Flying a council house from the upstairs loo

[Tramatoa]

And had the powers that be not decided to put XR525 on a silly plinth ten feet off the floor we would probably never seen this:

 

 

 

So only the rear four are present here, it seems there is quite a lot of randomness in this hole cutting which definitely places the Avionic Trade Groups in the frame......... and before anyone comments I’m not suggesting they actually cut a hole in anything 🙄.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Tramatoa

[perdu]

The Anatomy Of A Wessex, you could write the text book

 

Those mysterious hole/panels only seem to be on the starboard side too

 

I have gazed almost lovingly at the belly of XR525 on many an occasion and each new time I find another thing I missed for my next model of her

 

What grey is this?

 

Why a white lamp surround?

 

Where does the colour actually change?

 

The first actual close up I ever had with a Wessex was having one hover over me like 525 when it picked up some of my patrol at Castlemartin then buggered off and left me driving the Air Portable Rover

 

Spitting feathers

 

[Pete in Lincs]

Yes, those look like blind (pop) rivets to me.  Two rows suggests either they are structural or the inner ring of rivets are holding something in place.

Access for a wiring mod sounds good. The size of the panels mean you could just get a hand in there.  If it's just the HC2 could it be Nitesun? 

What fits onto the grey stub on the left? I can't remember. But could the panels be for heavy duty wiring to this area?

 

[perdu]

Weapons mounting pylon?

Sensor packs?

[Alan NG]

First of all, thanks for all the replies, and Yes I have read the posts from Hendie about his 1/48 and the on going battle of Fly 1/32 Wessex, learnt a lots from it.

 

There are small disc on both side of the lower fuselage, you can see clearly from the Pete's photo above, with black dots (Post #403) but you can found them on both side, so it should not be for Nitesun?  I do not know how to post photos here yet, but a quick search from most of the HC2, you will found them if you look carefully.  Even the Mk 4 of the Queen's Flight, in Red, but those small black dots, so there must be a purpose of them?  Just want to confirm it they are HC2 only as I could not find them on HU5?

 

Those larger round plates with double rivets are even more mystery, and it seems Fly get them right with number and locations?  Not just the HAR2 has them, the HC2 have them too, but this photo show them very cleary?

http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/explanatione-fr.html

 

My question remained whether those large round plates are HC2/HAR2 only?

 

[Alan NG]

Sorry, for the link you need to go into it, check out the 'helicopter', and there is a nice shot of all those small disc and the larger round plates.

[Wafu]

9 hours ago, Alan NG said:

First of all, thanks for all the replies, and Yes I have read the posts from Hendie about his 1/48 and the on going battle of Fly 1/32 Wessex, learnt a lots from it.

 

There are small disc on both side of the lower fuselage, you can see clearly from the Pete's photo above, with black dots (Post #403) but you can found them on both side, so it should not be for Nitesun?  I do not know how to post photos here yet, but a quick search from most of the HC2, you will found them if you look carefully.  Even the Mk 4 of the Queen's Flight, in Red, but those small black dots, so there must be a purpose of them?  Just want to confirm it they are HC2 only as I could not find them on HU5?

 

Those larger round plates with double rivets are even more mystery, and it seems Fly get them right with number and locations?  Not just the HAR2 has them, the HC2 have them too, but this photo show them very cleary?

http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/explanatione-fr.html

 

My question remained whether those large round plates are HC2/HAR2 only?

 

Alan, the Wessex 2 and Wessex 5 have slightly differing fuel systems. The Mk2 don’t have pressure refuel and surge tanks fitted, these tanks and pipe work are seen on any pictures of the Wessex 5. Look for the pipes below the beehive panel at the rear of the gearbox wrap over panels. As for the small black dot panels of the Wessex 5, these are the studs for the fuel tanks to locate and stay in position within the belly of the Wessex, the Wessex 5 had/has 12 fuel cells in the belly and 1 in the kitchen area behind the cabin aft curtain. Each cell is a sealable, interconnected but split into the front 6 to feed the port (#1) engine and the aft 6 feed the stbd (#2) engine. The 13th tank gravity feeds the 11th tank. The fuel can be cross fed from either sets of tanks to feed both engines as selected by the pilot. 

 

The large tubular blank shown in the picture, they are covers for the hard points. These can mount either the External Fuel tank arms or the weapons platforms over each main wheel. These platforms carried the forward facing GPMG, half or full rocket tubes, SS-11 wire guided missiles  or the later AS-12 wire guided missiles. On the RAF cabs, Wessex 2’s these were blanked off flush to the airframe due to the inability of the mk 2 being able carry the external fuel tanks.

