qn30jEkPz7 Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Aha! After scanning and a bit of figuring out I finally understand why my DH108 just never worked. The cross sections I was working from just don't work. They were right in height but the shapes and widths were all out of whack and there must have been several derivative drawings all reproducing the same error. After going back to the literal drawing board I think I'm getting somewhere but as usual I've got too many ideas and projects on the go. In order to exacerbate my already scrambled and slow work I've added yet another project to the mix. If you like British design oddities and prototypes you may also be interested in a thread I've started over in the "They also serve" Group Build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 Back to the Swallow drawing board in order to make a step forward. I've sat and attempted to rework the drawings to correct (in as far as I can interpret the 3-view) the cross sections With a bit of luck the revised cross sections, wing sections etc. will let me start over on a bit of a firmer footing 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 On 10/01/2020 at 09:33, LostCosmonauts said: Aha! After scanning and a bit of figuring out I finally understand why my DH108 just never worked. The cross sections I was working from just don't work. They were right in height but the shapes and widths were all out of whack and there must have been several derivative drawings all reproducing the same error. there are a set of DH 108 drawings by A.L. Bentley, that were originally published in Scale Models in the early 80's, I have the mag, bit would have to hunt it down, which maybe better, his drawings are usually noted for their accuracy. They should be available from him direct now as well. Regarding finishing, have you tried Halfords plastic primer filler? Recommended by @John Aero, if of interest, I'll dig out the info, got to go out in a mo now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Thanks @Troy Smith if you have it relatively easy to hand that’d be handy. I was looking at that online last and comparing against the ones I scanned. They may as well have been different planes as the profiles are totally different and if you scale to the wingspan the fuselages end up totally different in length and other proportions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said: if you have it relatively easy to hand that’d be handy. Hi Just sent a PM, but this was a thread on the which maybe of interest. the Halfords Filler Primer is this https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-body-repair/car-spray-paints/halfords-filler-primer-500ml comes in 300 Ml can as well. Used with a sanding block could help fill the ridges well? A question, are the ridges the same size whatever the scale? So say in 1/48th thre would be more, but they would in effect be finer? cheers T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Troy Smith said: A question, are the ridges the same size whatever the scale? So say in 1/48th thre would be more, but they would in effect be finer? In Fused Deposition Modelling printers like I have the step shapes and size depend on the print head and movements rather than scale. The digital model should be smooth and uniform but the resolution of the printer creates the steps. For printers like mine you’ve got a nozzle width that sets your X and Y minimum line width (notmally 0.4mm) while the layer height creates the steps (for models I use 0.1 or 0.12mm). You can tell the printer how to treat gaps or spaces where the line or surface width is below the resolution of the printer and I tend to tell it to fill that space so that I can sand back the step. For the DLP resin printers the resolution in X and Y is based on the pixel size of the LCD mask that defines the non-curing area so can be a bit smaller (0.1 to 0.04mm is common) and smaller step heights can be used. For stereolithography resin printers it depends on laser optics but you can almost (depending on optics, diffusion kinetics in the resin and vibration control the building) get down to 500nm but that is beyond hobbyist kit. In any case they’d be the same regardless of scale - a model would look better and less steppy the bigger you went. Thanks for the tip on the filler. Very useful indeed. Edited January 14, 2020 by LostCosmonauts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 That other Swallow thread is really useful. Maybe explains the source of the distortions as well. Thanks for the PM @Troy Smith - Should have a copy of those plans (potentially either a godsend or a third source of confusion) by end of this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Courtesy of the tip from @Troy Smith I now have the November 1981 copy of Scale Models magazine complete with plans. Hopefully I'm the only remaining source of errors and omissions. It seems like the scan I had been working from had been stretched vertically which threw everything else out Edited January 17, 2020 by LostCosmonauts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) Too long, no update. Other stuff has been occupying me and I keep getting distracted by other projects and ideas. A summary of what is ongoing and where we’re at: DH108 - new drawings scanned so that is starting from scratch for (I think) a fourth time DH110 - new one. Courtesy of @TheBaron and his Sea Vixen opus I have the scarred and beaten remnants of a Frog FAW.2 I’ve started hacking at it with a variety of sharp tools and getting drawings together but I probably need to clear some other projects before I can start in ernest. Miles M.52 I’m happy with. I thought I had maybe made a mess of it and made it underscale but comparing to new 1/72 drawings it looks ok. @The Wooksta! has requested the 3/10th scale unmanned variant so that is freshly on my to-do list. At least one fellow Britmodeller has had a go at the resulting kit and made a fine job of it (certainly better than I did) so hopefully that’ll appear on his RFI in due course. The Vickers Type 582 is subject of another thread but the 3D