DAK Panzer IV G from a H kit, or F-2 from an E.

[modelling minion]

Hi all,

 

Very much a tank novice but would really like to build a Panzer IV (either F-2 or G) in DAK markings and wondered it is possible to use an Ausf H to model a G and what are the most noticeable modifications that would need to be done. I do actually have a model of an E (the new Zvezda kit) and wondered if that could become an F-2 with the addition of the longer barrel for the main gun and some thin plastic card for making the hull armour a little thicker in places.

I only ask as it's a lot easier, and cheaper, to get hold of decent Ausf H kits than it is F-2's and G's.

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Craig.

Edited December 1, 2018 by modelling minion

[Hepster]

Regarding the Panzer IVE, as built it had significantly different suspension to the F version.  The E had narrower tracks, and consequently narrower drive sprockets etc.  Some D/E versions had their suspension replaced later on, but I don't know if the Zvezda kit provides both options.

 

[JackG]

I think you will find the further you want to backdate from the H version, the more  details you will have to add/change.  That said, even the G version had numerous changes done during it's production, so you end up with an early, mid and late examples.  That said, the H version is very similar to the late G production.

 

Looking at the Squadron publication, the H series details you will have to address are:

- move antenna back to right upper hull side, and reintroduced the trough it folded into

- reintroduce the roof signal port

- the drive sprocket spokes are hollow, so these need filling in, bolt patterns on the face might be different?

- likely something involved with the extra frontal armour, photo reference comes handy here depending on what you want to build

- possible tool storage needs some rearrangement

 

--------------------------------------------

 

Going further back in the G series and F2 version:

 

-  gun length and single or double baffle muzzle  has to be looked at

- commander's hatch is split style

- adding back the vision ports on the turret sides and front (loader)

- adding signal ports on the deck hatches of the driver and radio operator

 

I'm sure I've missed something, so hopefully others will come along to fill that in.

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[modelling minion]

Thank you both for your responses, looks like the most do-able one would be to backdate the H to a G.

That's the one I will give some serious thought to and try to find out how possible it actually is, though I will just build my E as is as it should help me get back into armour a bit more.

Thanks again guys, much appreciated.

[JackG]

ohh, I missed your edited  bit that included Zvezda IV E.  Thing is, the kit doesn't provide the tropical engine deck covers that were used in the desert.  This detail should also be on the F2 and G versions - so another consideration. 

 

From what I've read, Zvezda did something funky with the road wheels that don't look quite right.  This is for both their H and E versions as they share common sprues.  The included tracks are 40cm (because Zvezda came out  with the H version first), but might not fit the sprockets and idler if they are of the proper E dimension.  Some other suggested fixes listed here;

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/viewtopic.php?f=47207&t=315175&p=1524732&hilit=zvezda+panzer+iv#p1524732

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by JackG

[modelling minion]

Thanks Jack, looks like building the kit OOTB won't be as straight forward as I thought either!

[AgentG]

Late G's and H's had a one piece commander's hatch. Neither of those made it to North Africa. To be accurate you will need the two piece hatch. 

 

Idler wheels changed between the H and G as well,  

 

G

[KRK4m]

Being also a tank novice (having build two Airfix 1/76 tanks some 50 years ago) I'm also considering backdating the Zvezda 1/72 Ausf.H to the Ausf.G standard.

After comparing the sprues and instruction sheets of Dragon 7549 Ausf.G and 7551 Ausf.H I can notice only very few differences: 

• the most obvious is the muzzle lenght (5mm longer in Ausf.H)
• different turret hatch (single piece in Ausf.H and two-piece in Ausf.G)
• lack of forward visor on turret front left side in Ausf.G
• different driving wheels (hollow arms in Ausf.H, solid ones in Ausf.G)
• different exhaust muffler

Moreover various authors write about the side visors (deleted in Ausf.H) and return rollers (fitted with rubber bands in Ausf.G) - both left unnoticed by Dragon. The side skirts and turret surrounding panels were variously fitted to both variants, so this depends on particular vehicle. I have also read somewhere about the differences in the turret rear trunk and armour thickness but I really wonder whether these changes can be visible in 1/72 at all.

Please correct me if I'm wrong - the Ausf.G I'd like to model is the very late production vehicle, fighting in Russia in 1943 (Wiking SS Division, STAR decals 35-1118)

Cheers

Michael

Edited March 10, 2020 by KRK4m

[badger]

On 09/03/2020 at 19:44, KRK4m said:

Being also a tank novice (having build two Airfix 1/76 tanks some 50 years ago) I'm also considering backdating the Zvezda 1/72 Ausf.H to the Ausf.G standard.

 

Hi Michael

 

I've backdated the revell 1/72 ausf h to a g.

 

I found this book very useful

https://www.amazon.com/Sd-Kfz-161-Pz-Kpfw-IV-Ausfuhrungen/dp/8391534790

 

Depending on the timeframe there's some differences in tool positions and some had smoke launchers fitted to the turret corners.

 

Hope this helps

 

All the best

Ben

[Wm Blecky]

If you plan on correcting / changing the Revell running, you may wish to check out OKB Grigorov's website.

 

Absolutely stunning sets from them.  

[Seahawk]

On 12/1/2018 at 6:58 PM, JackG said:

From what I've read, Zvezda did something funky with the road wheels that don't look quite right.  This is for both their H and E versions as they share common sprues.  The included tracks are 40cm (because Zvezda came out  with the H version first), but might not fit the sprockets and idler if they are of the proper E dimension.  Some other suggested fixes listed here;

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/viewtopic.php?f=47207&t=315175&p=1524732&hilit=zvezda+panzer+iv#p1524732

The link refers to "the road wheels and hull front errors it [the Ausf E kit] inherits from the Ausf H".  Having just picked up a couple of Zvezda Ausf Hs because I understood them to be superior to the Revell ones, I'd be interested in knowing what those errors are.

[badger]

24 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

The link refers to "the road wheels and hull front errors it [the Ausf E kit] inherits from the Ausf H".  Having just picked up a couple of Zvezda Ausf Hs because I understood them to be superior to the Revell ones, I'd be interested in knowing what those errors are.

I think this refers to the 1/35 versions not the 1/72 ones

[KRK4m]

29 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

Having just picked up a couple of Zvezda Ausf Hs because I understood them to be superior to the Revell ones, I'd be interested in knowing what those errors are.

I have started building the Zvezda 1/72 Ausf.H a week ago and I must admit that it's very difficult to imagine the kit that builds up better. It's really phenomenal - some locating lugs are half-circles of 1/40 in (!!!) diameter and the pins you put into them are 1/2000 in smaller. They fit extremely tightly and firmly, being difficult to disengage back even with no glue being used. The surface detail is so crisp, that adding any details (I 'm converting my model to the very late Ausf.G) make them looking bad and coarse despite more than 500 models standing in my cabinets.

Cheers

Michael

[KRK4m]

So the Ausf.G modified from the Ausf.H Zvezda kit is finished

Wasn't expecting great results, but even so some of you even do like it 😉

Cheers

Michael