 

Hope this helps?

 

 

 

[Alan NG]

14 hours ago, Wafu said:

Alan, the Wessex 2 and Wessex 5 have slightly differing fuel systems. The Mk2 don’t have pressure refuel and surge tanks fitted, these tanks and pipe work are seen on any pictures of the Wessex 5. Look for the pipes below the beehive panel at the rear of the gearbox wrap over panels. As for the small black dot panels of the Wessex 5, these are the studs for the fuel tanks to locate and stay in position within the belly of the Wessex, the Wessex 5 had/has 12 fuel cells in the belly and 1 in the kitchen area behind the cabin aft curtain. Each cell is a sealable, interconnected but split into the front 6 to feed the port (#1) engine and the aft 6 feed the stbd (#2) engine. The 13th tank gravity feeds the 11th tank. The fuel can be cross fed from either sets of tanks to feed both engines as selected by the pilot. 

 

The large tubular blank shown in the picture, they are covers for the hard points. These can mount either the External Fuel tank arms or the weapons platforms over each main wheel. These platforms carried the forward facing GPMG, half or full rocket tubes, SS-11 wire guided missiles  or the later AS-12 wire guided missiles. On the RAF cabs, Wessex 2’s these were blanked off flush to the airframe due to the inability of the mk 2 being able carry the external fuel tanks.

 

Hope this helps?

 

 

 

Hi, Wafu, I understand the Wessex 2 and Wessex have different fuel systems, and thos studs made sense, but are you referring to HC2 instead of HU5 as those studs are found on HU2 only?

[Alan NG]

WaFu, on the point of cover plate for hard points, not too convincing, as they are on the Starboard side only, while weapon to be mounted on both sides?

[Wafu]

On 6/3/2019 at 10:51 AM, Tramatoa said:

 

 

 

Alan, please see this picture, both sides have the stub fitted on this MK2, ex NI cab.

[hendie]

On 6/2/2019 at 7:11 AM, Tramatoa said:

To be honest other than carrying out functional checks on the SACRU I didn’t spend much time underneath in contemplation of access panel locations.

 

On 6/2/2019 at 1:37 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

I can't remember seeing them either.

 

me too, or should that be me neither.  I have no memory of them but like others was too busy drinking in the bars  puting the petrol in and trying not to get frazzled by the gnomes.

I am not convinced they were fitted to all HC2's (yet) and so far have not added them to my build.

I have checked all my reference photo's and what I see suggests that maybe they weren't fitted though the quality of the photo's makes it impossible to confirm or deny

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

I have to assume they were mission specific to the HC2. Something to do with a MOD or STI like Nitesun or the IFR detetctors.

[Alan NG]

19 hours ago, Wafu said:

Alan, please see this picture, both sides have the stub fitted on this MK2, ex NI cab.

Thanks, Wafu, I am not talking about those two stub, but your photo shown clearly those large round cover plates with double rivets, just behind the landing step!

Edited June 6, 2019 by Alan NG

[Tramatoa]

From a yellow Wessex perspective these are the blanked off weapons stub fittings:

 

 

 

So no cut-outs or riveted patches at this location.

 

Alan, the photo shows the four panels which seem to be common to all HC2/HAR2 which are under the cabin door lower rail, one in each of the frame bays, provided in the Fly kit (PE-B26) as the aft four parts. These do not run in a straight line fore and aft but rather rise progressively up the airframe as they get further aft, something that the kit instructions are unclear about (they show the forward one high and the other three in a straight line). In my opinion if you are building an SH HC2 you should only use the aft four, a Mk 60 shouldn’t have any (and is also missing the stub pylon fittings) and one of Madge’s HCC4’s also shouldn’t have any. A real yellow Wessex should have all eight. 

Now this throws up another question. What are these boy racer accessories, and do they fit into a standard stub pylon fitting?

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Tramatoa
Excessive codine consumption

[Tramatoa]

Well hip, hip hooray I have returned!

Bit of an odd experience really but well on the mend now and the arthritis pain has vanished, replaced by a dull ache which is steadily fading away. I did a couple of miles on the crutches today which would have caused me serious bother a month ago so although I'm not in any rush to repeat the experience if you are hobbling around in agony I can say its a Ten from Len.

