B-17G 42-31582 Ol Scrapiron --- FINISHED!!!

[MarkSH]

Great scratch building throughout this build

[Ol' Scrapiron]

I just posted A LOT of ball turret pics over in the reference thread. As all of these have most likely undergone restoration, please use your own judgment on their historical accuracy.

 

 

[Ol' Scrapiron]

Ball Turret – Phase II

 

A bit more work on the ball turret interior and then a chance to close it up.

 

I painted a few black circles to represent gauges and added a couple handles at the end of the seat and decided that was busy enough and that I had a greater chance of wrecking it than improving it at this point. The only things I could add would be the foot pedals, prominent wire /pulley attached to the guns) and ammo belt leading to guns. Like I said, not sure any of that is worth the risk of botching it up.

 

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Speaking of goofs, I started painting the ball turret and discovered that I should have checked my own references!!! When I took a look at what I had already painted on the kit ball turret in comparison to my own photos  I wound up scraping some paint off a couple areas that should have been clear. I hope the scraped areas will shine up with a little Future after I'm done with the painting.

 

The lines on the Monogram clear part are hard to follow and I think misleading. On the other hand, I see that there is no definite consistency on the ball turrets I have photographed. Some have plenty of glass areas and others are metal in those same areas. Some even have a glass area over the actual attachment (I’m not going to try that).

 

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I will use an airbrush on the plane itself, but thought it would be better to just hand paint this small component rather than trust masking it.

 

Need to add a restraining belt dangling from one side of the doorway and some latches on the door itself, but it’s pretty much ready to go with just minor touchup.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored

[Thom216]

Love it! All that scratch work in the ball really paid off.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Thom216

[Ol' Scrapiron]

Today’s focus was the main landing gear. I had heard that the kit wheels and tires would be better off if replaced by a resin set (the ones I saw online did look FANTASTIC) but I wanted to give the kit parts a chance before ordering anything extra. Glad I did. By nipping off the alignment pins I was able to sand the mating parts nice and smooth and was actually very satisfied with the results. The tread looks OK to me, or at least passable considering they do not require an extra outlay of funds.

 

I added a bit of thin insulated wire from an old computer cable and a few lengths of very thin brass wire to represent the various hydraulic lines that are visible along the main gear. The wheels have only been placed on the gear legs (the fit is snug) so I can still remove them if needed.

 

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My only regret on the legs is that I splashed on a little AK oil before doing the normal thinned black wash… The places that didn’t get “oil” looked so different that I ended up pretty much coating the legs to avoid having bare spots. My ground crew chief would not be happy with Ol' Scrapiron's condition if she were due for a mission tomorrow.

 

Worse than that, the black wash wouldn’t bite into the slick oil-covered areas. Lesson learned: do things in the correct order!!!

 

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Anyway, I’m pleased with the overall look (even if a wee bit oily) of the legs and tires. I’m holding off on mounting the tailwheel to the fuselage until I decide if that area needs to get some special love. The kit part is definitely on the basic side… but does look sturdy. Still thinking about it.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored

[modelling minion]

Very nice work indeed.

The interior of the ball turret looks fantastic and the wheels look very nice too, great job on the extra detailing for both.

[Thom216]

Great work on the wheels. No need for the after market if you can make them look that fine!

[Ol' Scrapiron]

I’m not sure how I feel about tackling the top turret today. This was my grandfather’s fighting station when he wasn’t busy helping Dahlgren keep Ol’ Scrapiron in the air.

 

Like other parts of the kit, it looks like Monogram design team sacrificed some scale to simplify the model and make the turret turn and guns elevate. I set to work with the understanding that this has no chance of being seen except by fellow builders viewing these in-progress shots… but still giving it a fair treatment.

 

 

I cut some sheet stock to make a panel and ran some wire across it. Some evergreen rod made the basis for the handles. After ruling out glue-soaked tissue, I opted for some tin foil to make the shell catching bags (wrinkled a bit before I cut it to shape). I also used some stretch sprue to extend the belt feeds to the guns.

 

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After some dark wash it looks pretty good for its size.

 

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Of course, almost all of this extra work is lost within the ring of the turret. But we know it’s there, right?

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored

[Thom216]

Great looking detail.

[TonyW]

This model is made up of a whole load of other mini models!  That twin gun settup is a work of art, and the wheels just look outstanding.

[Ol' Scrapiron]

Time to get cheeky…

 

After a convention over the weekend, I was able to put just a short bit of work on Ol’ Scrapiron tonight.

 

I am very pleased with the Monogram kit as being a good representation of my grandfather’s plane: stinger tail, non-staggered waist, early top turret, etc.  --- BUT  --- one of the things I was dreading was the modified cheek guns depicted in the kit.

 

 

Looking at the crew pic with Ol’ Scrapiron I notice it has the large square windows up front.

 

Granddad is standing, third from left.

Left side windows: Large-small-small

 

Right side with the large window in center (small-large-small)

 

I never would have tried this before, but feeling a wave of pride and having some success so far, once again I reached for the rotary tool to grind off some plastic.

I knew I needed to do this before I started attaching things to the fuselage parts that might rattle off during rough handling.

