Revell 1/72 Concorde

[t15dja]

On 12/17/2018 at 10:09 AM, neilg said:

 

Which parts are warped?  
 

The drooping section of the nose is not symmetrical when joined...one side sticks out about 4mm wider than the side of the fuselage., also the edge where the visor sits is bent on one side. The nose cone also has two deep gouges running almost the length of it, which may have been due to an air bubble during moulding?

 

Both of these issues are fixable, but I have still emailed Revell to see if replacement parts are still available, which I somehow doubt.

[xffw45343tg]

I think that the aperture for the visor is also too big (corresponding with the overly large visor). I've not yet thought about how best to shorten the visor (perhaps @Pin did it on his build so it's worth a look) but the nose needs adjusting accordingly. It's also worth considering if you intend to address the lack of panel beneath the retracted visor. In my opinion, the visibility of the model's droop pivots really detracts but this is a personal thing.

[neilg]

14 minutes ago, Kirk said:

I've not yet thought about how best to shorten the visor

 

This build on another forum has a remodeled visor, which  looks good I think - and looks like it would hide much of the visible mechanism if it is indeed installed (it looks like the nose is fixed in the up position).

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/airfixtributeforum/airfix-1-72-concorde-t25953-s30.html

 

The panel, as well as being more accurate, hides all of this mechanism (this is from https://bornagainmodeller.wordpress.com/category/172-airfix-concorde/):

 

 

I didn't put in a panel, because I wanted to have a movable nose, and I think the panel would get in the way without having its own hinging mechanism.

 

Instead, I painted the inside of the nose dark, and all of the hinging mechanisms so none of it would be visible.

 

Otherwise, you are left with quite a visible set of linkages (this is taken from https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/airfixtributeforum/airfix-concorde-group-build-paula-dan-s-1-72-t14064-s40.html):

 

[t15dja]

I'm doing mine in flight with the nose up. I am intending to put in a panel under the visor to hide the (redundant in my case) droop mechanism and also to avoid having a void under the screen.

That build by "bornagainmodeller" seems like a good representation, although the horizontal strengtheners don't seem to be equally spaced as can be seen here:

 

 

[Sheepie]

 

Don't know if this is helpful but this is all you'd see out of the cockpit, can see the shape of the visor more 

 

(edit: we really need to give the windscreen a wash...)

Edited December 19, 2018 by Sheepie

[t15dja]

Sheepie, following your kind offer to take photos, could I also trouble you to take some close up pictures of the "shroud" (sorry, don't know its technical name) underneath the visor if you are able please, so I can see how to try and model it.

 

Also, if I can borrow one of the pictures from neilg's build here:

 

As you can see, the way the cockpit is located means that the kit's engineer's console partly obstructs the window to the rear of the first officer on the starboard side. Is it like this in real life? Again, a couple of photos of this window and its proximity to the flight engineer's console on the real thing would be most helpful.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

[Sheepie]

I’ll jump in the cockpit on Saturday to grab some more pics! The engineer’s panel should sit flush with the window, annoyingly it’s one of the many inaccurate issues with the kit but easy to fix thankfully, again I’ll take some pics on Saturday to show it

[t15dja]

1 minute ago, Sheepie said:

I’ll jump in the cockpit on Saturday .....

Many thanks for that!

 

You are a very lucky man indeed, Sheepie, to be able to just "jump in" Concorde's cockpit....I'll think of you doing that while I'm battling the Christmas traffic!

 

 

[Sheepie]

I better not mention that I’ve had a chance to fly our simulator too... the one that British Airways pilots used to train on! 

 

 

in all honesty I’m very lucky to volunteer on the team looking after DG, it’s a wonderful aircraft and Brooklands is a brilliant museum which is definitely worth a visit if you’re ever near Surrey! 

[Gimme Shelter]

2 hours ago, Sheepie said:

I better not mention that I’ve had a chance to fly our simulator too... the one that British Airways pilots used to train on! 

 

 

in all honesty I’m very lucky to volunteer on the team looking after DG, it’s a wonderful aircraft and Brooklands is a brilliant museum which is definitely worth a visit if you’re ever near Surrey! 

well done there skipper - was that Capt Bannisters voice in the background there?

[neilg]

3 hours ago, t15dja said:

As you can see, the way the cockpit is located means that the kit's engineer's console partly obstructs the window to the rear of the first officer on the starboard side. Is it like this in real life? Again, a couple of photos of this window and its proximity to the flight engineer's console on the real thing would be most helpful.

 

 

I'm looking forward to the photos that show the actual position of this console in the real aircraft (I've not seen it before!), so I don't know if this is an accurate position on the kit.

