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32923231627_93bbd7d7f6_z.jpg

In propellor country myself at the moment, started on the prop for the Bristol racer. Pretty much the same process but it's probably the same size as your entire model :)

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Lovely workings

Thanks

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I've been looking at pics of the fee.....and can't wait to see how you sort out the the bracing,flying, and control wires/cables. It was difficult on a 1/48 Dh4 so I will wait to see what cunning plan you come up with!

All the best

Steve

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On ‎18‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 07:31, Stevejj said:

I've been looking at pics of the fee.....and can't wait to see how you sort out the the bracing,flying, and control wires/cables.

Oh, I wish we could just skip ahead to that part!

I bought some rolls of nickel silver vaping wire off ebay.uk from a place called the Crazy Wire Company.  I was able to get 0.05, 0.07 and 0.10mm wire which should cover all my 1/144 needs for a lifetime.  My biggest question is, how wide and how thick were those actual rigging wires anyway?  If anyone has ever measured some real life control cables and streamlined raf wires I would be very keen to know!

 

Today I was able to mask and spray the roundels under the wings.  I'm not super happy with them, but they will do.  The starboard one on A857 was unusual inasmuch as it did not have the white circle.  I swear I didn't forget...  ^_^

 

KzfFENO.jpg?1

 

If anybody knows a source of 4.2mm capital B's in white, do let me know!

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A quick trawl of the interweb gives this

2BA       is 4.6 mm x 1.8 mm.

4BA       is 4.3 mm x 1.5 mm.
1/4BSF  is 10.4 mm x 1.5 mm.

In 1/144 any of these will be half the width of a gnats laughing gear!

 

Box On 

 

Strickers

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FE's not having parts of roundels painted (and any other RFC type up to 1916 for that matter) was not as unusual as some might think. Repairs were more important than repaint jobs, particularly when there were high intensity operations such as the Somme offensive, when I assume this machine was flying. Look at photos of FE's and you can see where wing sections and ailerons have been replaced and the colours/CDL patterns do not match - a reflection of the pressures on ground crews to get machines into the air.

 

The roundels on the model look very good - who is going to get a magnifying glass out to inspect them I wonder? You perhaps?! In all this is turning into a super model - the more so as it is a pusher - and as I have already commented, I am a scratch build pusher addict.

 

P

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0.06mm is pretty much right on scale for rigging wire in 1:72 although different wires were slightly different thicknesses. I'd go with nothing larger than your .05mm for this scale.

 

Ian

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Thanks chaps! That’s really helpful.

It sounds like the 0.05mm is the way to go then.  I was contemplating stringing two parallel pieces of wire together and running a soldering iron down their lengths to make streamlined wires, but perhaps it won’t be necessary. 

 

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Posted (edited)

47845806142_c9dfc3652a_z.jpg

My prop at 85mm it probably is bigger than the FE :)

 

I came across this, making laminated propellers from paper while looking for inspiration on the interweb. 

 

40931449083_0fbc6f06bb_z.jpg

A quick experiment with some ca and paper, could only find pink and yellow paper and it is rough and ready, but you get the idea. It does work and at 1/144 you could probably use individual sheets for each lamination.

Edited by Marklo

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Hi Marklo, thanks for the tip!  That has some real potential for 1/144, especially when doing some of the German props.   I'll definitely be keeping that in mind, as I'm contemplating what would make a good adversary to the Fee. 

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Posted (edited)

I went and bought some brown and beige paper and started experimenting. I made a nice new prop for the floh and I'm working on one for the brandenberg D1 that I'm planning. For me three layers of 120gsm works in 1/144 I's say single layers of 80gsm or  60gsm might do the job. Flickr is down but I'll post some photos once it's back up.

 

From looking at photos of RFC and RAF planes from the era they are laminated too but they temd to be varnished or stained in a single colour, so the technique might still be good for British planes as well. 

 

so far I'd say the glued paper is much easier to carve and sand so this will probably become my default propeller making method .

Edited by Marklo

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Yeah, I was pretty glad to see that the Fe2's propeller was a fairly uniform colour.  It made things a lot easier.

Actually, now that you mention paper thicknesses; does anyone know what the real-world thicknesses of wood were that were used in the laminations? 

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Posted (edited)

I once owned a clock mounted i n a prop boss stamped RAF 1917 and from memory the laminations were 5/8 to 3/4s of an inch (ish). I can't confirm as i sold the clock some time ago. I. Think there were 5 or 6 laminations

Sorry I can't be more use but it may give u a starting point.

All the best Steve.

Edited by Stevejj
Bad spelling

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Its me again! Been looking at tinterweb and on an familiar auction site there are pics of prop bosses inc one off an re8 yomay be able to count the laminations and work out the thickness's if you can  determine the boss thickness

Steve

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47923897902_04e2d717a5_z.jpg

My first attempt at a paper propeller, 7 layers two by two brown and yellow then painted in Tamiya clear orange. On my third at the moment, getting better with each one...

 

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Definitely some real potential there!  It looks like the individual laminations would be a helpful reference in keeping the two blades symmetrical too.  

 

Stevejj, thanks for the tip regarding the Re8 prop.  I’ll go looking for it and count those layers. :)

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For those who have been frustrated by the on again/off again relationship between the nacelle and the lower wings...  Finally they are together!

