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Battle of Britain 80th GB Chat


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Eighty years ago today, the debate on Norway concluded in the House of Commons. The Labour MP Herbert Morrison proposed a division of the house at the end of the debate, instead of the more normal and routine vote to adjourn. This was correctly interpreted by the Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, as effectively a censure direction at him personally. He replied in part:

 

"The right honourable Gentleman began his speech by emphasising the gravity of the occasion. What he has said, the challenge which he has thrown out to the Government in general and the attack which he has made on them, and upon me in particular, make it graver still. Naturally, as head of the Government, I accept the primary responsibility for the actions of the Government, and my colleagues will not be slow to accept their responsibility too for the actions of the Government. But it is grave, not because of any personal consideration — because none of us would desire to hold on to office for a moment longer than we retained the confidence of this House — but because, as I warned the House yesterday, this is a time of national danger, and we are facing a relentless enemy who must be fought by the united action of this country. It may well be that it is a duty to criticise the Government. I do not seek to evade criticism, but I say this to my friends in the House — and I have friends in the House. No Government can prosecute a war efficiently unless it has public and Parliamentary support. I accept the challenge. I welcome it indeed. At least we shall see who is with us and who is against us, and I call on my friends to support us in the Lobby tonight."

 

Chamberlain's blatant appeal to the Conservative party to support him shocked many in the chamber, including the sybaritic and amoral Tory MP Robert Boothby (later infamous for his close relationship with the brothers Kray postwar as well as for his lengthy affair with Harold Macmillan's wife), who shouted out "Not I!"

 

Later in the debate, Lloyd George, the former Liberal Prime Minister, launched a blistering attack on the government:

 

"Is there anyone in this House who will say that he is satisfied with the speed and efficiency of the preparations in any respect for air, for Army, yea, for Navy? Everybody is disappointed. Everybody knows that whatever was done was done half-heartedly, ineffectively, without drive and unintelligently. For three or four years I thought to myself that the facts with regard to Germany were exaggerated by the First Lord, because the then Prime Minister — not this Prime Minister — said that they were not true. The First Lord" --and here Lloyd George was referring to Churchill, once a minister in his government before changing parties -- "was right about it."

 

Lloyd George's Liberal Party was already a spent force in British politics, and he himself was decades past his glory years. He concluded his speech with his last flash of oratorical brilliance, summoning from within his inscrutable depths all the forcefulness he could muster:

 

"The Prime Minister must remember that he has met this formidable foe of ours in peace and in war. He has always been worsted. He is not in a position to appeal on the ground of friendship. He has appealed for sacrifice. The nation is prepared for every sacrifice so long as it has leadership, so long as the Government show clearly what they are aiming at and so long as the nation is confident that those who are leading it are doing their best. I say solemnly that the Prime Minister should give an example of sacrifice, because there is nothing which can contribute more to victory in this war than that he should sacrifice the seals of office."

 

There were still hours of debate to go, but when the time for Division came, the Government's majority of 213 had been reduced to only 81; 41 Tories voted against their party, and at least sixty abstained. It represented a devastating defeat for Chamberlain and a searing indictment of his conduct of the war.

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Also, Flight Lieutenant Terry Clark DFM AE passed away yesterday. There is now only one member of The Few left with us.

 

Old age hath yet his honour and his toil;
Death closes all: but something ere the end,
Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.
The lights begin to twinkle from the rocks:
The long day wanes: the slow moon climbs: the deep
Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends,
'T is not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
It may be that the gulfs will wash us down:
It may be we shall touch the Happy Isles,
And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.
Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

 

-- Alfred, Lord Tennyson, "Ulysses"

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Eighty years ago today, on 10 May 1940, German troops invaded Belgium, Holland, and Luxembourg at dawn. That evening. Neville Chamberlain, architect of appeasement during his tenure as Prime Minister, submitted his resignation. He had wished to be replaced by Edward Wood, Lord Halifax, the former Viceroy of India, a fellow appeaser who was popular in the Conservative Party and acceptable to the Labour Party, but Halifax demurred, ostensibly because as he sat in the House of Lords, he could not effectively be Prime Minister. (Sir Alec Douglas-Home, upon becoming Prime Minister in 1963, renounced his title; the last Prime Minister to sit in the House of Lords throughout his tenure was Lord Salisbury at the turn of the century.) Thus, reluctantly, Chamberlain was forced to recommend Winston Churchill to the King for Prime Minister.