The good thing about being laid up for a couple of months is that I've finally had the opportunity to return to modelling after about ten years out. For starters I decided on a Revell Tornado GR1 which I bought for my son about five years ago, my last (failed) attempt to get him interested in the hobby I loved as a boy. It was a bit of an eye opener, the worst part being my stupid insistence on following the colours given in the instructions...... Armed with a list of numbers I popped into my local model shop on the morning prior to the Op to be told that they didn't have half of them but could match me up with the equivalent from a different manufacturer - resulting in a full day with a can of Mr Muscle Oven Cleaner with my leg elevated in the sunshine. Lesson learned and we move on! To be honest the rust scales are falling away and I'm pretty happy with it so far except for the radome which is a known issue. Anyway, I digress.

Over the last couple of weeks I've been trying to sort out the piles of digital detritus piled up on my computer and discovered the picture I had previously referred to of XV724 at Pferdsfeldt in Germany. I'm the grumpy looking bloke on the right. The Phantoms were photo recce jobs with cameras in the nose if I recall correctly and the Germans were a bit twitchy about us dumping our ageing yellow crate in the middle of their carefully camouflaged HAS site. How time flies. 

Its back to the left side of the Transmission platform next, I promise.

Pip Pip, 

Tramatoa

 

[Wez]

Welcome back, take it easy and follow the medical advice.

 

Good picture of you back in your youth, I have precious few of my 22 years in the mob!

 

[Tramatoa]

Weell, I’m not quite sure how this will end up as I’m on a bus heading to see my mother and it’s a bit like sitting on top of the spin dryer when we were kids. Thirteen days left before I can get behind the wheel (chuff chart being filled in daily, ‘Days to do are getting few’ and all that) so Im afraid you will have to live with any minor typos or autocorrections for the time being. 

Firstly I need to apologise for the picture quality, they were taken in a hurry on my iPhone and I was somewhat concerned I might be told to get down by the museum H&S Police. The ambient light on the left side and my phone somehow getting into ‘live mode’ resulted in quite a lot of glare.  

 

 

Second attempt with flash:

 

 

 

The most obvious points of interest are the MRGB filler point with it’s Jubilee clips and the tank for the Windscreen De-icing fluid. This is shown as NATO spec S-737, which according to the Aeroshell book translates to Aeroshell Compound 06A, fully miscible with Ethyl Alcohol. I honestly only have the dimmest memories of ever topping this up and I’m damned if I can remember if it had another code applied. These were the pre-COSH days when you just chucked fluids around with no real comprehension of what they could do to you!

Ride nearly over, to be continued later....... 

[Tramatoa]

Back on the boneshaker, previous caveats still apply regarding quality of grammar, spelling, etc (here’s looking at you Wez).

The primary reason for the second image is that it captures the wording on the viewing window. It seems to be “WINDSCREEN SERVICE, FILL LEVEL, NATO CODE, S-737” although the first word is slightly obscured. The flash has also allowed us to see the top of the mixer unit where the flying controls come up through the transmission tunnel. 

While I've been off I have made some efforts to get hold of a set of course notes  or Description and Operation chapters from the AP but I’ve drawn a blank so far (I have a flat spot on my forehead as a result of contact with the proverbial brick wall). Sadly my Q Course notes went west about twenty years ago. If anyone can come up with a graphic of this area it would be greatly appreciated. Having set your homework for the week I’m going to make my excuses and enjoy Lord Street in the sunshine.

Pip pip,

Tramatoa

[Wez]

5 hours ago, Tramatoa said:

Back on the boneshaker, previous caveats still apply regarding quality of grammar, spelling, etc (here’s looking at you Wez). 

OI! I resemble that remark!

 

Sorry, pedantry was engrained during trade training.

 

5 hours ago, Tramatoa said:

 seems to be “WINDSCREEN SERVICE, FILL LEVEL, NATO CODE, S-737”

Is that the same as AL-36?

[Tramatoa]

Why am I looking through the Joint Service Designations for Aircraft Windscreen De-icing fluid at eleven o’cLock at night? A plague on fairies of all oddball trades and persuasions.

Actually it’s AL-11, close but no cigar 🙄.

[Wez]

6 hours ago, Tramatoa said:

Actually it’s AL-11

AL-11!  That's the same stuff that goes in MT vehicles screen wash!

 

Silly me for forgetting that the poor old Walter couldn't fly high enough to require anything more substantial!

 

AL-11 is neat Isopropyl Alcohol BTW.

[Tramatoa]

Blimey, where does the time go? Back on the bus heading to see the old dear who single handedly destroyed more aircraft in the seventies and eighties than the RAF managed over the same period. Granted she didn’t actually shoot down any Jaguars but, trust me, the one she dusted needed some serious rigging checks 🙄.

