WW2 aircraft preserved in Finland

[72modeler]

Our discussion of P-39's and the ones recovered by the Finns prompted me to look for the pair of Airacobras that were held by them for possible restoration; found a nice link to the aircraft currently preserved/restored and on display. I'm sure Antti has better photos, but the unpreserved Hurricane and Brewster 239 are especially nice, as is the Blenheim, which IIRC, is the only existing actual Blenheim and not a composite of Bolinbroke components. I hope many of you will enjoy looking at them. I think the Brewster is now back at the NAM at Pensacola, as it was on loan to the Finns for display in return for their cleaning and preserving it.

Mike

 

http://silverhawkauthor.com/warplanes-of-the-second-world-war-preserved-in-finland_587.html

[AnttiL]

Loan agreement for the Brewster is renewed and is valid until August 2020. Most probably the agreement will continue as it has from 2008. 

[Mike]

What an awesome little collection! I spent a happy few minutes perusing those pictures, and absolutely loved that worn-out Airacobra, the crashed Buffalo (mainly for their patina), and that weird Franken109 toward the end.  The VL Pyörremyrsky? I'd have less than 0% chance of ever pronouncing it correctly, but I'd build the out of it if I could.  I'll bet you 5p that there isn't a model available in 1:48 though

[Antti_K]

Excellent website Mike. I wasn't aware of it; thank you for sharing.

 

I hope you don't mind me explaining a little further. Although the Airacobra (for one) looks like it was dragged in from a swamp just yesterday, it is actually well preserved. Missing parts were purchased around the World and even made from scratch (like the head armour), the plane was cleaned in and out and paintwork retouched here and there and corrosion treated. The same goes for the Brewster and Hurricane.

 

Then there are aircraft like DC-2, Blenheim Mk. IV and (hopefully next year) VL Myrsky. These are all completely re-built airplanes and they look like new. Or in other words they are recently built.

 

The third and final "class" are those aircraft still awaiting to be restored and/or preserved; like Ripon and Caudron. Unfortunately the time is running fast for these. I was watching two Blenheim rear fuselages in a sorry state lying outside the museum's storage a couple of weeks ago.

 

Cheers,

Antti

 

 

[Troy Smith]

8 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'll bet you 5p that there isn't a model available in 1:48 though

you owe me 5p

IIRC a Japanese resin kit was done, Raccoon models? 

Something obscure and long unavailable anyway... but there was one

 

I did start to build one yeas ago the Finnish AF museum were  extremely helpful when I inquired.  and sent me xeroxes of plans and  emailed lots of detail shots.   

I was using a 109 nose and a very chopped up Hurricane, when I actually seemed to have some time and something like  a desk set up...

though I suspect that something like the South Front LaGG-3 might be a better starting point, it's a bit oversized  for a laGG-3 anyway..

 

11 minutes ago, Mike said:

Pyörremyrsky? I'd have less than 0% chance of ever pronouncing it correctly

Finnish at least is phonetic in spelling....     the only time I ever did karaoke was in Lahti,  in Finnish...  our Finnish friends will know  Poliisi Pamputtaa Taas by Eppu Normaalli , but that is a really is getting off the topic 

 

[Mike]

3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

you owe me 5p

Get Julien to give it to you, as he's closer.... ONCE and not before you've provided me with one

[Antti_K]

Terve kaikki, hello all,

 

years ago a Finnish modeller -whose name I can't remember- built a Pyörremyrsky in 1/72 scale using parts from Me-109, Brewster, Hurricane and MS-406. He published his building report in a Finnish aviation magazine called "Ilmailu". The model was on display in an aviation museum (I think it was in Vantaa).

 

I guess there will be TWO modellers tonight looking for that 1/48 scale resin kit...😄

 

Off-Topic as well: I got my Air Navigator training in England and then worked for a British survey company. The owners of that company were all ex. RAF (No. 45 Squadron Beaufighters, No. 78 Squadron Swift FR.5s and No. 543 Squadron Valiants and Victors and so on). One of them was looking at my papers and looked desperate: " I'm just going to call you Antiii, I'm not going to even try to pronounce your surname." Oh Happy Days!

