Arado 196 A1 Graf Spee T3+AH

[Marco1965]

I have a question about the Arado 196 A-1 (fuselage number T3+AH) on board the Graf Spee at the beginning of the war (Sept-Dec 1939).  It is described as an Ar-196 A1, a type that was not supposed to be able to carry any external ordnance nor wing cannons.  Now in the following picture of T3+AH, notice that, indeed, it does not have wing cannons, BUT there are two small bombs (110pd I guess) hanging from the wings (!!!).   Markings have been obscured to disguise it from merchant ships.

 

 

What type of Ar-196 is this?  Was it a field adaptation (I doubt it), is this the correct picture for Graf Spee´s Arado?  Thank you for your input.

 

Marco

Edited November 2, 2018 by Marco1965

[JackG]

From what I understand, fuselage codes were not attributed to a specific ship, but were already assigned at Bordfliegergruppe (Ship-Based Aviation Group) level.  Bordfliegergruppe 196 was responsible for supplying aircraft to the Kriegsmarine surface ships:

http://www.luftwaffe-zur-see.de/Seeluft/196 Bordfliegergruppe/Gruppe_196.htm

 

So the aircraft codes, as seen in the opening post, are correct for the Graf Spee, but in 1941, they were also found on one of the Arado aboard the Hipper:

 

 

 

I've not come across as to why fuselage and rudder markings have been painted out, but along with the French roundels, must indicate an attempt to disguise?    Anyhow, I think the photo you have linked is the Arado 196A-2 aboard the Hipper.   Btw, I also came across mention of a photo of the Graf Spee floatplane having roundels on the underside, but uncertain whether they are British or French style.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=8932

 

regards,

Jack

 

edit, well looking further into the first link I have posted to the German site, it has both period photos as being A-1's aboard the Graf Spee 🤔

http://www.luftwaffe-zur-see.de/Seeluft/196 Bordfliegergruppe/Bkdo_Graf Spee.htm

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by JackG

[Marco1965]

Thank you, Jack.  Interesting to learn that the fuselage code could be repeated, I didn,t know that.  T3+AH was used on the Graf Spee’s Ar196 A1, on one Admural Hipper’s At-196 A2, and reportedly on a At-196 on the Scharnhorst.   Another interesting thing in the Luftwaffe zur See site, is the entrance of August 08, 1939 “plane started to perform live bomb dropping exercises... ().  So Graf Spee’s A-1 type could carry bombs then!!!????  Specifications state that the A-1 did NOT have underwing racks nor wing cannons (the A-2 did) or are technical specifications wrong? 

 

Marco

[JackG]

Hello Marco, looks like there is some misinformation out on the internet.

 

So have gone back to book form and checked a 1970 publication Warplanes of the Third Reich by William  Green.   Here it states the 196A-0 model already had racks for two 110-lb. SC 50 bombs, along with the single MG 15 gun at the rear. The A-1 production incorporated structural strengthening and some reposition of equipment, as well as the addition of catapult spools.   Deliveries began in June of 1939, so the Graf Spee is good to go with regards to the period photos.   There is a also a review here that reflects the same production characteristics;

https://modelingmadness.com/review/axis/luft/attard196.htm

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

 

 

[KRK4m]

Actually there were four Ar196s sporting T3+AH immatriculation.

First was 196A1 WNr.014 listed on board of Graf Spee from (at least) September to December 1939.

Second was 196A2 WNr. not confirmed, listed in March/April 1940 on Scharnhorst and May/June 1940 on Gneisenau

Third was 196A3 WNr.149 listed from October 1942 till May 1943 on board of Prinz Eugen

Fourth was Fokker-built 196A5 WNr. not confirmed, listed in August 1944 on Admiral Hipper

AFAIK in December 1941 Admiral Hipper conducted some sea trials on Baltic after the refitment lasting 7 months.

Afterwards she received her first (French built) 196A3s in March 1942 - they were T3+DK and T3+MH

Cheers

Michael

Edited November 2, 2018 by KRK4m
misprint found

[JackG]

Thank you Michael.  Further to add to the Hipper with it's T3+AH marking, the German site has this as an A-3 production airframe, and in service in 1944.  So obviously both the colour artwork and "photo bucket" stamped photo I had linked earlier are incorrectly identified.

 

regards,

Jack

[Marco1965]

Ok, got it, specifications for the A-1 are definitely wrong in some references.  Ar-196 A1 was indeed capable of carrying bombs, and it did NOT have the cowl machine gun.  Quite sure now that  the picture above in the first posting, was Graf Spee’s Ar 196 A-1.

 

Marco

[JackG]

Came across this photo a few days ago, but did not bookmark it, but eventually found it again:

 

 

It is captioned as being the Arado aboard the Graf Spee, but can only find it on Pinterest.

 

regards,

Jack

[stevehnz]

All those photos/profiles look a lot like the Kora decals I have for one of these, though the decals have the original markings/stammkenzeichen rather than the over painted ones in the photos..

Steve.

[Marco1965]

Kora decals drawing just made me notice that I was missing the "A" painted on the upper surface of both wings (Who will notice in 1/350... well, me.   I am tempted to buying a 1/72 Ar 196, if only Sword would reissue theirs. 

 

 

Marco

[Marco1965]

Oh and the picture that you found in Pinterest, Jack, I think that is was published in a book from an Uruguayan author.  You can see the mid-gray camo on the rear rangefinder typical of the Graf Spee.  

 

Marco

[JackG]

Actually Sword will be issuing a duel combo kit of their Gladiator and Arado together - although this one is the A-2 version, but I guess it is essentially the same plastic as their stand alone A-3 kit.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/1165853-sword-sw-72120-sea-gladiator-vs-arado-ar-196

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

 

 

[Marco1965]

Yeah, I put my eyes on that one , hope that it will not be too expensive (I will give away the Sea Gladiator as a present...).

 

Marco

[KRK4m]

By the way are you sure that the roundels really look like the French ones? As the sun is really VERY high and the seamen wear summer shirts it looks like the last days of of Graf Spee somewhere on South American waters (Argentinian December weather is like June in Tunisia or Cyprus). Thus the roundels can as well be the Argentinian blue-white-blue...

Cheers

Michael 

[JackG]

Can't say for certain, but it's possible the underside markings changed 'nationalities' depending on where the ship was operating at the time?  Last merchant ship encounter was on Dec.7th, almost 2,000 miles from Argentine coast.  By the 12th, the Arado could no longer fly, being in need of repairs with no parts onboard.   So perhaps the last few days it might carry Argentine colours, but anywhere else it would have raised suspicion I would think.

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

[Marco1965]

On a german site, they describe the roundels as "blue/white/blue" indeed, but who knows, I have heard british, french, and now argentinan-alike.  Guess a good field for authors license.  As I don´t have any decals whatsoever, I like the argentinean roundels idea.

 

Marco

[Sturmovik]

On 06/11/2018 at 23:37, JackG said:

Can't say for certain, but it's possible the underside markings changed 'nationalities' depending on where the ship was operating at the time?  Last merchant ship encounter was on Dec.7th, almost 2,000 miles from Argentine coast.  By the 12th, the Arado could no longer fly, being in need of repairs with no parts onboard.   So perhaps the last few days it might carry Argentine colours, but anywhere else it would have raised suspicion I would think.

 

That should make for an interesting model.