 

 

I think it looks OK after some filing and sanding (and there’ll be more of that before needed it’s ready.) It looks better in person than these photos indicate.

 

As long as I was cutting, I also removed the elevators to position them slightly dropped. No photos of that until there’s some actual progress.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored

[TonyW]

Nice work.

[Ol' Scrapiron]

Thanks Tony

Fortunately, the cheek modifications were essentially replacements for the large windows so it didn't really affect the interior when I cut out all the bracing. I did notice that I went a bit low on the left fuselage -- the bottom of the large window should be at the same level as the two smaller windows. Shouldn't be a problem to make it the correct size (or just paint to the correct point when I get some plexi fitted.)

 

It was definitely one of those moments when the commitment is made: "There's no going back now!"

[Plasto]

This might help with the window conversion and perhaps generally also..

 

 http://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/B-17 Conversion/monogram_b-17_conversion.html

[vppelt68]

I´m a noob when it comes to things as various in its variants and versions as the mighty Fort, but I consider myself being observant and quick to learn too. As much as I have browsed through online pics of the noses of the B-17G, this is the first one I´ve seen with the larger windows but without any cheek gun positions. Could it be that the pic above was taken right after the plane had arrived in England? The batch of B-17G-20-BO:s probably had their cheek guns added quite quickly at the field, as planes just three numbers "younger" (42-31585 Mount'n Ride) had them already at 16/3/1944

http://www.91stbombgroup.com/photo_history/mount.html 

and a few numbers "older" was taken picture of with them later in the summer (42-31575 Mizpah)

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/5684

so your representation of her (erm... just thinking of a lady called ol´ scrapiron, gives me goosebumps!) is 100% correct but should you have wished to skip that tedious job that´d been ok too. Ah the licenses of a modeller . V-P

[vppelt68]

5 hours ago, Ol' Scrapiron said:

 

Right side with the large window in center (small-large-small)

Can there be seen a strip of a repaint around the center window, common to field mod window works? V-P

[Ol' Scrapiron]

I am always willing and happy to learn.

 

There was plenty of discussion over on facebook that the crew shot I posted above is not in front of Ol' Scrapiron. I knew it was taken in the States, but I had always figured it was taken when the crew was finalized and prepping to ferry her over to England.

 

I have another crew shot that is in England because it was after pilot Stevenson was killed on his first mission.

(granddad kneeling, center)

 

I've always assumed this is one of the other planes they flew because it looks to be NMF rather than OD/Gray that 42-31582 was.

 

 

Sooooooooooooo... as for this project, a donor fuselage will be pulled from one of the four other Monogram kits in the stash, and at some point I will build a trainer version using these fuselage pieces.

Just a small setback.

 

And I learned some about the pics, so all is good.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored

[Ol' Scrapiron]

Plasto: Thank you for the link to that article. I actually saw that in FSM when it came out (still have the magazine) but it has been so many years. Good tips and food for thought in that article.

 

 

V-P: Thanks for the links to those shots -- I guess that all but confirms the cheek modification should be there. Also helps confirm that the OD/Gray is in order.

[Ol' Scrapiron]

I have reviewed my grandfather's Individual Flight Records, and he did in fact train on B-17F craft in Pyote, Texas.

 

Between Jan 22 and March 26 he logged 165:05 hours, all listed as B-17 F. Probably what is included in the crew shot.

The next page is a single entry April 3 at Grand Is., Nebraska. This is listed as B-17G, and was probably 42-31582 that they ferried to England because he has training flights at Rattlesden starting April 5 (though the first few flights could actually be the transferring trip).

 

I do have one additional shot from granddad's scrapbook. I'll have to dig up the original, but I happen to have available for scanning one of the memorials I did for him back in 2000 (when I thought Scrapiron was two words -- D'OH!!!)

 

 

I recall the actual print has Ol' Scrapiron written on it, but since I've always assumed the crew shot was the correct plane I didn't pay much attention (partly because the cheek gun mod didn't match the crew shot). If THIS is the correct plane I am really intrigued to notice the teeth on the chin turret. Dang, now I HAVE to find those original prints. I can definitely get excited about doing this with the teeth and the mission markers.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored

[Thom216]

You may have to turn around a bit, but the work done to smooth the cheeks out was really well done. When you get back to using those parts, you'll be happy you already did them!😁

[Ol' Scrapiron]

On 11/20/2018 at 6:33 PM, Thom216 said:

You may have to turn around a bit, but the work done to smooth the cheeks out was really well done. When you get back to using those parts, you'll be happy you already did them!😁

Thanks.

For good measure, I shot a little primer on them and they do look pretty good in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Shame to put them away for now... but next time I see them it will be for a somewhat simpler build.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored

[Ol' Scrapiron]

Can I vent here?

 

After seeing Thom216 open the vents on his 1/72 project I decided it was time to box in the ones on Ol’ Scrapiron (at least Monogram has the holes already open.)

 

 

I started off with some Evergreen sheet cut into strips and rounded at the front to loosely conform to the inside of the airfoil. It was rough but I figured I could trim them to shape when the glue dried. Next time I’ll use some of the Evergreen strips so the height will be consistent.

