k5054nz Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Hi all, I'm planning a scratchbuild project in 1/48 which needs a J-6-5, but I can't find anything online. Does one exist? Is there a -7 or -9 that could, with some work, fit the bill? Any advice greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Holden Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Only 1/48th I can think of is J-6-9 in Williams Bros Pitcairn autogiro. No aftermarket AFAIK. Asked Small Stuff about producing J-6 family in 1/72, but said no demand as hardly any suitable kits available in 72nd (never mind 48th), . J-6-5 is rarest member of family as mainly used in a few low-powered biplanes like Travel Air E-4000. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Zac, As you probably are aware, the J-6-5, J-6-7, and J-6-9 are five, seven, and nine cylinder engines, respectively. I'm no authority on pre-war radials, but I would think the cylinder/pushrod assemblies would be the same for all three, but the crankcase and magnetos would be different, I would imagine, with the J-6-9 crankcase being larger than the J-6-5. You might do an internet search for Wright Whirlwind radial engines to look for photos, as I'm not aware of any monographs or books on the subject. Maybe using a J-6-7 engine and converting it into a five-cylinder engine might be possible? I found some drawings of the fronts off all three engines that might be helpful if you have to scratchbuild or convert an existing engine- see the link below; I hope this will be of use. I have the Engines and Things catalog, and they do not show a J-6-5, just a J-6-9 in 1/48. Best I can do- sorry! Mike http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/search.php?search_keywords=whirlwind&sessionid=e17873c453d03128d73bb5d89c31a400 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) Thanks gents! 11 hours ago, Roger Holden said: J-6-5 is rarest member of family as mainly used in a few low-powered biplanes like Travel Air E-4000. Unfortunately for me a low-powered biplane is exactly what I want to build! 10 hours ago, 72modeler said: I'm no authority on pre-war radials, but I would think the cylinder/pushrod assemblies would be the same for all three, but the crankcase and magnetos would be different, I would imagine, with the J-6-9 crankcase being larger than the J-6-5. I found a rather good video about the J-6-5 on YouTube* and the host - someone who works at/runs a radial engine overhaul company - explained that all three use a lot of common parts as you mentioned. The current catalogue on Engines & Things' site has a 1/48 R-760 (J-6-7) listed, so I may end up getting that and fudging a -5. Luckily for me the aircraft I want to model has a snazzy cowl over the crankcase which may help a lot! *why not share the video, Zac?! There are precious few clips on YouTube of aircraft with the 5-cylinder version - I really wanted to hear it - and this is a great little run-down on the engine with a little run-up at the end. Edited November 9, 2018 by k5054nz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janneman36 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, k5054nz said: Hi all, I'm planning a scratchbuild project in 1/48 which needs a J-6-5, but I can't find anything online. Does one exist? Is there a -7 or -9 that could, with some work, fit the bill? Any advice greatly appreciated! I have this one for you to buy if you like, it is an aeroclub Armstrong Siddeley Genet 5 cylinder (E401)and looks the same as the one in video, It goes with a two blade prop... Just PM me if you need it.. Cheers, Jan Edited November 9, 2018 by janneman36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-USB Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) Hi Zac, Forget the suggestion of using the J-6-9 R-975 engine that comes with the Williams Bros Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro kit. That engine is mis-casted and very hard to correct. Avoid it! And although I haven't seen the Engine & Things 1/48 J-6-9 R-975 I would be very leery as many of their engines are mere blobs of resin. The only decent, affordable 1/48 scale Wright J-6 I can think of comes in the old Hawk/Testors Travel Air Model R 'Mystery Ship' kit. I have seen this kit for sale as cheap as US$10 so it's affordable, much more so than the Williams Bros Autogiro kit which sells for about US$25 for the dual kit. The J-6 that comes with the Testors kit is a J-6-9 R-975. But if the crankcase and cylinders are the same size/diameter as the J-6-5 R-540 you can simply cutaway all the cylinders and then rearrange them in a 5 pattern, per drawings. (And for anyone building the Williams Bros PCA-2 Autogiro kit I strongly suggest you use the J-6-9 R-975 from the Testors Mystery Ship kit) Hope this helps with your search. We really do need aftermarket engines of the Wright Whirlwind series (J-5 and J-6). Ditto their Cyclone engines. Cheers, Tim Edited November 9, 2018 by VH-USB Additional comments 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 Thanks for your kind offer Jan, I've replied to your PM. Tim, I've used an Engines & Things 1/48 Continental radial and it was a great casting. Maybe mine was made on a good day? Untitled by Zac Yates, on Flickr I like the idea of scavenging from the Mystery Ship. I'm pretty sure