Mixed in with the trainers there are a number of TTs here.

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a22.htm

 

[Seahawk]

Irish Air Corps Battle TT 92.  Ex V1222: was on a training flight from West Freugh Air Observer School in Scotland on 2 April 1941 when it became lost and landed at Tramore, Waterford in Eire.  The Irish Government impounded the aircraft and it was used by the Irish Air Corps for several years.  Earlier Eire had requested 10 Harvards, 13 Hurricanes and 3 Battle TTs but accepted the offer of 10 Hector biplanes instead.   From Air Britain's The Battle File, p.116.  Artwork by David Howley in same book shows the aircraft with nose art on the port side of Donald Duck towing a banner in which bullet holes spell out "Get quacking".

[Sosezi]

first of all, thank you for your reply  so was V1222 repainted except it's markings? 

what color undersides were painted in? some pictures showing it in Night (black) some is Silver and some light grey.....

 

also "Get Quacking" nose art was painted in Ireland or during her service in the RAF?

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Sosezi

[Sosezi]

6 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

Mixed in with the trainers there are a number of TTs here.

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a22.htm

 

Thanks a lot!! 

those are RAAF birdies I'm Correct?  

Cheers!

[brewerjerry]

Hi

    Link to info 

 

http://homepage.eircom.net/~wrgi/faireywat.html

 

 cheers

    J 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by brewerjerry

[Sosezi]

36 minutes ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

    Link to info 

 

http://homepage.eircom.net/~wrgi/faireywat.html

 

 cheers

    J 

 

Thank you very much  

"Impounded" makes me feel that Irish Air Corps had some problems with RAF long before IRA and any other conflicts~

[Seahawk]

3 hours ago, Sosezi said:

first of all, thank you for your reply  so was V1222 repainted except it's markings? 

what color undersides were painted in? some pictures showing it in Night (black) some is Silver and some light grey.....

 

also "Get Quacking" nose art was painted in Ireland or during her service in the RAF?

David Howley illustrated the aircraft both before capture (as "8" of 4 Bombing & Gunnery School) and after as Eire 92.  As Eire 92, the aircraft is depicted with the lower surfaces repainted in a light colour (probably aluminium) vice black.  The upper surfaces have partially repainted, mostly by expanding green areas to cover over the RAF markings though some Dark Earth has been used as well.  The Dark Earth areas on the port side of the nose have also been painted out in Dark Green.   The nose art appears only on the Eire illustration: a bit surprising - I would have expected something in Gaelic.

 

NB this is artwork, not photos, but the late David Howley was one of the most meticulous artists.

[Sosezi]

something close to this? if yes I'll go this way making mine (one of many TT's I have )

[Ed Russell]

4 hours ago, Sosezi said:

those are RAAF birdies I'm correct?  

Yes indeed you are correct - all RAAF.

Unfortunately we don't do a TT set, only trainers

https://www.redroomodels.com/148-scale/red-roo-fairey-battle-t-mk1-raaf-148/

https://www.redroomodels.com/172-scale/red-roo-fairey-battle-t-mk1-raaf-172/

If you like TT's you will like

https://www.redroomodels.com/red-roo-resin-148/red-roo-raaf-target-towing-beaufighter-conv-148/

[Seahawk]

Pretty much except that a. no artwork is shown on the engine cowling panel aft and below the exhausts; b. on Howley's artwork the DE/DG demarcation forward of the fuselage roundel slopes the other way, dropping down from the rear edge of the canopy in a wavy line to reach the demarcation with the silver about where the vertical panel line is on the MAX drawing; and c. Howley's Dark Earth area at the tip of the nose is smaller.  I have no idea who is (more) right.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Seahawk

[tonyot]

Print Scale Decals include the Irish Battle on one of their sheets,... including the duck nose art;

http://www.printscale.org/product_396.html

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Print-Scale-Decals-1-72-FAIREY-BATTLE-British-WWII-Bomber-/361190055845

Spoiler

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by tonyot

[Biggles81]

15 hours ago, Sosezi said:

Thank you very much  

"Impounded" makes me feel that Irish Air Corps had some problems with RAF long before IRA and any other conflicts~

Not in this case - it was because the Republic of Ireland was officially neutral in WWII and international law demanded that equipment operated by belligerent countries be impounded for the duration of hostilities if they enter neutral territory.

