Sea Hawk from the cockpit by Michael J Doust: cover pic question

[David Womby]

Does anybody have "Sea Hawk: From the cockpit" by Michael J. Doust handy, please?  The cover (here: Review ) shows a pair of 897 Sqdn FB3s: WM919/464 and WM916/460.   I'd like to model one in that config and colour scheme - no underwing stores or pylons and the early camo scheme where the EDSG does not come under the leading edges.  The only pics I have of 897 FB3s show them all with the EDSG under the leading edges and drop tanks   I can't tell if that cover is artwork or a color photo.  Can anyone confirm it's a photograph and if possible provide when it was taken?   Thanks.

 

David

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello @David Womby ... I was able to find this photo on pinterest.

Hope that helps you. 

 

Dennis

[David Womby]

Thanks.  That's a great pic but unfortunately, it doesn't show the wings.   Thanks anyway though.

 

David

[pigsty]

It's a photograph.  There's some odd processing artefacts, such as a bit of grainy shadow under the nose, and it might even have been artificially coloured.  But it's not a painting, I'm sure.

 

As for date, the caption doesn't say.  But inside, page 100 says 897 Sqn had the Sea Hawk from November 1955 to December 1957.  The main picture on that spread shows five or six of their aircraft on the deck of HMS Eagle, and this is where it gets puzzling.  WM919 on the cover has no overlap of the EDSG around the leading edge, and nor does WM916 behind it.  Inside, though, WM919 clearly does have the overlap (WM916 isn’t present).  My first thought was that that grainy shadow on the cover might have something to do with it, because it ends just about where you'd expect the overlapped grey to be, and the leading edge is suspiciously clear of it, especially on both aircraft's port wings.  But inside, two along from WM919 is WM933, and that clearly has no overlap.  So it would seem either finish is possible.

 

Also possibly of interest is the variation in the way the overlap goes round the wingtip.  Most of the aircraft in that picture show it tapering as it goes round the navigation light to end about halfway along the chord.  But one, XE404 of 899 Sqn, seems to have the dark grey all the way back to the trailing edge.  And I'm sure it's not the opposite wingtip - they’re so close together that none of them shows at the angle in the picture.

[David Womby]

Thanks,

8 minutes ago, pigsty said:

It's a photograph.  There's some odd processing artefacts, such as a bit of grainy shadow under the nose, and it might even have been artificially coloured.  But it's not a painting, I'm sure.

>

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Thanks for your helpful response.  You have triggered a thought.  I wonder if the cover photo has been retouched a bit by an artist.   Looking at the image on Hyperscale again, it looks to me as though the leading edge of the underwing is much cleaner than the rest of the underwing.  That seems unlikely and the other photo you reference with EDSG under the leading edge seems to confirm it.

 

David

[Seahawk]

19 hours ago, pigsty said:

It's a photograph.  There's some odd processing artefacts, such as a bit of grainy shadow under the nose, and it might even have been artificially coloured.  But it's not a painting, I'm sure.

Hmm.  Nor sure myself (and I mean "not sure", not "I think you are wrong").  I note that the cover is credited to the publisher, Airdoc Publications, inside the cover, suggesting that, even if it is a photo, it may not be quite as nature intended.  Some in this series definitely have artwork covers, credited to Airdoc: not all are good enough to be confused for a photo.  FTC 13: Seafire definitely does have a photo: it is credited to its photographer.

[David Womby]

58 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

Hmm.  Nor sure myself (and I mean "not sure", not "I think you are wrong").  I note that the cover is credited to the publisher, Airdoc Publications, inside the cover, suggesting that, even if it is a photo, it may not be quite as nature intended.  Some in this series definitely have artwork covers, credited to Airdoc: not all are good enough to be confused for a photo.  FTC 13: Seafire definitely does have a photo: it is credited to its photographer.

Thanks.  The only other photos I can find of those 897 Sea Hawks and others of 1955 and later show EDSG under the leading edges so I am going to discount this cover as a source.   I think the wrapunder leading edges came in the mid-fifties.   I have pics of Sea Hawks F1s that definitely have no EDSG under the leading edges, so I'll make one of those instead. 

 

David

[tempestfan]

The pic is not all that clear, but it appears the small section of 460‘s tailplane leading edge visible suggests it has wraparound.

[pigsty]

6 hours ago, Seahawk said:

I note that the cover is credited to the publisher, Airdoc Publications, inside the cover, suggesting that, even if it is a photo, it may not be quite as nature intended. 

That credit could mean just that they own the photograph, of course.  I’m quite sure the picture isn’t in its original form, not least because the topside colour is much too light even for a faded airframe, but if it were artwork I can’t help feeling it would be better focused.  The overall impression is of taking a period photo and giving it the “World War I in colour” treatment.

 

it appears the small section of 460‘s tailplane leading edge visible suggests it has wraparound

I see what you mean, but on closer inspection it does appear sky, and it has the same suspicious cleanliness under the leading edge.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I’m not at home, so don’t have the book in front of me - but I have a complete set of the series, and some of them are definitely colourised B&W photos, so it wouldn’t be surprising if the Seahawk one were the same.  It’s easy to forget how rare colour photography was until quite recently, especially official photography; I was in the FAA a good 20+ yeers after the Seahawk, and lmost all official photos were B&W throughout my time.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

On 11/4/2018 at 2:59 PM, David Womby said:

The only pics I have of 897 FB3s show them all with the EDSG under the leading edges and drop tanks

I've had a look through my Sea Hawk stuff for 897 Sqn and like @pigsty I have only found the photo of WM933 without the 6" grey wraparound.

WM933 became '463J' with 897 Squadron on 22.11.55. It transferred to 895 Squadron on 12.10.56 becoming '463B' It rolled over the side after it's hook broke on landing on 02.11.56. Sadly it's 804 Squadron pilot was killed.

No worries regarding the tanks though as both pylons and tanks weren't permanent fixtures and aircraft were often flown 'clean'

 

[David Womby]

2 hours ago, Scimitar said:

I've had a look through my Sea Hawk stuff for 897 Sqn and like @pigsty I have only found the photo of WM933 without the 6" grey wraparound.

WM933 became '463J' with 897 Squadron on 22.11.55. It transferred to 895 Squadron on 12.10.56 becoming '463B' It rolled over the side after it's hook broke on landing on 02.11.56. Sadly it's 804 Squadron pilot was killed.

No worries regarding the tanks though as both pylons and tanks weren't permanent fixtures and aircraft were often flown 'clean'

 

Thanks.  I appreciate the update.  I'm not decided yet what scheme to do.  Can you see in the pic if WM933 had the 897 'bird' noseart?

 

David

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

47 minutes ago, David Womby said:

WM933 had the 897 'bird' noseart?

It does.

[David Womby]

Thank you!

David