Russian Cold War Kotlin from a Chinese Luda type 051

[Terry1954]

Does anyone know of a review of the Trumpeter 1/350 Luda class destroyer "Chinese 166 Zhu Hai" ?

 

Many sources seem to suggest it was derived from the Russian Cold War Kotlin class, and if that is the case I am considering converting and back dating it to a 60's era Soviet Kotlin.

 

Any views or references?

 

Thanks

 

Terry

[Courageous]

Terry, Terry, Terry... don't you have enough on your plate. 

Sorry, can't help you.

 

Stuart

[Terry1954]

1 hour ago, Courageous said:

Terry, Terry, Terry... don't you have enough on your plate. 

Sorry, can't help you.

 

Stuart

Its just planning you see, just planning ............ honest!

 

Actually I have three coming to a close in the next couple of weeks, so need to keep busy. Trouble is I will no doubt be tempted by something at Telford.

 

Terry

[Chewbacca]

I'm no expert on former Soviet vs Chinese but a quick scrutiny of some reference photos show that the basic hull is about the same (though if doing a full hull variant I'd be very surprised if the Kotlins had a bow array sonar and some references seem to suggest that the Luda IIs were 6 m longer).  Main armament is the same two 130mms and fwd superstructure and funnels similar.  Aft superstructure of the Luda II seems to represent the early Kotlins as does the aft lattice mast.  You'd have to scratch build all of fhe radars which can vary depending upon which era of Kotlin you are modelling.  Good luck with the Headnet C if doing a late variant!

[Terry1954]

Thanks for that @Chewbacca. I think I will still need to do a lot of research. It just struck me that the Luca would be a good starting point. I have no decent drawings of the Kotlin but ironicly I acquired a full set of plans for the larger and kind of related Krupny. Often thought about scratch building one of those!

Terry

 

[Courageous]

41 minutes ago, Terry1954 said:

Often thought about scratch building one of those!

You know you want to...

 

Stuart

[Terry1954]

3 hours ago, Courageous said:

You know you want to...

 

Stuart

I know. It will have to happen one day, the plans are sooooo good. Those SS-N-1 Scrubber launchers would be a challenge though. Hence my original query on the possibility of a Kotlin, by just modifying a Luda. but as @Chewbacca says the radar, especially the Headnet C would be a challenge also. I love these early cold war Soviet ships. Lovely shot of a Kotlin here:

Photo as on www.naval-encyclopedia.com

 

Terry

[Terry1954]

So my preliminary investigations seem to indicate that the Chinese Luda 051 could have been based on the earlier Soviet Neustrashimy. The Kotlin Hull looks a tad too small, although Neustrashimy is actually bigger that the Luda. Back to the drawing board for now I think. 

[SilverGhost]

I think that these models of Luda class destroyers both 1/350 and 1/200 - are toys

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/plan/KaiFeng-200-ph/index.htm

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/plan/Chongqing-350-f/index.htm

 

In my opinion, these models are useless for building the model of Kotlin-class destroyer

It will be easier to build the model from scratch according to the drawings 

 

Luda-class destroyers of Type 051 were based at Soviet Project 41 destroyer Neustrashimy (Tallinn class)

The ships of Kotlin-class destroyers has another shapes of hull.

Neustrashimy had errors in the design of the hull, so at Kotlin-class destroyers these errors were fixed

Edited June 29, 2020 by SilverGhost
edit

[Terry1954]

41 minutes ago, SilverGhost said:

In my opinion, these models are useless for building the model of Kotlin-class destroyer

It will be easier to build the model from scratch according to the drawings 

 

I tend to agree Andrew. My original thinking was to maybe use the Luda hull (shortened and modified accordingly, rather than scratch build that also), but recognise most of the rest would have to be scratch built. I think the links you supplied on your Smetlivy thread, will help my thinking on this going forward and the diagrams, photo's and drawings you shared there will be of immense use to such a project.

 

Incidentally, I have just seen your Sevastopol build - most impressed indeed!

 

Thanks again

 

Terry

[SilverGhost]

6 minutes ago, Terry1954 said:

I tend to agree Andrew. My original thinking was to maybe use the Luda hull (shortened and modified accordingly, rather than scratch build that also), but recognise most of the rest would have to be scratch built. I think the links you supplied on your Smetlivy thread, will help my thinking on this going forward and the diagrams, photo's and drawings you shared there will be of immense use to such a project.

 

Incidentally, I have just seen your Sevastopol build - most impressed indeed!

 

Thanks again

 

Terry

Good luck with your project Terry!

[Harquebus]

Interesting topic and as a Trumpeter 1/200 'Kaifeng' Luda Class destroyer owner, I've considered kitbashing the kit into a "cooler" Russian vessel.

I mean there's no discounting the similarity of the Luda class destroyers with several Soviet-era post-war destroyers and/or the Kotlin-class especially.

 

If the Kotlin-class is the closest in design or the actual analogue to the Luda-class more or less, then the later redesigned Kotlins that have the enclosed bridge like the Luda class destroyers would be the ones to base a kitbash on.

The image that Terry1954 posted seems to be a variant vessel with a rear deckhouse superstructure that eliminates the rear turret. There are lots of photos on the internet that show Kotlins with a rear turret that are more analogous to the Luda-class.

The kits depicting Kaifeng and Zhuhai (and maybe more) have a larger, taller bridge design that seems to be a Chinese PLAN design and nothing copied from the Russian Navy. I prefer that design as it looks more streamlined.

 

 

Also consider the Zhengdefu 1/260 Luda destroyer series. These are all motorized "toy" models but many have raved about the finer details and part counts of these kits. They are probably out

of production but can be found on ebay from time to time.

 

[Our Ned]

The photo posted by Terry1954 shows Vozbuzhdenyy, a Project 56A ship, known to NATO as "Kotlin SAM" (ie fitted with Surface to Air Missiles) - she had been completed as a Project 56 ship and later modified by replacing the after twin 130mm mounting with a twin SAM launcher.

[Harquebus]

What I meant to say but woefully failed at was that I prefer the earlier enclosed, short (I think) bridge of the early type 1 051 Luda-class destroyer and not the overbuilt bridges of the Kaifeng and Zhukai et al (Luda III?).

I think that is one of the features that are shared, seemingly, between the Luda and Kotlin. The only pics I can find of an enclosed bridge Kotlin seem to be the 56A SAM and the ORP Warszawa.

 

I like the flat face bridge of the early Ludas:

 

 

Here's a link to someone's 3D rendering of a Kotlin-class Project 56 Spokoinyy destroyer. It looks impressive but one wonders if it's accurate and where they got the plans from. 

https://spacesauce.art/projects/v2mPnv

 

 

[Terry1954]

Some great insights and information from you both @Harquebus and @Our Ned. Thank you both.

 

The project is still a long term idea, but both your inputs, are helping keep this one alive.

 

Thanks.

 

Terry

 

PS I should have added that those War Thunder 3D images look awesome, and could prove extremely helpful.