 

Cheers,

Antti

[AnttiL]

Unfortunately the restoration of the VL Myrsky -fighter will not be finished until 2020. I work at the Finnish Air Force Museum as an "assistant conservator" and I've been participated in the conservation/restoration of the Hurricane and the VL Myrsky. It is very nice to hear that you guys appreciate our work and our collection. There are still many planes that need urgent preserving in better facilities. Unfortunately we suffer from lack of funding, as many other museum in Finland. You can follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/airforcemuseum/ and Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ilmavoimamuseo/ and check also our virtual museum: http://ilmavoimamuseo.fi/virtualmuseum/

I hope you don't mind my advertising, I'm also a modeller and very keen on WW2 aircraft.

[Antti_K]

Tervetuloa joukkoon AnttiL🙂

 

We were discussing about the Airacobra in another thread and I was wondering what happened to the other two examples. Do you happen to know more?

 

I was searching the Internet just now trying to find a clip showing that Storch (OH-FSA) operating out of Genbole airfield near Turku but couldn't find it. But here is another clip; watch closely at 09:20. Possibly it is the owner himself -Mr. Goran Hollsten- taking off from Helsinki-Malmi airport.

 

https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2013/07/02/miten-meista-tulee-lentajia#media=97414

 

Cheers,

Antti

[72modeler]

Antti,

 

I was glad that the website I posted was new and informative to you. Small payback for all of the knowledge you have shared with the rest of us. Question- is the Fokker DXXI an original, or is it a replica or composite built from more than one airframe? I know the one at the Soesterberg museum is a replica. The DXXI and the Myrsky II are two of my favorite Finnish fighters. If I can figure out how to post photos, I will share my 1/72 Frog DXXI I built many years ago, with a lot of parts from other airplanes and some rescribing and scratchbuilding. It's FR92, from 2TLLeLv12 with their famous kicking mule insignia.

Mike

[mhaselden]

1 hour ago, Antti_K said:

Excellent website Mike. I wasn't aware of it; thank you for sharing.

 

I hope you don't mind me explaining a little further. Although the Airacobra (for one) looks like it was dragged in from a swamp just yesterday, it is actually well preserved. Missing parts were purchased around the World and even made from scratch (like the head armour), the plane was cleaned in and out and paintwork retouched here and there and corrosion treated. The same goes for the Brewster and Hurricane.

 

Then there are aircraft like DC-2, Blenheim Mk. IV and (hopefully next year) VL Myrsky. These are all completely re-built airplanes and they look like new. Or in other words they are recently built.

 

The third and final "class" are those aircraft still awaiting to be restored and/or preserved; like Ripon and Caudron. Unfortunately the time is running fast for these. I was watching two Blenheim rear fuselages in a sorry state lying outside the museum's storage a couple of weeks ago.

 

Cheers,

Antti

 

 

 

I think the conservation work on the Airacobra and the Brewster are great examples of how museums should treat artifacts that have retained their original markings.  It would be a colossal sin (IMHO) to strip off all that original paint and slap on coats of "new stuff".  Clearly this approach can't be used in every circumstance but, in the case of these 2 airframes, we're looking at the actual paint worn when the aircraft made their final flights.  The benefits of prettying-up or making the airframes "perfect-looking" can never, in my view, outweigh the historical significance of their appearance as they are today, in original colours.  Wish I could get to Finland to see these birds myself. 

[AnttiL]

35 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Antti,

 

I was glad that the website I posted was new and informative to you. Small payback for all of the knowledge you have shared with the rest of us. Question- is the Fokker DXXI an original, or is it a replica or composite built from more than one airframe? I know the one at the Soesterberg museum is a replica. The DXXI and the Myrsky II are two of my favorite Finnish fighters. If I can figure out how to post photos, I will share my 1/72 Frog DXXI I built many years ago, with a lot of parts from other airplanes and some rescribing and scratchbuilding. It's FR92, from 2TLLeLv12 with their famous kicking mule insignia.

Mike

I'm not sure which Antti you mean, but the Fokker D.XXI in our museum is almost a replica. The fuselage consists parts of three original tubular frames welded together. Wings are 100% replicas, also the aluminium panels are new made. Still lots of original parts used. Most of the framework is from FR-110 which identifies it.

