Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Hello everyone ... I went to spray some RLM-83 on a FW-190D today. Problem was it wouldn't spray to save my life ? It did this ⬇️ and it kept spitting for the whole session. Air pressure was also varied between 7-30 psi. I don't usually have this issue with tamiya, ammo, or vallejo paint ? I had sprayed AMMO by Mig RLM-76 and Vallejo RLM-82 on monday. Followed by a Sprayed coat of pledge yesterday, thinned with windex about 60/40 windex/pledge ratio. I do this because i have issue’s masking Vallejo unless I've cleared it first. I wound up spraying a good dose of Tamiya Lacquer Thinner after the bubbling started. It somewhat cleared up enough to paint today, but i kept getting the bubble/ spitting issue ? After spraying the Vallejo RLM-83 i cleaned the airbrush thoroughly and did pull some fibers (probably from the pipe cleaner) out. Could that have been the issue ? My usual procedure for cleaning pledge is this, i use Tamiya lacquer thinner first.i then use Tamiya X-20A. Followed by Windex with ammonia last up is straight water. Previously i used to use just the windex and water. However after a similar issue a few months ago. I went to the four stage cleaner route ? I haven't had any issues since then until today, nor any before the August issue ? I tried taking the crown off. I wiped the tip constantly. But nothing fixed it completely ? The question’s are, is it the pledge/klear or something else inside the airbrush ? Two Could it be a bad bottle of Vallejo ? If so why the issue with the Tamiya in August ? Three does anyone use pledge/klear and have or had similar issues ? Four what do you thin the pledge with ? Please Anyone, tell me if im screwing something up or doing something wrong ? I really would like to solve this issue ? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I thought lacquer thinner and Vallejo didn't play nice. Regardless, looks like the airbrush needs a full break down and cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, dnl42 said: looks like the airbrush needs a full break down and cleaning. I do that everytime i use the airbrush ? I do a simple clean between colors. When im done it gets a full clean. I still think it has to do with the pledge drying inside and causing issues ? I think the cleaners just roll over the pledge, they don't actually touch it ? I thin Vallejo with water. Edited November 1, 2018 by Corsairfoxfouruncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) I just did some digging. Internet consensus says to strip pledge use a 50/50 mix of vinegar and hot water. Thats what i will try next ? Edited November 1, 2018 by Corsairfoxfouruncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Remove needle nozzel and soak for a few hours in the lacquer, or even the Windex as its got ammonia in it. The stuff here doesn't have it in and it's no good for thinning klear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Noble Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Seems like you're mixing a lot of products, thinners etc through the same airbrush. Strip it down and clean it thoroughly is the only route I'd take.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Bubbling in the cup can only be from air entering the paint path. Inspect the area your nozzle seats into the brush body for anything foreign and any scratches and inspect your nozzle with a loupe for cracks near the tip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 Well I’ve pretty much nailed the issue ? Its down to the Pledge or that particular bottle of Vallejo ? On a whim I painted the bellies of two models (Spitfire 18 & Tempest 6) with Tamiya medium sea grey and had zero issues. So that removes the lack of cleaning. I also looked at the needle and tip with a 30x magnifier, and could see no damage. I just wont use that bottle of paint for A/B’ing again. I will try to use vinegar/hot water next time if i decide to spray the Pledge again ? Thanks for the tips and help. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Cool it worked this time. But it isn't possible for a particular paint to cause bubbling in the cup without some other underlying issue. I suspect any hard to flow paint will show the problem again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 You should be able to get a full on clogged nozzle without ever bubbling in the cup.. If all is well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Cellulose thinners will clear it. I use the stuff all the time and no issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 Im still convinced the pledge is the culprit? That and those fibres i dug out of the A/Brush, I think the two combined. Once done that build up caused some sort of internal damn which caused the air to back down into the bottle. Just to be on the safe side i will stop using that bottle of Vallejo. On the off chance it had some sort of debris/oversized pigment in it. Im also debating the spraying of the pledge ? I may go back to brushing that on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 If the fibers or any dried anything were on the surface where the nozzle base meets the brush body it could keep it from seating. But you would be able to go back to spraying whatever you like if it's fixed. Do you get bubbles in the cup if you press for air but do not pull back for paint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 You could fill the brush with molasses and sand . You still wouldn't get bubbles in the cup unless 1 cracked nozzle 2 nozzle isn't sealing to the base 3 aircap has stuck on gunk overhanging the nozzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 My money is on the nozzle not sealing to the brush body for one reason or another. This is often the cause when problems only appear with harder to flow paint. If you load paint and press for air only but don't pull back for paint and you get bubbles this is almost surely the cause. If there is no visible damage you can put a little lip balm on the nozzle base and try again ..if the bubbles are gone...you've found the cause. If you get bubbles only as you begin to pull back , this is usually a cracked nozzle. Gunk on the aircap is usually pretty obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 Hello Robby First off Thanks for your patience, and taking time in answering my questions. 