Avro Lancastrian

[Head in the clouds.]

Hi folks

A future project as the title suggests is to build a Lancastrian however it will be an engine testbed which surprisingly was not hard to find a conversion for but what I am looking for is any information on the subtle differences between Lancaster and Lancastrian. I have found some such as the window shape/size on the fusalage and the odd antenna, the conversion covering all the major items.

The base kit will be Airfix BI(FE)BIII 2014 kit in 1/72.

Information and books on the Lancastrian on first efforts of searching seem to be thin on the ground so any pointers would be much appreciated

 

Many thanks

 

Gary

[Graham Boak]

Air Britain has just published a book on the Lancastrian and the York which covers the history of every example of the types.  Whether it does a Lancaster vs Lancastrian detail survey of the kind beloved of modellers may be another matter, but I suspect it will have enough photos to determine the external changes, at least.

 

I suspect the first problem to look for will be whether the Lancastrians had the later deep tropicalised radiators which are not provided in the kit - I think that's the case.  But of course testbeds could be exceptions to pretty well any rule you can come up with.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Graham Boak

[Head in the clouds.]

Thanks Graham, I will add that book to my Santa list.

Good point about the tropicalised radiators, more research should answer the question but not how to rectify the issue.

Cheers.

[JWM]

The rudders looks loke those of late Yorks 

Btw - interesting take of Lancastrai VM 701 taken in April 1945 in Chine is here:

https://www.hpcbristol.net/visual/rb-t0882

Here from the same vist 

 

 

Hmm... - This is an interesting subject for convesion...

Cheers

J-W

 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by JWM

[Head in the clouds.]

9 minutes ago, JWM said:

The rudders looks loke those of late Yorks 

Thanks JMW I will investigate further.

 

Nice pictures too, a couple have I not seen before.

[Admiral Puff]

The Lancastrian was very much a stop-gap for BOAC until the Tudor became available. Most of the differences from the Lancaster are apparent from the available photos - turrets removed, nose, mid-upper and tail fairings, fuselage windows. Most had the Lincoln-style rudder trim tabs as shown above. The internals were different, obviously - the first ones had a row of seats backing up against the port fuselage side, later ones had conventional athwartships seating, and the cockpit was set up for two-pilot operation. There were other minor differences, but these varied almost from airframe to airframe. Most, particularly those operating in tropical climes, had a Lincoln-style air intake on the starboard fuselage above the wing root - this was for an air conditioner in an attempt to keep the passenger cabin cool(ish). Note in the pictures above that the perspex in the canopy over the pilots' seats has been replaced with metal; this feature was quite common and in many instances (the four Qantas aircraft, for example) it extended back to the astrodome. Its purpose was to keep the cockpit a bit cooler and save the crew from being fried!

[Graham Boak]

A transport Halifax in what appears to be a SEAC roundel - interesting!  Shame that C-46 or whatever it between them is blcoking the view.

[krow113]

That's a Halton , the Halifax transport variation.

editd: Halton is the correct name.

Cool pics.

Edited November 26, 2018 by krow113

[dogsbody]

2 hours ago, krow113 said:

That's a Halston , the Halifax transport variation.

Cool pics.

Would a Halton have a clear nose?

 

 

Chris.

[krow113]

I dont have the FM kit any more , someone actually bought it , I think do remember a clear nose variant .

And you can see the cargo bulge at the rear ,that was my indicator.

[EwenS]

Given that the photograph is dated to November 1945 and was taken in China the most likely candidate for the Halifax is an A.VII  of 298 squadron. According to the Aeroplane Icons publication on the Halifax, some 17 A.VII of this squadron, tropicalised and fitted with the ventral large freight pannier, flew out to India in July 1945. They were intended to support an Airborne Corps being built up in India at that time. Based at Risalpur they carried out operations throughout south east Asia. That publication refers to them making flights “over the hump” to China and specifically Kunming where the photo of the Lancastrian was taken. These aircraft carried SEAC roundels but no squadron codes.

The only other unit operating Halifaxes in the Far East at this time was 1341 flight, but it had disbanded at the end of October 1945.

The A.VII had a clear nose.

Edited November 26, 2018 by EwenS

[Graham Boak]

The only Haltons were the handful of aircraft converted to BOAC specifications: they had a solid nose and a silver finish.  All other civil Halifaxes were just Halifaxes.  This one isn't even civil but an RAF aircraft.  I think that Ewen has correctly identified it: I was thinking also of a C. VIII but these do not seem to have operated in other than in Transport Command colours.  (Merrick does have a picture of one slight oddball Mk.VIII in black but the photo was taken at HP's factory.)