[Antti_K]

Mike,

 

I used Photobucket until they announced that you can't link into your photos from another website and that you can only upload photos if you pay... So following the suggestions (here on Britmodeller, surprise, surprise) I started to use Villagephotos. It is very easy to use, no advertisments and free of charge.

 

I too built the Frog Fokker some 35 years ago. Only thing I remember that I painted in Continuation War paint scheme.

 

As far as I know the Fokker in Air Force Museum has original tubular framework and engine but also a lot of components that were hand-built for the project. I guess AnttiL might have been involved in the actual work.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Ryan B.]

I wonder why the '109 needed a tropical filter?

 

[72modeler]

27 minutes ago, Ryan B. said:

I wonder why the '109 needed a tropical filter?

 

If you look at this photo, I would imagine in the summer months, there would be quite a lot of dust kicked up taking off, taxying, and landing; of course, having never been in Finland...

Mike

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/messerschmitt-bf-109-g-gustav-military-finland-finnish-air-force-photograph

[vppelt68]

7 hours ago, Ryan B. said:

I wonder why the '109 needed a tropical filter?

 

Just don`t think of it as a "tropical" but instead as a "sand" filter and you wonder no more. All of our major WW2 MT operating airfields were unpaved and thus dusty, as Mike guessed. Taipalsaari airfield, where the HLeLv 34 moved in late June -44, was actually dried swamp and the surface was peat... the amount of dust it generated was enormous! Some fighter pilot memoires mention the need to use goggles in flight because when you rolled your aircraft all the sand and dust gathered on the cockpit floor became airborne and filled your eyes if you weren´t prepared for it. Here´s MT-221 kicking dust from Suulajärvi airfield 12 May 1944, she was a G-2 and actually our only true G-2/Trop! Photo (c) SA-Kuva.

 

 

Another nice gadget is the Air Force Museum virtual panorama tool here: http://ilmavoimamuseo.fi/virtualmuseum/

 

Pyörremyrsky does indeed look elegant. Switch scales to one true and only, and you´ll have not one but three options: https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?fkSECTION[]=Kits&q=VMT+Pyörremyrsky* I´m not sure of their availability or quality, though!

 

Best regards, V-P

[tonyot]

The Finn`s have some superb aircraft in their museums and the Hurricane is my all time favourite,..... talk about a time capsule.

 

Cheers for sharing,

 

Tony

[FalkeEins]

Very nice - and upper surfaces in black (?) .. or it that just a dark green ?

[vppelt68]

1 hour ago, FalkeEins said:

Very nice - and upper surfaces in black (?) .. or it that just a dark green ?

Do you mean in the pic of the MT-221? That plane is indeed one of the first of the few MT:s painted in Finnish "Warpaint" of Black and Olive Green over DN- colour (read RLM 65). There´s a good representation and easy to link to at the SBS Decals website here. The MT-208 is close to identical with MT-221 in its paint scheme.

V-P

[michael_hase]

Hyvää iltaa,

 

I have to agree that the aircraft at Finnish AF-Museums are a true and reliable source for aircraft in almost original "outfit" - the paints alone are, e.g. the Brewster and the Hurricane, the source for modellers. The Hurricane sports the original 1942 "war Paint" und underneath you can see the rmeians of the original Britsh three-tone camouflage for Fighters at around 1939/1940, also the very often misinterpreted interior colours of cockpits and other parts like wheel wells etc. Additionally the new green/black/blue livery of the "War-Paint, the green of which looks somewhat like the German RLM 71. The Brewster - long may it stay where it really belongs to! - is even more the source for original paints starting with the original yellow on the upper wings going ober to the aluminium laquer on the underside with two different yellows used to mark the Axis´"East-Front" aircraft and much more. Even the repainted Bf109 G-6 is in a very original state - not to forget all the others in storage and exhibited there. The Finnish AF luckily had the idea of storing aircraft after their use for a planned museum and now we are lucky enough to have a lot of rare and unique aircraft there - be it refurbished or original. 