 

Churchill was sixty-five years old, overweight, widely considered as lacking in judgement, perceived as inconstant (Rudyard Kipling, though a fierce anti-appeaser until his death in 1936, detested Churchill and thought him a political turncoat for having switched parties not once, but twice), bellicose, reactionary, and by and large a failure. 

 

The American historian John Lukacs, who was a Jewish slave laborer in Hungary during the war, would later write of this moment that "on that night of the tenth of May in the 1,940th year of Our Lord, Churchill stood for more than England. Millions of people, especially across Europe, recognized him now as the champion of their hopes. (In faraway Bengal India there was at least one man, that admirably independent writer and thinker, Nirad Chaudhuri, who fastened Churchill's picture on the wall of his room the next day.) Churchill was the opponent of Hitler, the incarnation of the reaction to Hitler, the incarnation of the resistance of an old world, of old freedoms, of old standards against a man incarnating a force that was frighteningly efficient, brutal, and new."

 

Joseph Goebbels, writing in his diary almost a year later, on 7 May 1941, when Nazi Germany stood at the apex of her fortunes, was more succinct: "This man [Churchill] is a strange mixture of heroism and cunning. If he had come to power in 1933, we would not be where we are today."

 

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On 29/04/2020 at 20:59, Wez said:

Mk.I - Airfix Mk.IIa was too late wasn't it?

 

On 29/04/2020 at 21:06, Max Headroom said:

No. There were some that took part. BoBMF’s II I believe is an actual veteran of the conflict. 611 Squadron had them in August and flew from Duxford. 

 

Trevor

Not 611 sq , but 111 Sq.  

see here

 

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On 05/05/2020 at 21:29, Max Headroom said:

Ooh! A Fujimi 110. Never seen one built, but I believe that for its time, it was the best out there.

 

Trevor

it was the only one out there for it's time!

  

There are only 4 1/48th Bf110 kits

Fujimi - old. I had one in 1978.  It's probably the basis for a decent model, it's delicate and has fine engraved panel lines. 

Revell - but only a G

Dragon/Cybermodeller -C/D, and maybe more.

Eduard - who most of the family, C, D, E , G and a couple of G's.   

A couple of BoB era specialist boxings,  as in they had Erprobungsgruppe 210 options, the D and C-6 are not available. 

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On 28/04/2020 at 20:45, Tim Moff said:

I’d like to join - I’ve a Tamiya Spitfire MK1 in 1/48.

the one pictured is the old tool.

Classic Tamiya, build like a dream, but is a bit short, too wide, slab  sided and the wings are too broad.  

Look fine unless next to one that does not have the above issues.   Correctable if you wish.    

Otherwise,  the new tool Tamiya,  and then the new tool Airfix, which lacks the Tamiya finesse and has really badly designed UC leg attachment, but is considerably cheaper.

On 28/04/2020 at 20:45, Tim Moff said:

 

looking for some recommendations for the following as I’m a more Cold War - modern day military bloke.

 

All 1/48 - best kits for:

Define 'best'  accuracy, ease of build, overall compromise.... 

I'll take best to be 'accurate' 

On 28/04/2020 at 20:45, Tim Moff said:

 

BoB era Hurricane - take it MK 1 and MK IIa variants ?

given lack of Hasegawa availability,  new tool Airfix.    Not that the Hase kit is "better" , both have their faults.  Nothing major for the non obsessed to obsess about.    

Avoid the Italeri, Ark and old tool Airfix.

There is not a really good OOB accurate 1/48th Hurricane for the obsessed (what me?) 

On 28/04/2020 at 20:45, Tim Moff said:

 

BoB era BF109 - take it E1, E3 and E4 variants ? Are the Eduard kits best ?

Edaurd are decent, but a bit overscale. Only one with rivet detail.  

the Tamiya (beware of original issue on used market) Hasegawa (reboxed by Revell of Germany 10+ years ago) and Airfix are all decent.  Given the amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth these generate. 

The Tamiya E-7 kit has the same bits, and all are the corrected mould.

On 28/04/2020 at 20:45, Tim Moff said:

 

BoB era BF110 - take it a C or D variants ?

Eduard, noted fiddly in places,  have a search, or the Dragon/Cyberhobby, which tends to be pricey. 

 

You seem to have gone for the Fujimi,  I have seen some good update build online.  Have a search.  

it scrubs up well with some care eg

http://hyperscale.com/2007/features/bf110c1cw_1.htm

 

HTH

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5 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

the one pictured is the old tool.

Classic Tamiya, build like a dream, but is a bit short, too wide, slab  sided and the wings are too broad.  

Look fine unless next to one that does not have the above issues.   Correctable if you wish.    