 

I always hoped those crazy kids would get together one day!  :heart:

 

XYvIPu7.jpg

 

I made a jig from a handy sheet of 3mm acrylic that was nice and flat.  I took extra care to ensure the sides are square to on another so I can use them for setout.  Then scored the centreline and leading edge position of the wing into it.

 

The wings and nacelle are jacked up on styrene blocks so that the wing joins are hanging in the air.  I was very worried that the gap-filling superglue that I intended to use would flow out and bond the piece to the jig otherwise.  That would be a nightmare!

 

Speaking of nightmares: I did have a proper one, when for a dreadful 10 minutes I thought that I had made the wings a good 10mm too short...

I had copied a scan of my drawings and printed the plan view out so that I could fix it under the acrylic jig to assist with alignment.  When offering the wings up to the drawing for comparison, the difference was immediate and appalling.

 

The width of the wings was bang on, but the overall length was not even in the same postcode.  A frantic scramble for datafiles and photoshop scans ensued.  If the wings were wrong, they would need to be made again from scratch. 

 

To my lasting relief, I discovered that the printer had stretched the drawing lengthways to fit the page.  The wings were fine as they are.  Measuring them using the 1/72 and 1/48 in Windsock datafile 18, the overall length was correct to within 0.2mm.  Bloody hell. That's close enough for me.  :)

 

Once that was sorted and it was clear that the whole project wasn't doomed, I made the pipes that run from the radiator to the tops of the cylinders.

 

0I9khUX.jpg

 

And added the seat.

 

qphuCet.jpg

 

I also made the frame for the adjustable windscreen.  The glass piece is only a temporary one.  The final one will need to be taller with a more rounded top. 

 

GpEZ4ZD.jpg

 

And as a preview of the trials that await me... test fitted a couple of the wing struts.  :unsure:

 

xQMBlsT.jpg

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Brilliant work.

I'd like to know a little more about your jig setup as those there wings have a dihedral?

Will be interesting to see your rigging routine as you don't seem to have made any rigging holes/

 

Stuart

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Truly marvellous. I assume that you are going to use this jig to attach the booms too - it looks as though you could do so.

 

P

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Posted (edited)

Really impressive work. Definitely doesn't look like 1/144 scale.

 

Quote

Speaking of nightmares: I did have a proper one, when for a dreadful 10 minutes I thought that I had made the wings a good 10mm too short...

Happens to me all the time :) I have just become adept at adding bits to make good length r chord issues.

 

47675199891_941609c9b0_z.jpg

 

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For my Snark, which is (was ?)  a case in point, one rib too short, about 2mm too shallow on the chord, but fixed now :)

 

On the paper props, yes the contours are a very good guide that you've made the propeller right and the lovely thing is that the laminations are always correct (provided you stuck them together right )

 

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Also the finished result is about a million times better than anything I can achieve with paint or pencils.

Edited by Marklo

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On ‎26‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 22:25, Courageous said:

 

I'd like to know a little more about your jig setup as those there wings have a dihedral?

Will be interesting to see your rigging routine as you don't seem to have made any rigging holes/

Hi Courageous, yep there's a dihedral on the outer wings although the inner section is flat.  I faffed around for quite a long time before I was happy with the right angles.  The blocks under the fuselage and inner wing sections are 3mm, so I take the surface of the acrylic as a datum and remember to add 3mm to any height measurements that I take off of my drawings.

 

The rigging will be done with straightened lengths of 0.05mm nickel silver wire and glued in place with UV setting adhesive.  That will give me an unlimited time to position each one under a desk lamp, then give it a flash with a UV pen torch to cure the glue in a second.  It should save having to drill 150+ holes with a .1mm bit.  ^_^

 

On ‎27‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 04:16, pheonix said:

Truly marvellous. I assume that you are going to use this jig to attach the booms too - it looks as though you could do so.

 

 

I think so!  I'll try to solder as many of the key joints as I can, then glue the booms into the wings afterwards.  So far the jig has been really good with providing a secure handhold while doing the fiddly stuff.  I think I'll make it a habit in future builds.

 

Marklo, that's a good recovery on the wings.  Thank God it didn't happen to me tho!  :)

 

 

So here's some more.  I was able to start doing the shading and highlights to the nacelle.  This is done in part with artist's oils for the shadows, and some surgically-sharp pale green and grey pencils for the highlights.  Having a day off today, I put a clear coat onto the nacelle to seal this layer in before doing some secondary highlighting later.  Being veeery careful not to overdo it!

 

I couldn't resist a trial run of the guns in the front cockpit, and risked all taking the model outside to photograph it on this cloudy, windy day....

 

xhGV2cm.jpg

 

4S9Uh13.jpg

 

0mY5fgH.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

It looks amazing. Tail booms, correct me if I'm wrong have a compound angle and would be nigh on impossible without a jig and some clever model engineering.  (put it this way, this and the rigging are probably why my DH2 kit is still firmly at the back of the stash :) ) Will be watching with interest as this is constructed. Soldered brass I presume?

Edited by Marklo

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My goodness.  This is possibly the most incredible bit of modeling I've seen in a very long time.  I'm just blown away by the skill and patience demonstrated here....

 

My hat is off to you, Sir!

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