 

 

I trimmed the lengths so I could attach a strip across the back as a baffle.

 

 

The walls and wing surface within the vents were painted silver. I considered trying to blend the silver to black at the end, but thought it might look too "painted" rather than just letting the actual depth create natural shadows.

 

 

Once I trimmed the heights to be roughly even (again, pre-cut strips would have been a wiser choice) I added a “roof” of an aluminum can with the unprinted side in. I used the can to avoid any problems gluing a painted plastic piece that would be out of reach for touching up.

 

 

 

It was a bit of work for something that most likely will go unnoticed… but that seems to be the theme of this build.

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Now I see I should have cleaned up the hole outboard of the engine ... I'll have to wait until everything is really dried and cured or I'll have little bits and particles stuck in there forever.

 

Looking forward to closing up the wings once I figure out if I want to open the mid-wing vents or not.

 

 

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OK, who am I kidding.

As soon as I stepped away from the keyboard I started grinding the back of the wings. I was a bit nervous because of all the earlier work I had done inside the wheel wells, but I managed to get through all sixteen opportunities to bollix the whole wing up.

 

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A little more filing to square it up looks to be in order, but I'll call it a success at this stage. (whew!)

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored

[tomprobert]

On 11/20/2018 at 4:05 AM, Ol' Scrapiron said:

Looking at the crew pic with Ol’ Scrapiron I notice it has the large square windows up front.

 

Granddad is standing, third from left.

Left side windows: Large-small-small

 

Right side with the large window in center (small-large-small)

 

I’m fairly certain that the top picture wouldn’t have been the G model your grandfather flew operationally.  It’s actually a late Douglas built F model with a chin turret - you can see the earlier top turret dome which was typical of these late Fs. Also, the Douglas late-batch Forts had the typical cheek window arrangement for the F reversed - large window in the forward left position and large window in the middle right position. 

I suspect that the top picture was taken whilst training in the States and not at Rattlesden. 

 

The lower picture is actually a G model and could well be the aircraft your grandfather flew operationally. The cheek window is actually the bulged type, as the angle of the stowed gun would be impossible with the flat window. You can see the light reflecting off the top of the plexiglass where the bulge protrudes at the top. The protruding gun mount is just out of frame. Also, notice the turret dome - it’s typical of the type fitted to the early G models and is different to the one pictured with the crew in the earlier photo. 

 

The later photo you posted with your grandfather pictured directly below is fitted with the bulged cheek windows and if you’re building his aircraft, that’d be the reference shot I’d use for this fantastic project. 

 

Tom

[Ol' Scrapiron]

On 11/21/2018 at 11:05 AM, tomprobert said:

I’m fairly certain that the top picture wouldn’t have been the G model your grandfather flew operationally.  It’s actually a late Douglas built F model with a chin turret - you can see the earlier top turret dome which was typical of these late Fs. Also, the Douglas late-batch Forts had the typical cheek window arrangement for the F reversed - large window in the forward left position and large window in the middle right position. 

I suspect that the top picture was taken whilst training in the States and not at Rattlesden. 

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You are absolutely correct Tom. Thank you.

After some discussion yesterday, I checked with granddad's Individual Flight Records and discovered he trained on the B-17F in Pyote from January to April 1944 and the written text on the back of the print confirms that it was taken in March in Texas. Must have been toward the end when the entire crew was assembled.

 

 

I'm glad all this discussion on that photo came up, because there is another shot in my grandfather's scrapbook that was captioned as Ol' Scrapiron that I had long ago dismissed because it did not match the set up in the crew photo.

I need to find the original print of that to confirm it matches what we would expect from a B-17G-BO-20 block.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored

[Ol' Scrapiron]

Over on facebook, I asked advice regarding the “prop”-er placement of the Hamilton Standard logo and stenciled data – using eight different wartime photo examples of the variation in layout.

 

I opted for the HS logo at center of blade length and the data running across the chord of the blade where it becomes wide (which puts it right even with the cowling).

 

My wife thinks it strange that I keep plastic lids from things like peanut butter, gallon milk jugs and such, but they come in handy. The small white milk lids are great for mixing thinner/paint for washes and for very small amounts of water for decals so they won’t be hard to find if the separate from the backing. The lager sturdy make great little bins for parts and in this case a template for the prop decals. I drilled a 1/8-inch hole in the center to receive the 7/16-inch brass rod glued to each prop and then marked where I would be placing the HS logo and data plate. That way each was placed evenly on all twelve blades (theoretically) and will make nice colored rings when they are spinning.

 

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After the decals were in place and dry (barely) I brushed on some future to even the surface out and give them a consistent sheen. I need to get some brush-on semi-matte, but the morning after Thanksgiving is NOT the time to casually go to the store for one small item. These will have to wait.

 

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The next really tricky part will be drilling out the engines enough to install the slightly larger brass tube that receives the rod and allows the props to spin freely. That will be a delicate procedure that I should have done BEFORE doing all the wiring. Lesson learned (again, theoretically 🤨 )

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ol' Scrapiron
photo links restored