Otherwise,  the new tool Tamiya,  and then the new tool Airfix, which lacks the Tamiya finesse and has really badly designed UC leg attachment, but is considerably cheaper.

Define 'best'  accuracy, ease of build, overall compromise.... 

I'll take best to be 'accurate' 

given lack of Hasegawa availability,  new tool Airfix.    Not that the Hase kit is "better" , both have their faults.  Nothing major for the non obsessed to obsess about.    

Avoid the Italeri, Ark and old tool Airfix.

There is not a really good OOB accurate 1/48th Hurricane for the obsessed (what me?) 

Edaurd are decent, but a bit overscale. Only one with rivet detail.  

the Tamiya (beware of original issue on used market) Hasegawa (reboxed by Revell of Germany 10+ years ago) and Airfix are all decent.  Given the amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth these generate. 

The Tamiya E-7 kit has the same bits, and all are the corrected mould.

Eduard, noted fiddly in places,  have a search, or the Dragon/Cyberhobby, which tends to be pricey. 

 

You seem to have gone for the Fujimi,  I have seen some good update build online.  Have a search.  

it scrubs up well with some care eg

http://hyperscale.com/2007/features/bf110c1cw_1.htm

 

HTH

Thanks @Troy Smith - that’s really helpful.

 

as you say I’ve the Tamiya old tool Spit, noted ref the accuracy - I’m fairly intermediate when it comes to building so will likely build as is with some aftermarket decals. I’m looking at another Airfix kit, earlier boxing of the current tool, to build for a friend who has a family story.... if I’m correct that newest Spitfire Mk1 tool dates back to 2007 with some new parts and decals etc since?

 

im looking at the A05115 boxing with the 19Sqn box art?

 

Be interesting to compare as you say with the old Tamiya tool....the new tool is a bit pricey still.

 

Hurricane looks a no brainier with Airfix - will save the pennies 

 

I got an Edward BF109E-4 so happy with that..... do you all use a sponge for the tight mottling with Luftwaffe aircraft ? Going to have to practice !

 

I bagged the Fujumi BF110D online, it’s not got the C option decals but expect the basic model is the same...I’ve located some BoB D decals though....the link will be useful - thanks !

 

Now the next question is RLM colours - I like Mr Paint, also use Mr Color and on occasion Hataka.

 

any views on the accuracy of the Mr Paint and Mr Color finishes?

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21 minutes ago, Tim Moff said:

I’m looking at another Airfix kit, earlier boxing of the current tool, to build for a friend who has a family story.... if I’m correct that newest Spitfire Mk1 tool dates back to 2007 with some new parts and decals etc since?

 

im looking at the A05115 boxing with the 19Sqn box art?

New tool Spitfire I is this, 2015, based on the Vb tooling

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-a05126-supermarine-spitfire-mki--940754

this looks to be the 2020 rebox

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-a05126a-supermarine-spitfire-mk1--1260856

 

the UC legs are awful, and need dealing with before assembly.   I can link a couple of useful builds if that helps?

 

this is the old tool Airfix Mk.I

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-a05115a-supermarine-spitfire-mki-mkia-mkiia--109402

also boxed a Va.

Not recommended.  The basic shape is good, but it's clunky.  needs a new spinner as well.   If it's the decals you are after, I'd just ask in the spares section.

27 minutes ago, Tim Moff said:

I bagged the Fujumi BF110D online, it’s not got the C option decals but expect the basic model is the same...I’ve located some BoB D decals though....the link will be useful - thanks !

The D was operated by Epr 210,   which is one of the most interesting,  if you have Steven Bungay's Most Dangerous Enemy, see his end chapter and theories as to how the Germans could have won,  one tool being the bf110 as fighter bomber, as Epr210 used it. 

30 minutes ago, Tim Moff said:

Now the next question is RLM colours - I like Mr Paint, also use Mr Color and on occasion Hataka.

 

any views on the accuracy of the Mr Paint and Mr Color finishes?

There was a thread on RLM matches recently.

Probably worth asking in the WW2 section

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Thanks - that’s really helpful. May have the older spit but can try to get the newer one before the build starts!

 

will have to look out for the book.

 

ive seen different names for the 210 unit, the decals I’ve ordered are as below :

 

Authentic Decals 1/48 Messerschmitt Bf110D Luftwaffe # 4840


S9+HH 1/Eng.210 Battle of Britain 1940; Also includes below - looking online ZG76 were also involved in the BoB?

 

can’t really find a reference to ZG 32 as a BF110 unit...think it means ZG52...

