Airfix 1/144 727 Fuselage Crease

[DMC]

Browsing through a vendor's offerings at Telford yesterday, I espied a rather forlorn looking Airfix 727 kit, Pan Am livery.  The price was right so after a cursory inspection I paid the asking price and brought it home.  That evening, a more through inspection revealed a rather distinct crease running the length of the fuselage, fore and aft.  This crease is absent on the Revell 727 and, after a bit of research, I am wondering why Airfix choose to mould it into their kit as I believe it was done away with after Boeing gave up on their Model 367, which had a crease, and dropped it on their 707.  I'll include a link in a moment that has a photo of a 1:1 cross section and there is no crease, just a flat space where Airfix have placed their crease.

 

Down the page a little on this link there is a cross section photo of a 727 fuselage.  There is a flat area on the side where the crease would be but I see no crease.  Nor do I see a crease on any of the many 727 photographs I have looked at.  

 

I have looked at a few build reviews on the Airfix kit but can’t remember any crease being mentioned.  

 

 

https://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2017/06/boeing-727-cockpit-syracuse-hancock-airport/

 

 

I'm new to airline modelling and am finding the learning curve pretty steep.  I welcome all comments, enlightenments and even criticisms.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

 

[Turbofan]

Hi Dennis,

I don't know where you got the idea Boeing did away with the lobe crease after the Model 367. It is present in all 707, 727, 737 and 757 aircraft.

Please see this thread on airlinercafe in particular post 69765.

https://www.airlinercafe.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=10631 which is primarily about the 737 but does mention the lobe crease on all Boeing narrowbodies.

I think the lobe crease on the Airfix 727 may be rather heavily done but it is definitely there on the real aircraft.

Cheers,

Ian

[noelh]

The crease does exist on 727s but it's hard to see in many photos. Perhaps it's a bit overdone by Airfix though. 

Google Air Contractors Boeing 727. (My former employer). It's easier to see the line  on weathered grimy cargo aircraft. 

Hey snap with Turbofan!

Edited November 11, 2018 by noelh

[DMC]

Hi Ian,

 

Well, fifth paragraph down “ the sides were smoothed out and did not have the pronounced crease”.   Of course the reference was for the 707 but as the 727 came after the 707 I took it to mean that it had no “pronounced crease” either.

 

http://www.aviation-history.com/boeing/707.html

 

In this photo I see no crease, in the second I see a flat area but not what could be called a crease.  However, I bow to superior knowledge and accept your assurances that there is a crease.  And, that it has been very over-creased by Airfix.

 

https://www.airteamimages.com/boeing-727_C-GFXA_first-air_27521.html

 

https://www.airteamimages.com/boeing-727_G-OSRB_t2-aviation_283452.html

 

Cheers, and thanks for enlightening me.

 

Dennis

 

 

[DMC]

Second photo down: now that is a crease.

 

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/21523/why-is-the-fuselage-on-an-airliner-circular-shaped

 

Dennis

 

[Turbofan]

Hi Dennis,

Yes I see what you mean re the 707 history webpage. I'm not very familiar with the Model 367 maybe it did have a very pronounced lobe crease much like the B377 Stratocruiser in your other link, which was smoothed out but it is still there. Your linked pictures certainly highlight how subtle it is!

There are some pics on this page where it is a little more obvious.

http://www.aircraft-pics.com/page11.html

Cheers,

Ian

 

 

[DMC]

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks to that link on #2 I now am throughly clued in on the double-lobe and I even can see a hint of it on a few of the photos in the second link. It is, however, to me at least, more of a flat area than a crease.  I can ignore it on the Revell build, which I am really enjoying, and deal with it on the Airfix kit when I get around to starting it.  The whole subject has been very interesting and I am really impressed by the vast store of knowledge available to modellers of any genre. 

 

Dennis 

[noelh]

Yes Dennis, that's the great thing about BM. There's always someone who knows.

Sometimes it's even me, to my surprise. I spent a lot of time around 727s with a modeller's eye and a bunch of now vintage aircraft.

Slightly more disturbing is that I've become 'historic'. 

But I think we owe it to the next generation to pass on our knowledge.

Edited November 11, 2018 by noelh

[DMC]

Thank you @noelh.  Good to know that there is someone I can go to who has had first hand experience on the 727.   An airplane I am especially interested in now. 

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Turbofan]

Hi Dennis,

I agree it is a subtle crease which is invisible with many liveries. Which airline are you planning for this one?

Can I direct you to a recently finished 727 here on Britmodeller which includes some tips on creating a more accurate model.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235042005-boeing-727-iberia-1144-airfix-with-26decals/&tab=comments#comment-3107588

John frequently posts here and is a master at improving old and inaccurate kits.

Cheers,

Ian

[DMC]

Thanks Ian, I know that build and even posted a reply.  My livery choice is the Easter delivery scheme, Golden Falco I believe.  I have just been notified by Vintage Flyer that they are on the way.  The 727 was the second jetliner that I flew on and the carrier could have been any of those that flew the Boeing back in the late sixties.   It could have been Eastern but I don’t remember as it was almost fifty years ago.  I do remember, however, that the rate of climb was very steep and there was curious grinding metallic sort of sound.  The stewardess told me it was quite normal.  Funny the things you remember.

 

Dennis

[tempestfan]

I am not an airliner guy but I ***think*** I read ***somewhere*** that later 707s had the crease faired over. No idea if there's any truth in that as it would mean some dead weight, OTOH it would slightly dminish the overall surface area and hence probably have a slight positive influence on drag. 