the kit's available cheap here in NZ as well, so I'll look into it. Thank you! And for reference, here's what the Wright looks like installed in the aircraft I'd like to build (not my photo): Untitled by Zac Yates, on Flickr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-USB Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, k5054nz said: Tim, I've used an Engines & Things 1/48 Continental radial and it was a great casting. Maybe mine was made on a good day? I like the idea of scavenging from the Mystery Ship. I'm pretty sure the kit's available cheap here in NZ as well, so I'll look into it. Thank you! And for reference, here's what the Wright looks like installed in the aircraft I'd like to build (not my photo) Hi Zac, Great to hear the E&T 1/48 Continental is a good casting as this is an engine used in a fair number of planes. I have found that the less popular engines from E&T are among their best. I have ordered some 1/48 'Golden Age' engines and was happy with them. Ditto the exhaust rings and louver shutter plates that came with some of the engines. I have heard that the really popular E&T WW2 engines are the ones which suffer from poor details. This may have to do with the molds losing details from creating so many castings. The engines rarely ordered might retain their details as the molds are seldom used. So, I suspect it's not a casting problem but a worn mold problem. The Hawk/Testors Travel Air R is a great little kit, especially considering it's age. The J-6-9 R-975 in the kit is not bad at all, it even comes with separate nose case, cylinder push rods, intake manifold, and exhaust ring. Propeller is nice as well. Back when the Hawk series of 1/48 race planes were new I built them all and still have a fond spot for them (as well as the J-6 Whirlwind series of engines). Hopefully, you can find a Testors Travel Air R kit real cheap there in NZ. Here in the States $10 copies can be easily found. And since you may end up with a Travel Air R kit without an engine why not consider building the second Type R, NR-613K (called the 'Mystery S') which was, for a short period, powered by a six-cylinder air-cooled, inverted inline D-6 Chevrolair engine? That's going to be a great scratchbuilt Zac and I hope you'll post progress photos here. Nice to see someone building 'Golden Age' civil planes and with an unusual engine to boot! Cheers, Tim Edited November 10, 2018 by VH-USB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matti64 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 I've found the E&T engines a very mixed bag. Some have been rough snd just awful while some have ebeen pretty decent...for the price 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Looks like you only need the cylinder heads for that model. Would that make it easier to find something that works? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 18 hours ago, dnl42 said: Looks like you only need the cylinder heads for that model. Would that make it easier to find something that works? The big hurdle is the exhaust collector. My thinking is that I can still chop and change a -7 or -9 to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-USB Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 3:55 PM, k5054nz said: The big hurdle is the exhaust collector. My thinking is that I can still chop and change a -7 or -9 to fit. The front mounted exhaust collector ring in the 1/48 scale Hawk/Testors Travel Air R kit is a separate piece and can easily be modified. Simply cut off the individual exhausts and reposition them as five. Here's what's in the kit... http://www.swannysmodels.com/Mystery.html Cheers, Tim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Fantastic, thanks for the link Tim and that's precisely what I was planning to do. I'd already started looking for the kit. Of course after being available everywhere for as long as I can remember - and for a very good price - I'm not finding it in any of my regular Kiwi online shops! Also I love your username. That's another one I'd love in 1/48. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastcat Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) Hi Zac, Engines and Things also do a 1/48 Kinner R5 as used in the Ryan PTs. Could you use this? Love the subject. Will you be doing that same aircraft NC499H as once flown by Richard Bach the pilot and author? Beautiful aircraft. Dave Edited November 15, 2018 by Fastcat Pressed the submit button too early. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-USB Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, k5054nz said: Fantastic, thanks for the link Tim and that's precisely what I was planning to do. I'd already started looking for the kit. Of course after being available everywhere for as long as I can remember - and for a very good price - I'm not finding it in any of my regular Kiwi online shops! Also I love your username. That's another one I'd love in 1/48. Hi Zac, You can almost always find the Testors Travel Air R kit on eBay, last time I looked there was one for US$10. Of course, there is always the cost of shipping so it may be best to find one in NZ. I've been researching Smithy's Altair 'Lady Southern Cross' since about 1970 and have a rather large photo collection, some of which can be found