 

MB+AB Stab /ZG76 Norway 1940

A2-BL 6./ZG32 France 1940 - this is likely a typo and should be ZG52 until June 40 then ZG 2 - will see what the decals indicate!

 

Messerschmitt-Bf-110D-Zerstorer-6.ZG2-(A

Messerschmitt Bf 110D Zerstorer 6.ZG2 (A2+BL) WNr 3312 ex3.ZG52 France 1940-0A

 

MS+DB Stab ZG76 Norway 1940

 

Thanks again 

 

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On 10/05/2020 at 19:03, Tim Moff said:

any views on the accuracy of the Mr Paint and Mr Color finishes?

see here

which may...or may not help! 

 

On 10/05/2020 at 20:44, Tim Moff said:

can’t really find a reference to ZG 32 as a BF110 unit...think it means ZG52..

AFAIK, an I really am not about to try to find out right now ,  Luftwaffe units did not reuse numbers.  as there is a JG52,  I don't think there is a ZG52...  and there is always the WW2 section to inquire more...

 

 

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On 13 May 1940, 80 years ago today, as German tanks surged into France, Winston Churchill gave his first speech to the House of Commons as Prime Minister. Most famously, he said "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat." He then added:

"You ask, what is our policy? I can say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy.

"You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival...no survival for the urge and impulse of the ages, that mankind will move forward towards its goal."

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Thank you for posting that. You can see why people call it our ‘Finest Hour’.

 

With hindsight victory looks assured yet at the time (and particularly after what came next at Dunkirk) it must have felt anything but. We could have bottled it, kept our wealth and gone for the ‘safe’ option (though it would have, longer term, proven nothing of the sort). But we did not.


I hope in similar circumstances today that we would choose the same route.
 

Bring on July 10th

 

Will


 

 

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Eighty years ago today, on 14 May 1940, two German panzer corps broke through the Allied defenses at Sedan. They were now able to sweep around the fixed defenses of the Maginot Line and push deep into France.

 

Listeners to the BBC on this day heard the following announcement:

 

"The Admiralty have made an Order requesting all owners of self-propelled pleasure craft between 30' and 100' in length to send all particulars to the Admiralty within 14 days from today if they have not already been offered or requisitioned."

 

 

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Well struck a deal with Wez and a Classic Airframes Fiat CR42 is secured so the Italian contribution to the battle will be represented if one comes along at a

reasonable price I might add an Airfix old tool 1/48 Stuka to the mix.

Edited by stevej60
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Eighty years ago today, on 19 May 1940, the War Cabinet were informed that in light of the current situation in France, Lord Gort, the commander of the BEF, was contemplating a withdrawal towards the ancient port city Dunkirk. Churchill made his first address to the nation as Prime Minister:

 

I speak to you for the first time as Prime Minister in a solemn hour for the life of our country, of our empire, of our allies, and, above all, of the cause of Freedom. A tremendous battle is raging in France and Flanders. The Germans, by a remarkable combination of air bombing and heavily armoured tanks, have broken through the French defenses north of the Maginot Line, and strong columns of their armoured vehicles are ravaging the open country, which for the first day or two was without defenders. They have penetrated deeply and spread alarm and confusion in their track. Behind them there are now appearing infantry in lorries, and behind them, again, the large masses are moving forward. The re-groupment of the French armies to make head against, and also to strike at, this intruding wedge has been proceeding for several days, largely assisted by the magnificent efforts of the Royal Air Force."

 

Churchill had served on the Western Front in 1916 after resigning office after the Dardanelles fiasco, and he retained immense respect for the French army, believed then by many experts to be the most formidable in Europe, and by extension the world.

 

"We must not allow ourselves to be intimidated by the presence of these armoured vehicles in unexpected places behind our lines. If they are behind our Front, the French are also at many points fighting actively behind theirs. Both sides are therefore in an extremely dangerous position. And if the French Army, and our own Army, are well handled, as I believe they will be; if the French retain that genius for recovery and counter-attack for which they have so long been famous; and if the British Army shows the dogged endurance and solid fighting power of which there have been so many examples in the past — then a sudden transformation of the scene might spring into being."

 

He added, almost en passant:

 

"It would be foolish, however, to disguise the gravity of the hour."