design is coming together and I might be able to run a test print next week or thereabouts. The RAE twin engined interceptors designs simply referred to as Design with engines in the Fuselage & Design with Engines in Nacelles from their 1952 paper “An investigation into an aircraft to fly at a mach number of 2, Aero.2462” have both had test prints. I can see a few modifications necessary to make these more model-able e.g. beefing up the joints and mating surfaces but the general shapes are ok With a Hunter and Lightning for scale Edited January 27, 2020 by LostCosmonauts 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 Modification of the M.52 to give a model of the 3/10th scale rocket powered drone seems to have gone ok. (Ignore the estimated print cost - I've no idea how Microsoft come up with their numbers but assume it must be ties to shapeways ro some one like that) Am going to try printing it off in 4 sections to see how it looks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 On 29/01/2020 at 17:04, LostCosmonauts said: Am going to try printing it off in 4 sections to see how it looks ... and the answer is... not very good. Flying surfaces are too far below the printer resolution to work. With a bit of old fashioned modelling it might well turn out ok and would probably be fine on a resin printer but not the FDM machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) More grist for the mill - couple of Novo kits So my planned timeline is: RAE designs 1 and 2 - 3D print Vickers type 582 - 3D print Canberra derived P.12 all weather fighter - Novo kit with 3D printed radome, wing extensions and missile rails Hawker P.1052 - Novo Sea Hawk fuselage with 3D printed wings DH108 - 3D print DH110 - Frog kit with 3D printed radome, boom modifications and wing plugs oh, and I’ve got 2 laser cut Hardened Aircraft Shelters to finish and umpteen normal modelling projects on the go. Is it any wonder my work spaces are too cluttered Edited February 20, 2020 by LostCosmonauts 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritJet Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 This might save you some time and effort - Canberra P12 conversion Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 50 minutes ago, BritJet said: This might save you some time and effort - Canberra P12 conversion Thanks, I’d heard about that but I’m looking at it as a step along the learning curve toward integrating 3D print and conventional kits. Hopefully won’t be a big investment of either time or effort. I’ll need to print off a belly plug anyway (my other option for using the Novo Canberra was to make the B 1 (8) prototype in gloss black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 3 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said: Hawker P.1052 - Novo Sea Hawk fuselage with 3D printed wings Will not work. Hawker P.1052 has a canopy of a different style than Hawker Sea Hawk. B.R. Serge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Aardvark said: Will not work. Hawker P.1052 has a canopy of a different style than Hawker Sea Hawk. B.R. Serge Good point, I’ll hopefully be able to find or make something to suit. I’ll do my best Edited February 20, 2020 by LostCosmonauts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattlow Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 You could do something similar to the P.1052 (i.e. mostly a change of wings) with the Supermarine Attacker to make a Type 510 - I think... Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritJet Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Mattlow said: You could do something similar to the P.1052 (i.e. mostly a change of wings) with the Supermarine Attacker to make a Type 510 - I think... Matt ....and to make the Handley Page HP88. Steve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattlow Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, BritJet said: ....and to make the Handley Page HP88. Yes, that's a good looking conversion... Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) @Mattlow & @BritJet Those are good ideas & very much on my to-do list. Have a thread in the Wanted section for the necessary Attackers https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235065686-any-flavour-of-172-westland-whirlwind-and-supermarine-attackers/ Edited February 20, 2020 by LostCosmonauts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) V2.0 of the RAE fighter with engines in nacelles has come out nicely. Sorted out some issues and looking just about acceptable. Now I just need to wait for the glue to dry and start thinking about colours and markings Edited March 2, 2020 by LostCosmonauts 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangseat Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Inspiring stuff! Particularly that you've such great results from one of the extraordinarily affordable Chinese kit printers. So they do work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Bangseat said: So they do work! They do (albeit with some care and attention to assembly) - I may have been lucky but other than the plastic extruder (which I replaced after 8 months use with the metal extruder they included in the package) slowly wearing through as the filament rubbed past it I’ve not had to do much to it. A couple of failures with a blocked nozzle but otherwise trouble free out of the box If you look on printer forums and groups they’d have you upgrading, modifying and buying extras straight away but I think that’s just like modelling in that people like fettling and embellishing Edited March 3, 2020 by LostCosmonauts 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 We may, and note I am only saying may for now, just be getting somewhere with the DH Swallow The basic shape is coming together … and with a bit more work it may even from some angles start to look a little bit elegant 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Those look like fun I'm going to have to petition for a 1:48 Miles M.52 though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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