 

[Sosezi]

19 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

Yes indeed you are correct - all RAAF.

Unfortunately we don't do a TT set, only trainers

https://www.redroomodels.com/148-scale/red-roo-fairey-battle-t-mk1-raaf-148/

https://www.redroomodels.com/172-scale/red-roo-fairey-battle-t-mk1-raaf-172/

If you like TT's you will like

https://www.redroomodels.com/red-roo-resin-148/red-roo-raaf-target-towing-beaufighter-conv-148/

Oh! I've just bought one set of decals for Trainer which I also like very much :) Thank you for the link ;) Yes I love TT's and their colourful painting makes me happy somehow 

 

Cheers!

[Sosezi]

18 hours ago, tonyot said:

Print Scale Decals include the Irish Battle on one of their sheets,... including the duck nose art;

http://www.printscale.org/product_396.html

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Print-Scale-Decals-1-72-FAIREY-BATTLE-British-WWII-Bomber-/361190055845

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Yes but it seems that Upper insignias are wrong since it looks like that IAC repainted British Roundels with their own of the same size 

so ~~~ or try to get another set of decals or use Print Scale and paint upper roundels by myself  I have those decals already  

Edited December 4, 2018 by Sosezi

[Sosezi]

7 hours ago, Biggles81 said:

Not in this case - it was because the Republic of Ireland was officially neutral in WWII and international law demanded that equipment operated by belligerent countries be impounded for the duration of hostilities if they enter neutral territory.

 

Oh! I see. seems legit then  🙂  Thanks! but for the TARGET TUG!? Brutal Irish Government🤣

Edited December 4, 2018 by Sosezi

[galgos]

Sosezi, I assume you've seen the extra photographs you asked for?

Max

 

 

[tonyot]

19 hours ago, Sosezi said:

Yes but it seems that Upper insignias are wrong since it looks like that IAC repainted British Roundels with their own of the same size 

so ~~~ or try to get another set of decals or use Print Scale and paint upper roundels by myself  I have those decals already  

Yes they have got the upper and also the lower wing markings wrong actually,....... I just included it because it had a nose art decal for you! I presumed that you had researched it properly and did not need spoon feeding!

As for the ex RAF equipment used by the Irish,...... the aircraft which force landed in Eire and which could be pressed into service were actually bought from the British government rather than being impressed and used without permission The UK government also sold aircraft to Eire for use by the Irish Air Corps including Hawker Hinds and Hectors plus other types. 

Cheers

          Tony

[Sosezi]

20 hours ago, tonyot said:

Yes they have got the upper and also the lower wing markings wrong actually,....... I just included it because it had a nose art decal for you! I presumed that you had researched it properly and did not need spoon feeding!

As for the ex RAF equipment used by the Irish,...... the aircraft which force landed in Eire and which could be pressed into service were actually bought from the British government rather than being impressed and used without permission The UK government also sold aircraft to Eire for use by the Irish Air Corps including Hawker Hinds and Hectors plus other types. 

Cheers

          Tony

So Irish Bought this Battle? 🤔

Well, you mean LOWER wing has RAF roundels overpainted with Irish ROUNDELS? not the stripes?🤔🤔

that makes me think that we know NOTHING about this Battle. because lower wing number 92 given in Black while Classic Airframes painting manual shows undersides painted black~ and that Donald Duck nose art was painted by Irish or was it painted since the RAF service?~~~ or perhaps never existed? OR!!! was she repainted several times?

 

This photo was taken soon after force landing~ no nose art as far as I can see... and perhaps she has Yellow/Black undersides (see drogue container fairing and tail cone)

this photo clearly shows that at least once in her life she has black undersides (see tail plane section and underside part nearby) ~

still many questions left but it gives me motivation to build this "QUACKING TUG" 🤣

 

Cheers

Andrey

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Sosezi

[Grey Beema]

On 12/4/2018 at 8:42 AM, Biggles81 said:

Not in this case - it was because the Republic of Ireland was officially neutral in WWII and international law demanded that equipment operated by belligerent countries be impounded for the duration of hostilities if they enter neutral territory.

 

I do know that the UK Government replaced a number of older Hurricanes that had been interned in Baldonnel with new ones for use by the Air Corps.  They were lorries down from the North and the older ones returned in the same way.  