 

But I think if you install the engineer's console in the position according to the moulded lugs in the fuselage, it causes some problems:

1. The instrument panel is too far forward, which means that you cannot fit the single-piece windscreen correctly.
2. The engineer's console will interfere with the side of the  single-piece windshield when you install it.
3. You can see the gap at the back of the engineer's console (whether or not this is accurate).

I cut out the rear part of the support lug for the flight deck floor.  This photo shows the support after I cut it:

 

 

Then I was able to move the entire flight deck back, to put the engineer's console behind the side windows:

 

 

I think this is the only way that the single-piece windshield will fit, but I don't know if this is accurate.

[xffw45343tg]

I've a feeling that there is an overlap of the engineers panel and the right screen and that the problem in the kit arises because the screen is a bit (ahem) thick. Next work break I'll go and see if there is a view of this in any of the books I have...

 

I suspect @Sheepie will know though.

 

PS/ Drilled out instruments? Are you planning some lighting?

[neilg]

1 minute ago, Kirk said:

PS/ Drilled out instruments? Are you planning some lighting?

 

They're not drilled out - the Heller decals show the dials as black dots:

 

 

This is a different instrument panel to the Revell decals.

 

In the close-up photo of the engineer's console, you can see how the decals don't conform to the detail in the plastic.  I applied them exactly the same way as the Revell decals, with DecalFix, but they were really rigid.  They didn't sink into the moulding.

[neilg]

18 minutes ago, Kirk said:

PS/ Drilled out instruments? Are you planning some lighting?

 

Here's the Revell decals applied, you can see how much different they are when they conform to the detailing:

 

 

[Sheepie]

3 hours ago, Kirk said:

I've a feeling that there is an overlap of the engineers panel and the right screen and that the problem in the kit arises because the screen is a bit (ahem) thick. Next work break I'll go and see if there is a view of this in any of the books I have...

 

I suspect @Sheepie will know though.

 

PS/ Drilled out instruments? Are you planning some lighting?

 

Ah no it definitely stops before the window I promise! Have a look at this 360* of the Cockpit and you'll see what I mean http://www.concordeproject.com/virtual.html#prettyPhoto

[xffw45343tg]

Many thanks. I stand corrected. 🙂 

[t15dja]

23 hours ago, Sheepie said:

 

 Have a look at this 360* of the Cockpit and you'll see what I mean 

That cockpit view is brilliant and just what I need.....thanks!

[Sheepie]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Q5VT1nXgXyjt6pmr6 

 

Let me know if this link works, since the demise of Photobucket I've had to think of a new way to share pictures so uploaded a few from yesterday, turns out it's quite hard to get decent pics on an iPhone but hopefully they should be able to help!

[t15dja]

Yes, the link most definitely works.....many thanks for doing this. I for one will enjoy studying these photos at my leisure over the festive break.....and a happy Christmas to you too.

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by t15dja
typo

[Sheepie]

Whacked my entire phone's contents of Concorde pics I've taken over the last year on a shared folder, few from Duxford and Alpha Alpha up in Edinburgh when I was doing some work on their aircraft. Don't know how much help they'll be but at least there's some motivation in there!

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EAqkxGJK1kopygSp6

[neilg]

3 minutes ago, Sheepie said:

Whacked my entire phone's contents of Concorde pics I've taken over the last year on a shared folder, few from Duxford and Alpha Alpha up in Edinburgh when I was doing some work on their aircraft. Don't know how much help they'll be but at least there's some motivation in there!

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EAqkxGJK1kopygSp6

 

Those photos are great!  

 

I wonder why Alpha Alpha has a different Chatham scheme now to the scheme it wore when it was in service:

 

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNuCD-DwGiDzmYiqvpD9pePyMK-UleUYbMQSSrYs9dmCc-ulObRZZ08C_1RTzwjmA/photo/AF1QipPdEWcXsKUgze8IDJYVPxxkb9K2LOfLkgXD_xsF?key=UW1SclktRGJzTDY3cTBrOW1sVTVneUl6ZmdZYmF3

 

 

I have one more question - where are the nav lights positioned on the leading edge?  They're not represented at all on the model.

[xffw45343tg]

Great pics @Sheepie. Thanks for sharing. 👍

[t15dja]

Right, then, Christmas and New Year celebrations are done and dusted so it's back to the build and a progress report. You may remember that the nose cone and the two pieces back from it had moulding issues and I had emailed Braz models to see if they had any plans to produce replacements. On hearing nothing from Braz I'd emailed Revell to see if they had any replacement parts and Revell have since written back to say they have referred my request back to where their spares are kept in Germany. So I'm currently waiting to see what they say. I'll be very pleased if they do have spares (Revell's spares Dept have always been very good and have never let me down in the past), however given that this kit is (a) quite old now and (b) ex-Airfix/Heller I'm not holding my breath.  The parts I've got can be used with a bit of work.

 

So, in the meantime I've been working on the rest of the kit i.e. fuselage, tail & wings. 