Again, not being an airliner guy, but Boeing's "8" cross section was I think used for structural reasons, with the "crease" in the position of the internal floor, which IIRC was advantageous from a weight perspective compared with a "fully" circular cross section. And as the main fuselage for the 07/27/37 was based on a kit principle, any lack of crease (unless faired over) would indicate a redesign of the fuselage. IIRC, both the Heller 1/72 and Airfix 144 707s (and the derivatives of the Heller kit - I'm thinking of the Airfix Sentry) have a rather pronounced crease.

 

Edit: Here the crease is also fairly nicely visible, though it is quite subtle. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by tempestfan
Adding the link to another thread

[DMC]

Great, more on “the crease” and welcome it is.  I am only myself just transitioning into airliners and have a lot to catch up on.

Very much appreciated @tempestfan.

 

Dennis

[tempestfan]

 @DMC, really nothing to thank for. There aren’t that many sources where I may have picked up that info:

D&S 707 and derivatives

D&S KC-135

Stewart Wilson book, or

a piece in SMI ca. 1985.

Incidentally, I think your pic of the primered fuselage very effectively shows the influence of the surrounding surface finish - hardly any trace of the crease left. I suspect many of the contemporary paint schemes played a big part in making it disappear, it seems the flat grey of the Iberia scheme in the other thread ran right along the crease, so it would annihilate much of the reflections required to clearly perceive it.

BTW, the husband of my godmother (?) was an LH 727 captain. I built the Revell 727 as a boy around 1981, and I never liked it. Those recessed windows hardly compatible with the decals, the unglazed cockpit, the rivets any Airfix hater would have left a comment on (if it had been an Airfix kit... Airfix airliners have always been clean), and that thoroughly unfit-for-purpose stand...

Your 727 will unmistakably look like a 727. I don’t think LH -200s had the „white fin/small fried egg“ earlier scheme, or did they?

Edited November 13, 2018 by tempestfan

[Sonoran]

All Boeing narrow body airliners have a very visible lobe crease, right up to the current 737 MAX family.  Every single one.

 

The reason for that is thanks to Douglas Aircraft, whose paper airplane DC-8 was announced as six-abreast in 1955, forcing Boeing to widen the upper lobe of the 707 to meet the competition.   Originally the 707 was to have had five-abreast seating.

[DMC]

17 hours ago, tempestfan said:

Your 727 will unmistakably look like a 727.

Thanks @tempestfan, sure hope so.  Not sure about the LH-200 scheme, still very much the newbie.

 

11 hours ago, Sonoran said:

All Boeing narrow body airliners have a very visible lobe crease,

Not disputed, @Sonoran, opinions seem to vary, however, on how obvious the crease is.  In some photos I detect a flat area, not a crease, in others not even a hint of a crease.  Up close and personal, I suppose it’s more obvious.  

 

Thanks for the input.

 

Dennis

 

 

 

[bzn20]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 9:26 PM, DMC said:

first hand experience on the 727

I've drilled out hundreds of 3/16 Csk -DD rivets out of that lap joint on that section change to get the corrosion and remove the anti fret/interface Melonex tape between the joint on a Dan's ex Japan Airlines 727-46  G-BAFZ … I wished they didn't have one but I was stuck with it and was a pain . Luckily the Dan-Air guys decided to strike and I ended up on ex Northwest 707-351C and American -323 in the snow unluckily ! Lasham Jan 1985

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by bzn20

[bzn20]

5 hours ago, DMC said:

I detect a flat area, not a crease

The top skin is over the bottom skin and flat ish but it does change section below that lap joint and not a crease as such , shaped . The thickness of paint can wreck the effect and white is harder to make out . The rivets were invisible and took some finding . The 727 has the same upper fuse as the 707 but different lower fuse , the 737s had a different lower fuse to both. Best view is on the NMF American Airlines first 727s in the AstroJets scheme  (Red Lightning bolt cheatline )

Edited November 14, 2018 by bzn20

[DMC]

 

3 hours ago, bzn20 said:

The top skin is over the bottom skin and flat ish but it does change section below

Hi, 

 

Okay, I realise that that’s not a 727 but it’s a pretty clear picture of what a crease must look like on a 727.  In the one below that I can just barely make out the crease.  Quite like the livery and the NMF.

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=GOWn%2fPor&id=3DA8E575F5FE68D933A9DE6E6ACA679C43184310&thid=OIP.GOWn_Poru4vbV67FshEAfQHaEK&q=boeing+727+aa+astrojet&simid=608040356761698345&selectedIndex=97

 

 

 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=ESVamRWt&id=9B3753AA626C76FD82A47C58BE03BECF7112DAE8&thid=OIP.ESVamRWt4Z660gNgDkha-gHaEU&q=boeing+727+aa+astrojet&simid=608030529851753747&selectedIndex=25

 

Almost like a scribed line.

 

Dennis

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by DMC
Spelling

[bzn20]

28 minutes ago, DMC said:

clear picture

This zooms up Click on Large and go to 200% .  Quite pronounced on this one and looks sharper than your kit .

Edited November 14, 2018 by bzn20

[bzn20]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

top skin is over the bottom skin

Having zoomed that photo right up , I realised that the job  I was working in 85 was on the lap joint  about a foot lower than the skin kink  . You can see that quite clearly on that pic . The kinked / shaped skin is one piece.