 

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Grey Beema

[Sosezi]

18 minutes ago, Grey Beema said:

I do know that the UK Government replaced a number of older Hurricanes that had been interned in Baldonnel with new ones for use by the Air Corps.  They were lorries down from the North and the older ones returned in the same way.  

 

 

It seems at that time Irish/UK relationships weren't that bad  

[tonyot]

7 hours ago, Sosezi said:

So Irish Bought this Battle? 🤔

Well, you mean LOWER wing has RAF roundels overpainted with Irish ROUNDELS? not the stripes?🤔🤔

that makes me think that we know NOTHING about this Battle. because lower wing number 92 given in Black while Classic Airframes painting manual shows undersides painted black~ and that Donald Duck nose art was painted by Irish or was it painted since the RAF service?~~~ or perhaps never existed? OR!!! was she repainted several times?

 

This photo was taken soon after force landing~ no nose art as far as I can see... and perhaps she has Yellow/Black undersides (see drogue container fairing and tail cone)

this photo clearly shows that at least once in her life she has black undersides (see tail plane section and underside part nearby) ~

still many questions left but it gives me motivation to build this "QUACKING TUG" 🤣

 

Cheers

Andrey

 

No,.. the underside had stripes which were wider than those provided in the decal sheet, and the upper wing had the orange and green Irish Celtic Boss or `roundel', while the one on the fuselage also had a white square around it.

Max Decals do decals for this aircraft,...which are good... but they do not include the nose art Duck,.... which is why I gave you the link to the other sheet,..... so that by combining the info from both sheets you can make a decent model. Max Decals also do a sheet or tricolour Irish stripes if you do not want to paint them.

From what we know about this aircraft,..... it should have had yellow and black striped undersides in RAF service,...... but whether it did or not,......who knows? When it was repainted into Irish markings it appears to have black undersides and at first there was no Duck artwork! Later photos show the undersides to have been repainted in either a light grey (blue grey?) or silver,...... and the Duck artwork is now present,.... but when it was added,....again,...who knows?

I hope that these help;

 

Cheers

          Tony 

Edited December 6, 2018 by tonyot

[Sosezi]

33 minutes ago, tonyot said:

No,.. the underside had stripes which were wider than those provided in the decal sheet, and the upper wing had the orange and green Irish Celtic Boss or `roundel', while the one on the fuselage also had a white square around it.

Max Decals do decals for this aircraft,...which are good... but they do not include the nose art Duck,.... which is why I gave you the link to the other sheet,..... so that by combining the info from both sheets you can make a decent model. Max Decals also do a sheet or tricolour Irish stripes if you do not want to paint them.

From what we know about this aircraft,..... it should have had yellow and black striped undersides in RAF service,...... but whether it did or not,......who knows? When it was repainted into Irish markings it appears to have black undersides and at first there was no Duck artwork! Later photos show the undersides to have been repainted in either a light grey (blue grey?) or silver,...... and the Duck artwork is now present,.... but when it was added,....again,...who knows?

I hope that these help;

 

Cheers

          Tony 

Many Thanks Tony!!!

Okay! Will build her in 1/48 as EARLY Irish #92 with black undersides (Classic Airframes giving that version) and buy Max Decals for 1/72 one  

 

many thanks to everyone who helped me with the reference and explanation!! I appreciate it!! 

 

as for me Fairey Battle is the most favourite British Aircraft so I'm obsessed with this one 

 

and a Bomber with the Trainer is on the way ~ so Fairey Battling continues  ~

 

P.S which is the best reference book for the Fairey Battle? if you know please tell me 

 

Cheers!! 

Andrey

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Sosezi

[Seahawk]

15 minutes ago, Sosezi said:

P.S which is the best reference book for the Fairey Battle? if you know please tell me 
 

As far as the airframe itself goes, I can't think of a better one than Ian D Huntley's Fairey Battle (SAM Publications Aviation Guide no.1).  I believe Huntley worked for Fairey at one time so had access to a lot of archive material.  Full of interior shots.  Plans are by Richard Caruana but not sure how much influence Ian had over them.   Not so good on in-service history.  The book came out in 2004 so may not be so easy to find nowadays.

[galgos]