 

The instructions would have you build the tail and fuselage as sub-assemblies and then join them together. However, doing it that way I thought it would be inevitable that the tail and fuselage sections wouldn't join properly so I elected to glue the left fuselage to the left tail and vice versa, see photo below, and then join the two halves once the glue had set.

There is still a seam between the tail and fuselage sections but this will be easy to fill and sand.

Once the two halves are set it's just then a matter of attaching the fuselage "bulkheads" and front wheel well and then carefully joining the two halves together, gluing a small section at a time in order to minimise any centre seam as much as possible.

 

 

Then fill the small seam between the fuselage and the tail.

 

In doing so I've noticed that main fuselage section of this kit (parts 103 and 104) is made from a much thinner grade of plastic than the tail or nose sections....has anyone else noticed this? It's very apparent if you hold the sub-assembly up to the light thus:

 

Also, the small leading section of the tail fin that is part of the fuselage is much thinner than the main body of the fin as hopefully can be seen below. In this photo I've already started to add some filler to thicken out the front section of the fin.

 

Here's a side view:

 

The tail wheel doors did not easily fit the lip of tail wheel well therefore I added a bit of sprue as support.

 

 

 

Once the doors were installed I also filled the large, out of scale indentations on the underside of the tail....

 

Before......

 

And after filling but before sanding..........

 

So with the fuselage / tail sections joined it was time to add the bottom plate that makes up the fuselage and bottom surface of the wings. I don't have a photo of this stage but suffice to say that, after much clamping and taping, the two sections went together well. 

 

The instructions would next have you glue the upper wings to the bottom wing plate and fuselage. I chose to do this slightly differently in that I glued the upper wing sections to the fuselage sides but not to the lower wing plate. In doing it this was I think I have achieved a pretty good upper wing to fuselage joint that hopefully will require minimal filling and sanding. Once the upper wing / fuselage joint was thoroughly dry I then glued the upper and lower wing surfaces together, which brings me to here (ignore the undercarriage door for now - more on that later):

 

There was quite a large gap between the front fuselage and the front of the wing plate that I had to shim with thin styrene sheet, trim and sand.

Before....

 

After....

 

 

 

I noticed that this does leave quite a visible seam between the lower wing plate and the upper wing sections that will require filling, since photos of the real thing show this area to be smooth.

 

Outer lower wing sections were then glued in. This left a noticeable gap the whole length of the joints. I understand that most of these joints will be covered by the engines however just in case I added in some shims of thin styrene sheet, which will be trimmed and sanded.

 

Moving onto the wheel wells, I'm doing Concorde in flight so all the gear doors have to be closed up.....another problem! All of the doors, both front and main, have very little lip to sit on so I've had to glue spare sprue to the inside of the doors and then trim it to the right length so the doors fit flush with the fuselage:

 

Main gear doors #1

 

 

Main gear doors #2

 

I also had to do the same with the front gear doors.

 

 

So, here we have a photo of the underside with all gears doors attached as flush as possible, and all wing sections glued. Gaps abound!

 

Once again, I used shims of thin styrene sheet to fill the larger gaps, the rest will be filled and sanded.

 

Did I mention which filler I've been using? Well it's this:

Revell's filler is smooth to apply but does dry fast so you have to work quickly. It does sand beautifully smooth, though.

 

So, here's a picture of the underside with filler applied but not sanded. The masking tape is to avoid getting filler into the the panel lines.

 

And here's the result after initial sanding:

 

That brings me right up to date. Next stage will be to apply a few shots of primer to see what further filling and sanding of the various joints will be required.

 

Oh...........and by the way......I also want to do a Concorde with wheels down and in Landor livery, so I couldn't believe it when I recently managed to pick this up from ebay for the princely sum of £22 plus postage!

 

To be continued.....

 

[Sheepie]

Good work! The stresses of the kit are certainly showing, you can see where the rear fuselage section was moulded in a different factory compared to the mid section huh! What I will say on the Airfix packaging is that the decals are pretty awful, so it might be worth going down the third party route with DrawDecal or F-DCAL, just remember that the windows are too big on the kit and the doors are the wrong size too, so it's worth filling those in!

 

 

[t15dja]

4 hours ago, Sheepie said:

 just remember that the windows are too big on the kit

 

 

Yes, I did read that the windows on the kit are oversized. Unfortunately that was after I'd joined the fuselage halves so I can't do my usual trick of making a long thin "worm" out of milliput, pushing it down onto the windows from the inside of the fuselage and then cutting off, smoothing and sanding the bits of milliput that get squeezed out through the window holes. I could try doing the same from the outside in to the fuselage but I'd be worried that after sanding the milliput wouldn't have enough surface area of the fuselage to grip on to i.e. the milliput "windows" might eventually fall inside the fuselage. What do you reckon?