 

AF-Museum Tikkakoski´s staff have been the most helpful people I have met at museums around the World - always friendly and more than willing to assist. Harri helped with taking dimensions of the 109 G-6 a couple of weeks ago when I had the chance of visiting the museum at Tikkakoski and Antti kindly supplied me with the dimensions required for the "Brewster" to try to build an almost accurate B-239/F2A-1 from the Hasegawa-kit. In case you have the chance - plan enough time for looking at the models and dioramas - mostly master-class! As Lt. Col. (AF) Kai Mecklin put it, you have to do such a diorama first before you are entitled to join the museum´ s staff of conservators...

 

There is a very active community in Finland working on Finnish aircraft and AF-history , also obviously quite a few modellers, too. Unfortunately we see only few Finnish WW2-aircraft here as models or dioramas in Germany due to legal reasons although the Hakaristi has nothing to do with the Swastika used by NSDAP. The showing of the latter luckily is legally prohibited here and will be punished. Thus the Finnish hakaristi - as it looks in some ways like it - is not exhibited as well. 

 

Many, many pictures and detail pictures I was able and permitted to take and got most comprehensive information on the different aircraft. The philosophy of the museum is to conserve rather than to rebuild and the Huricane and the Brewster are - for me - the best examples how this can be done. Only minor refurbishment and keeping them as they were stored or sunk (in case of the Brewster).

 

The VL Myrsky looks excellent and there are many original parts which are either masters for the replacement parts or actually planned to be built into it.

 

I enjoyed the visit very much and certainly will come back within the next few years

 

Kiitos paljon Kai, Harri and Antti

 

Michael

 

(from Nuremberg Germany)

[vppelt68]

Our Olive Green was not RLM 71... But Humbrol 117 is often quoted being a good choice for the both of them . V-P

 

[AnttiL]

44 minutes ago, vppelt68 said:

Our Olive Green was not RLM 71... But Humbrol 117 is often quoted being a good choice for the both of them . V-P

 

 

Our paints were ordered at some time from german Warnecke & Böhm -factory, paints called Ikarol. It is within the realms of possibility that the tone actually was the same as RLM 71.

[Kari Lumppio]

2 hours ago, AnttiL said:

Our paints were ordered at some time from german Warnecke & Böhm -factory, paints called Ikarol. It is within the realms of possibility that the tone actually was the same as RLM 71.

Terve!

 

Antti, You should know better? Such statements will become a fact quite soon. 

 

No RLM 71 is ever mentioned in the orders of Ikarol paints. I researched those years ago when Sota-arkisto -archive was still working.

 

The Finnish AF olive green for warplane metal surfaces was Ikarol 291 ½/B made to Finnish colour sample. As were most of the Ikarol paints bought from Germany (codes from A to F).

 

The remarkable exception is matt Ikarol 291 /65 which was the matt light blue ("DN"-colour, RLM shade 65). Note the code is missing the "½" in paint code which I believe stands for semi-matt.

 

Finnish olive green was not RLM 71.

 

 

Cheers,

Kari

 

 

 

 

[vppelt68]

Thanks Kari ja Antti... Whatever it was, it's Hu 117 for me and that's what counts . V-P

[Antti_K]

Good evening all,

 

there is also one (at least) further resource of information here in Finland: National Library. I can't recall if it was Kari Lumppio who originally introduced this digital collection for me but here are scans of the original colour charts showing two different enamels that were used for the Eastern Front markings.

 

First example: Dicco enamel number 6 which was produced here in Finland and according to some sources was the mainly used paint.

 

 

Second example: Unica number 12, a "secondary" yellow enamel.

 

I had the chance to visit the Air Force Museum's work shop when conservation work on the Brewster had just begun. As I was looking at the colours (can you imagine!) Mr. Mecklin told me  that especially the yellow was changing it's hue by the day! I guess AnttiL or Kari might have further and more accurate info on this. The explanation however is reasonable because the aircraft had spent years under water and at the time of my visit had been exposed to air for a relatively short period of time.

 

On the other hand I think that the colours of the Airacobra are "more reliable" because the aircraft has been exposed to air all the time.

 

What do you guys think about the accuracy of the Finnish AF WWII paint set (produced by Lifecolor I think and based on the research made by Mr. Raimo Heikkinen)? Some modellers here in Finland couldn't even consider using the light blue.

 

One other thing: Thank you Michael for your kind words🙂

 

Cheers,

Antti