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John Aero

Pre-war interior colours

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This might be of interest but I was browsing through my bound issues of Aeroplane and I came across an article about a new Cellon paint, a Cellulose lacquer which was available for use on metals, in the colours Black, White, Grey and Cockpit Green. The latter is of interest as that's exactly what it was called. I recall that the issue was 1930 but I now need to find it again to pin down the date.

 

John

 

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Finally, I've tracked down the article (it's only taken three days). I was certain that it was in a Cellon article but it wasn't. It's in a very small piece in the Aeroplane of March 19th, 1930, on page 496 and the makers were Titanine -Emaillite.

 

Of small interest, Cellon produced the Gold paint used on the Gloster IV which was tested on the office radiators of the senior Manager, one Mr Barr. Cellon also doped the Supermarine S.6, but i don't know who got their radiators painted, Silver and Blue.

 

John 

 

 

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6 hours ago, John Aero said:

 It's in a very small piece in the Aeroplane of March 19th, 1930

 

About 5 years earlier than I thought.....

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Aren't these back issues of Aeroplane fascinating, John? I have 18 bounds volumes from 1941-49, 1951 and 1961, and they are a veritable font of knowledge. I love flicking through them! 

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Hi Pat,

Yes I agree, I find something new every time I look through them. When I do find something I make a pencil note on the blank flyleaves at the back.Which I initially forgot to do re the post above.

 I start my bound copies of Aeroplane at 1930 to 1939 with a number of earlier odd copies and then recommence from 1945 to 1956. 

 

My bound Flights start from 1933 to 1941, with a few wartime issues then on from 1946 into the 1970's.  I find that Aeroplane Spotter fills in the wartime gaps and I have most of those. I would like more Aeroplanes from the 1920's as I seldom find these. Flight Archive is thankfully, on line.

 

John

 

 

 

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John, you can buy Aeroplane  volumes from 1912-22 on CD on eBay:

 

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/540-ISSUES-AEROPLANE-MAGAZINE-1912-1922-biplanes-triplanes-EARLY-AVIATION-DVD/142741370458?hash=item213c0c765a:g:u9cAAOSw1vlUwptk:rk:16:pf:0

 

This company does a lot of old magazines, and I've bought some of their product including the Aeroplane one. Quality is pretty good and the price is right!

 

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On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:36 PM, John Aero said:

This might be of interest but I was browsing through my bound issues of Aeroplane and I came across an article about a new Cellon paint, a Cellulose lacquer which was available for use on metals, in the colours Black, White, Grey and Cockpit Green. The latter is of interest as that's exactly what it was called. I recall that the issue was 1930 but I now need to find it again to pin down the date.

 

John

 

John,

 

You've already determined the paint manufacturer in the old article was Titanine, and not Cellon.

I have a Titanine private/commercial aircraft paint chart from 1935 and among the chips is a color titled 'Grey Green - Shade No. TE 38'.

This color appears to be a near match for the familiar WW2 RAF interior (cockpit?) Grey Green.

 

Tim

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Thanks Paul, I'll look into that. My key area would be from 1920 to 1930 as that's where my special interests will be.  

 

Tim: 

That chart is a very useful thing to have, I too would think that the colour named as Cockpit Green mentioned in the Aeroplane, might be the same shade as TE 38 but as it is shown here as a new lacquer for metals, when it was put in the catalogue was it listed in a new section?

 

Here's the piece from the Aeroplane..

 

John

 

Neg946_zps86gagoq0.jpg

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On 12/4/2018 at 2:37 PM, John Aero said:

Tim: 

That chart is a very useful thing to have, I too would think that the colour named as Cockpit Green mentioned in the Aeroplane, probably became the shade TE 38 when it was put in the catalogue.

John

 

 

I should have mentioned that my 1935 Titanine aircraft color chart, with the TE 38 chip, is a UK chart.

I also have a Titanine USA aircraft color chart from the 1930s which contains a sample of 'Grey Green' paint.

And I have 1930s aircraft color charts from Sherwin-Williams and Fuller which also contain 'Grey-Green' paint samples so it appears this color was available from a number of aircraft paint manufacturers in the 1930s.

 

Tim

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Thank you Tim. However I think the most important part, is that the words New and Cockpit Green are used and that it was a Lacquer as opposed to a dope, for use on metal. In 1930 we are seeing predominately metal framed aircraft  joining the  British Services. It could be that this is in fact not TE.38 but a specific paint for panels and structures.  D.T.D Spec 63 will give us the answer, if it can be traced.  Conforming too.. suggests to me that the D.T.D 63 was already a specification requirement and to which these lacquers were designed to meet.

 

John

Edited by John Aero
Additional thinking

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One of the old Ian Huntley articles gave a date for the introduction of grey green as a service colour. Can’t recall when though!

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22 hours ago, John Aero said:

Thank you Tim. However I think the most important part, is that the words New and Cockpit Green are used and that it was a Lacquer as opposed to a dope, for use on metal. In 1930 we are seeing predominately metal framed aircraft  joining the  British Services. It could be that this is in fact not TE.38 but a specific paint for panels and structures.  D.T.D Spec 63 will give us the answer, if it can be traced.  Conforming too.. suggests to me that the D.T.D 63 was already a specification requirement and to which these lacquers were designed to meet.

 

John

Hi john,

 

By the early 1930s aircraft paint manufacturers were offering their color line not only in dope but also in lacquer and enamels. This is reflected in the many between-the-wars civil/commercial aircraft paint charts I have in my collection.

A small portion of my 1935 Titanine UK color chart, showing the TE 38, can be found in this PDF about Irish AF colors...

http://www.maxdecals.com/NotesonIrishAirCorpscoloursandmarkingsPart1.pdf

 

Tim

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Thanks again Tim.  Colour is in no way one of my specialist areas. Of the lacquer colours listed in the Titanine snippet, Westland frames of the Wapiti and Wallace were Black painted but the early Lysander frame appears to be Silver. Hawkers used Grey on many of their Hart family. The ex Afghan Hind of the RAFM and now in storage has a grey frame (as has the frame at Duxford) but the upper parts of the cockpit area are Grey Green. I suspect that the standard use of Cockpit Grey Green would come with the new all metal machines like the Battle etc..

 

My special interest would be the DH colours used on the Moth family.

 

John

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22 hours ago, John Aero said:

Thanks again Tim.  Colour is in no way one of my specialist areas. Of the lacquer colours listed in the Titanine snippet, Westland frames of the Wapiti and Wallace were Black painted but the early Lysander frame appears to be Silver. Hawkers used Grey on many of their Hart family. The ex Afghan Hind of the RAFM and now in storage has a grey frame (as has the frame at Duxford) but the upper parts of the cockpit area are Grey Green. I suspect that the standard use of Cockpit Grey Green would come with the new all metal machines like the Battle etc..

 

My special interest would be the DH colours used on the Moth family.

 

John

Hi John,

If you ever determine the Titanine color names or numbers for the DH Moths feel free to contact me as I may be able to help with color matches.

Besides the one Titanine UK civil/commercial color chart I also have in my collection one for Titanine USA and two for Titanine Canada (all pre-WW2 charts).

I have been collecting vintage aircraft civil/commercial color charts for decades and non-USA manufacturer charts are extremely rare, at least on this side of the Pond.

 

Tim

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