 

 

This is the left hand forward corner of the Transmission Deck and as we noted previously the gearbox bracing strut goes under the cockpit rear bulkhead so the mounting bolt and it’s coathanger wire locking are not visible. Aft of this are a pair of hydraulic ground connectors but I thought we used the ones on the aft strut for the hydraulic cart so I’m not sure what these were for. This one doesn’t have a case drain connection and the caps don’t seem to have been disturbed very often but my memory is rubbish and Sod’s law applies so I will have got them the wrong way round.

I recall an occasion when we had an aircraft repeatedly being snagged by the crews for a significant clunk when switching between primary and secondary systems. Eventually we set up with both hydraulic rigs in the hangar (a real assault on the senses in our otherwise sleepy hollow) and checked everything was in limits, at which point the duty pilot asked if he could try and replicate the problem on the ground. As we were wandering down the path from C Flight to the Hangar chatting there was a pop in the distance like a shotgun going off and we looked up to see a Hawk heading sharp down and left into the Inland Sea area, followed shortly afterwards by a large column of black smoke. The pop was the ejection seat firing. This was a Bruneian student having a control restriction on take off and deciding discretion was the better part of valour. We did a quick 180 and legged it for the first standby and off they went, only to be beaten to it by a SARTU cab on its way back from the harbour. Legend has it that Flight Sergeant Eckberg gave the budgie a robust slapping and told him there was bugger all wrong with him before taking him over to the Med Centre.

Anyway I digress, can anyone out there remember which of these points the rig attached to or will I have to contact the Oracle on Ynys Mon?

Pip pip,

Tramatoa

 

[Pete in Lincs]

I was but a lowly SAC back then so was probably sweeping up/painting non slip floorboards or sitting in the cockpit moving sticks and pedals on demand.

I only remember hyds plugged on in front of the cabin door. Nice pictures though.

[Tramatoa]

Don’t undersell yourself, I’ve been lucky enough to work with some cracking mechanics over they years who have saved me from my own stupidity on many occasions. In fact it would be nice to have someone to prevent me doing stupid things like painting the front end of sidewinders in Revell’s recommended 10% black, 45% leather brown ,45% copper mix. Doh!

[Tramatoa]

Well I suppose I should explain my absence.........

 

When I started to get into the Flight Controls and Hydraulics it became obvious my memory wasn't up to the job any more I thought long and hard about how to progress this thread. Since I had my op I've been very much enjoying my return to modelling but so much has changed that it's blatantly obvious I need to do some serious re equipping before doing anything with the Fly Wessex. To continue or not, that is the question.

 

It's all Wafu's fault really, if he hadn't suggested getting hold of the manuals I might have just resumed pottering in the garden and left Walter to gather dust on top of the bookcase for the next ten years. Perhaps it was the medication but once my over active imagination starts to work you never know where we will end up. This has all the makings of an Arthurian Grail Quest - it's a very, very tricky conundrum and it's of such limited interest to the wider world that it's verging on pointless but does that mean it's not worth doing? Bloody Navy.

 

Picture me as Gawain, fill in the blanks for Arthur, Merlin, Lancelot. I saddled up my trusty steed and headed off into the unknown. Arriving at Bertilak's castle in Somerset I was shown much hospitality but there were a couple of problems. Firstly, I could be any random crank; I mean people must ask for a copy of AP101C-0102-1A all the time. Secondly, we live in a world where time is money. Totally get that. Thirdly, what on earth was the point? To be fair the Knight of the castle voiced none of these thoughts and made a more than generous offer that if I dropped in they would do everything they could to help, but even with my legendary wit and charm I would have a job convincing Morgan le Fey that we should turn left if we just happened to be passing. Hey Ho, back to the slate tablet.

 

I wandered for some time. Through the barren wasteland that is the Wirral, into the lawless border lands of Flintshire where the locals never stop talking but never make sense.... (sorry Dai, couldn't resist). Then it occurred to me in a dream, the answer was to be found on the fog shrouded island of the Druids. And there in the stygian gloom of Barclodiad y Gawres by the light of my spluttering candle I once more came across the Oracle, bent by time but with the passion for Walter never quite extinguished by prolonged exposure to those nasty, uncouth, flashy five-bladed upstarts. To his eternal credit he didn't even blink when I asked for the Grail, any other mortal would have been unable to stop themselves; 'What in God's name do you want that for?'. But not the Hun, oh no. He had them in a drawer in the back bedroom.

 

I'm not sure if you are familiar with Red Dwarf, but I feel like Holly did when his decrepit memory was restored to it's former glory. Station diagrams fill my thoughts, mod standards of winches flick in and out of my subconscious mind. I even know which way round the cabin seatbelts go! 

 

All we need now is for Lancellot to commit to building a 1/32 scale transmission platform................