here... http://www.lockheed.adastron.com/altair/altair.htm What a pity there are no good kits of the Altair, and none in 1/48 scale. You'll have to start with either the AMT or Esci 1/48 Vega kit and chop and modify until you have an Altair. Cheers, Tim Edited November 15, 2018 by VH-USB spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted November 16, 2018 Author Share Posted November 16, 2018 13 hours ago, Fastcat said: Love the subject. Will you be doing that same aircraft NC499H as once flown by Richard Bach the pilot and author? Beautiful aircraft. Dave That's the plan. After rereading Biplane for the sixth (or so) time I found myself really, really wanting a P-2A of my own. I'm also waiting on a copy of Nothing By Chance which should arrive later today or maybe tomorrow. Tim: I've visited that site many times over the years. It's an amazing resource for a Smithy fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 Dare I ask if, now that I think my skills have caught up to the task of scratchbuilding an airframe, a J6-5/R-540 has been released in 1/48 or even 1/72? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Khee-Kha did a resin J6-9 in 1/72. If available, maybe you could remove the nine cylinders from the crankcase and put five back on, spaced accordiingly? Ardpol did a resin J6-5, but only in 1/72. Best I can do from the old Mk 1a memory banks, except for the 1/48 resin engine linked below. Mike https://www.ebay.com/i/133247474482?chn=ps?_ul=MX 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) @72modeler thanks Mike! I hadn't come across the Khee-Kha -9, and I have to admit the Ardpol one is (welcome) news to me. On 11/9/2018 at 11:21 AM, Roger Holden said: Asked Small Stuff about producing J-6 family in 1/72, but said no demand as hardly any suitable kits available in 72nd (never mind 48th), . Guess what I just found, Roger? https://www.smallstuffmodels.com/2019/08/j6whirlwind.html Edited November 19, 2020 by k5054nz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Holden Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, k5054nz said: @72modeler thanks Mike! I hadn't come across the Khee-Kha -9, and I have to admit the Ardpol one is (welcome) news to me. Guess what I just found, Roger? https://www.smallstuffmodels.com/2019/08/j6whirlwind.html Guess you got lucky ! But that's a mid-30s through WW2 version of the the J-6, which has a few differences to a 1930 version. Not sure if that's what you want. A postwar restored aircraft would probably have this later version as that was produced in WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Roger Holden said: Guess you got lucky ! But that's a mid-30s through WW2 version of the the J-6, which has a few differences to a 1930 version. Not sure if that's what you want. A postwar restored aircraft would probably have this later version as that was produced in WW2. Seeing "late production" gave me that impression, and I think you're right! Photos of N499H (she retains her 1960s engine today) suggest a few differences but I need to read/see more to get them right. Edited November 19, 2020 by k5054nz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff King Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Would this be a starting point to convert to a J6? https://www.renaissance-models.com/ter/index.php/avions-toutes-echelles/echelle-1-48/produits/2299-wright-whirlwind-j5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 Thanks Geoff, unfortunately that's the variant before what I'm after. I think the Testors Mystery Ship engine, bashed into shape will be my best bet due to cost. I'm now Facebook friends with my subject aircraft's owner so at least I won't be wanting for reference material! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-USB Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 On 11/27/2020 at 8:08 AM, Geoff King said: Would this be a starting point to convert to a J6? https://www.renaissance-models.com/ter/index.php/avions-toutes-echelles/echelle-1-48/produits/2299-wright-whirlwind-j5 Unfortunately, no. The earlier J-5 Whirlwind is totally different than the later J-6 series. Tim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjohnsname Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) On 16/11/2018 at 06:38, VH-USB said: Hi Zac, You can almost always find the Testors Travel Air R kit on eBay, last time I looked there was one for US$10. Of course, there is always the cost of shipping so it may be best to find one in NZ. I've been researching Smithy's Altair 'Lady Southern Cross' since about 1970 and have a rather large photo collection, some of which can be found here... http://www.lockheed.adastron.com/altair/altair.htm What a pity there are no good kits of the Altair, and none in 1/48 scale. You'll have to start with either the AMT or Esci 1/48 Vega kit and chop and modify until you have an Altair. Cheers, Tim I know it's been years, but I've been equally disappointed that there's no 1/48 Altairs, so I did exactly what you've suggested. Turned a Dora Wings Vega upside down, flipped the wing, dug out a new cockpit, scratch built some new tale surfaces, and so far it's coming along quite nicely! Edited October 11, 2021 by iamjohnsname 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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