[Ossington 2]

Mk. I & II Lancastrians had seating arranged along one side so that passengers face the inside wall of the fuselage, whereas in Mk. III & IV's the seats are arranged in single rows with an aisle in between. Seven seats on the port side and six to starboard, to allow for the entrance door.

Length overall, all versions, is given as 76 feet ten inches. Don't know the split between the nose and tail alas. Source: Aeroplane Spotter, Feb 7th. 1946, page 33. ( I just happened to have scanned that issue last night)    

[krow113]

I remember the FM instructions having the Halton in blue finish as well as silver.

[Graham Boak]

It would be a Halton only if it was one of the 14 BOAC examples, which were sold on after a fairly short time, and they are recognisablee by their rectangular windows and the registration G-AHDx.  However the blue aircraft were London Aero & Motor Services Halifax C Mk.VIIIs, of which G-AHZJ is often represented - for example in Merrick's last book.  The majority of the Haltons went to Bond Air Services or Westminster Airways:  G-ADHV appears to have been the only Halton tanker conversion, or at least the only one recognised as such in The Halifax File. These retained their silver finish.  For something more colourful, Eagle Airways also operated all-red Mk.VIIIs, as Corgi modelled.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Graham Boak

[Work In Progress]

Am I right in thinking that all Lancastrians were without bomb bay doors, but have a slightly different set of contours to the belly, permanently-skinned? Or have I hallucinated that? (I might have.)

[Max Headroom]

12 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

Am I right in thinking that all Lancastrians were without bomb bay doors, but have a slightly different set of contours to the belly, permanently-skinned? Or have I hallucinated that? (I might have.)

It took a bit of digging but this is the only picture I could find of a Lancastrian with an open bomb bay

 

https://goo.gl/images/8aVcCA

 

Trevor

[Dave Swindell]

Lancastrians had a completely remanufactured fuselage, it wasn't just a case of removing turrets and fairig over the holes, especially the rear turret. The fuselage taper in profile was different (shallower) ahead of the tailplane on the lancastrian, so any conversion that just replaces the turrets with fairings is wrong.

[dalea]

Thanks, Dave. Now what do I do with the conversion I've just ordered?

[Ivor Ramsden]

10 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

It took a bit of digging but this is the only picture I could find of a Lancastrian with an open bomb bay

 

https://goo.gl/images/8aVcCA

 

Trevor

The bomb bay doors aren't open, Trevor, it's a trick of the light. If you look closely at the door area this photo shows the fairings over the fuel pumps (or something else to do with the bomb bay fuel tanks - I don't have my references to hand) in this aircraft. Not all Lancastrians have these fairings.

The most obvious difference to my eyes - and it's not THAT obvious unless you look hard at sideways-on photos - is the bottom of the fuselage in the bomb bay area is parallel with the top. The rear end of the fuselage is also different but I don't think it's noticeable in 1/72 scale.

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Ivor Ramsden

[Mancunian airman]

I think you are right with your observation of the photograph.

If you follow the line of the bomb bay doors, you can clearly see that they dont appear open at the very front end. 

 

https://goo.gl/images/8aVcCA

 

A trick of the light but as Ivor pointed out, there is a fairing (?) or reshaping of the actual doors towards the back end of the former bomb bay.

[Ossington 2]

So all Lancastrians had shallow, parallel- with- the -roofline bomb bay skinning, like the early Manchester then? Except that they didn't open. How was the mail/luggage accessed then? An external hatch or an internal one cut into the bomb bay roof?

[Ivor Ramsden]

There were holds for freight at the front and back. Presumably freight would also have been carried in the main fuselage as well if the aircraft was used as a freighter. There's more on the Lancastrian here:

 

[Head in the clouds.]

16 hours ago, dalea said:

Thanks, Dave. Now what do I do with the conversion I've just ordered?

Build it, as long as you don't want to fly in it,  I am sure it will still look like a Lancastrian. I have a conversion set too but I will do the best I can with what I have.

 

Thanks for all your replies, I think more digging is needed to clarify some of the pertinent points you have raised.

 

Cheers.

[Sky dancer]

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but I'd always wanted to do this Lancastrian:-

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205127027

 

It may be civil - but it was used in wartime.

 

A query - many, many years ago Flypast magazine did a feature on converted bombers used by BOAC and Qantas. This stated that Lancastrians and LB-30's used on the U.K. - India/Australia route used a two-tone line (as in the photo in the IWM link) below the registrations instead of the usual red/white/blue line. Flypast suggested that the two-tone lines were in SEAC dark blue/pale blue (Indian white).

 

There are only a few photos out there, some of which look underexposed, but I am unsure if these lines were two-tone blue, or just blue/white.

 

Does anyone have a definitive answer?

 

SD