36 minutes ago, Robbyrockett said: Do you get bubbles in the cup if you press for air but do not pull back for paint? No 20 minutes ago, Robbyrockett said: If you load paint and press for air only but don't pull back for paint and you get bubbles this is almost surely the cause. True but this has only happened twice in more than 16 months with this A/Brush ? Once with Tamiya XF-3 Yellow in august, then the other day with Vallejo. I’ve sprayed multiple time using Tamiya, Ammo, Vallejoair, And Vallejo model color paints in that time frame with zero issues. Incidentally it was a model color paint that i sprayed on monday. I sprayed a different bottle of modelcolor yesterday and it was giving me the trouble. Yet the with the Monday session I had no issues ? 9 minutes ago, Robbyrockett said: If you load paint and press for air only but don't pull back for paint and you get bubbles this is almost surely the cause No not happening here. 10 minutes ago, Robbyrockett said: If you get bubbles only as you begin to pull back , this is usually a cracked nozzle. Yes happening here, however I'm still confused. Why no other issues in the 16 months of use? Why only 14 weeks apart, with multiple uses in between with zero issues ? Why only both times after i have sprayed pledge ? If its the nozzle wouldn't it be anytime i have sprayed any paint or spray the Vallejo model color (note above comment about mondays session)? Again I really do appreciate your taking time to answer, im just trying to figure this out ? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) In some cases with a thinner or easier to spray paint what happens Is that the draw at the front of the nozzle pulls forward any air that would go back up the paint path. While with a thicker paint there is more resistance and the air goes back through whatever flaw there is. Running thinner through clears up the restriction of buildup a bit and appears to help. This is often seen In a brush that sprays water fine but can't do paint without bubbles. As you've noticed, even different colors can vary in how hard they spray even within the same paint line. Also in some cases paint may actually seal the flaw. a very very thorough cleaning or soaking can actually bring it back so I would think it's possible this is why it is after the pledge, because you've changed the way you clean after pledge use and manage to get out whatever is normally sealing it. I have had cracked nozzles that I couldn't spot until the needle was in and putting a little pressure on it. I'm just trying to help. Believe me. I've been there. You should be able to put in whatever you want and not have bubbles ...worst case bad paint would just clog it but not make bubbles. It would be as if the needle is closed. Edited November 2, 2018 by Robbyrockett 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) This is mainly repeat info but See the section on bubbles in the cup. https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/troubleshooting Lol, just so I'm not the only person saying it Edited November 2, 2018 by Robbyrockett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 Hello @Robbyrockett ... Well I played around with my brush again. I even sprayed the pledge, initially i did get some bubbles. I took off the crown and inspected while I sprayed the pledge. I figured out the Needle was at its Maximum setting and i was having to pull the trigger all the way back and was getting bubbles as a result. Hope that makes sense ? So i loosened the needle locking nut and played with the needle ( i pulled it back about 1/8th-1/4 of a mm). Eventually i got the bubbles to stop and it sprayed fine. I broke the A/brush down & did a thorough cleaning. Put everything back together and sprayed some water through ? It went ok but will no for sure when i run paint through. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 If I understand correctly this also supports the idea of a crack in the nozzle. Essentially you eased the needle back so it's not pushed so far in to begin with? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbyrockett Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) I'm beginning to think that if/when you replace the nozzle you will find a brush that behaves waay better than youre thinking. Nozzles in this state that make a brush so sensitive to conditions ; even when they are spraying the atomization is not like the brush is capable of. You may actually have been somewhat compensating for this for a long time. Air-craft.net is good place if you don't have somewhere local to get one. Edited November 2, 2018 by Robbyrockett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 The needle and nozzle are on my future list for purchase. I currently cant get as fine a line and mottle on german camouflage that i like, with my current one. When that happens i believe that i should see these issues go away. Again thanks for all the patience and help. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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