 

He then moved to the subject of the air:

 

"In the air — often at serious odds, often at odds hitherto thought overwhelming," and here his voice seemed almost to break, "we have been clawing down three or four to one of our enemies; and the relative balance of the British and German Air Forces is now considerably more favourable to us than at the beginning of the battle. In cutting down the German bombers, we are fighting our own battle as well as that of France...We must expect that as soon as stability is reached on the Western Front, the bulk of that hideous apparatus of aggression which gashed Holland into ruin and slavery in a few days will be turned upon us. I am sure I speak for all when I say we are ready to face it; to endure it; and to retaliate against it — to any extent that the unwritten laws of war permit. There will be many men and many women in the Island who when the ordeal comes upon them, as come it will, will feel comfort, and even a pride, that they are sharing the perils of our lads at the Front — soldiers, sailors and airmen, God bless them — and are drawing away from them a part at least of the onslaught they have to bear. Is not this the appointed time for all to make the utmost exertions in their power? If the battle is to be won, we must provide our men with ever-increasing quantities of the weapons and ammunition they need. We must have, and have quickly, more aeroplanes, more tanks, more shells, more guns. there is imperious need for these vital munitions. They increase our strength against the powerfully armed enemy. They replace the wastage of the obstinate struggle; and the knowledge that wastage will speedily be replaced enables us to draw more readily upon our reserves and throw them in now that everything counts so much."

 

"Our task is not only to win the battle – but to win the war. After this battle in France abates its force, there will come the battle for our Island — for all that Britain is," and again his voice seemed almost to waver with emotion again, "and all that Britain means. That will be the struggle."

 

Thousands of miles away, in America, the celebrity aviator Charles Lindbergh was making a radio address of a very different sort to the American people. He confidently proclaimed that "no foreign navy will dare to approach within bombing range of our coasts." Lindbergh added:

 

"To be successful in modern warfare, a nation must prepare many years before the fighting starts. If any one doubts that, let him turn his eyes to Europe. Years ago we decided to stay out of foreign wars. We based our military policy on that decision. We must not waver now that the crisis is at hand. There is no longer time for us to enter this war successfully."

 

Lindbergh further added:

 

"The only reason that we are in danger of becoming involved in this war is because there are powerful elements in America who desire us to take part. They represent a small minority of the American people, but they control much of the machinery of influence and propaganda. They seize every opportunity to push us closer to the edge."

 

It required little imagination on the part of any listener to understand to whom Lindbergh was referring.

 

Writing in 1941 of his time flying Bloch MB.170s during the Battle of France, Antoine de Saint-Exupery, the celebrated author of The Little Prince, would write:

 

“For after all, why do we go on fighting? If we die for democracy then we must be one of the democracies. Let the rest fight with us, if that is the case. But the most powerful of them, the only one that could save us, chooses to bide its time...And we go on fighting despite the assurance that we have lost the war. Why, then, do we go on dying? Out of despair? But there is no despair. You know nothing about defeat if you think there is room in it for despair."

 

 

 

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I had some paint masks arrive today for the Spitfire, their for an aircraft from 92 Sqn. I’ve also got some camouflage paint masks to, this will be the first time I’ve used camouflage masks. Looking forward to try them out.

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Eighty years ago today, on 21 May, 1940, the British Expeditionary Force counterattacked Erwin Rommel's 7th Panzer Division, then supported by the Waffen-SS divisions "Totenkopf" and "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler" near Arras. Although badly outnumbered, the British tanks proved almost impervious to most German weapons, and simply drove over German anti-tank guns, crushing the crews with their treads or mowing them down with their machine guns. Rommel was caught wrong-footed, and only by forming his divisional artillery, including 88mm anti-aircraft guns and 105mm field guns, into a last-ditch defensive line was the 7th Panzer Division able to stop the much smaller and weaker force, which had handled the Germans roughly, causing the Waffen-SS to break and run and taking 400 German prisoners. The heavy German guns and the Luftwaffe inflicted grievous losses on the British tanks, however, with P A L Vaux, later a Brigadier, writing:

 

“But none the less the fire became heavier and heavier and there were shells falling all round us and striking the tanks, including the tanks already knocked out, and it was high time time for us to go, and the Adjutant signalled for me to turn round and drive back. As we did so, I saw the Colonel’s tank had its side blown in, and although I didn’t know it, the Colonel and Corporal Moorehouse his operator were dead inside…As we drove back through the Matildas my heart sank because I realised what had happened: there were all those tanks I knew so well—the familiar names—Dreadnought, Dauntless, Demon, Devil; there were the faces of those men with whom I had played games, swum, lived with for years—lying there, dead; and there were these tanks—useless—very few of them burning but most of them smashed up in one way or another. And as the Adjutant and I drove back up to the top of the hill, one realised that this really was it. This—this was the tragedy—this was the end of the 4th Tanks as we knew it. In that valley, the best of our crews, our tanks, our soldiers, our officers were left behind.”

 

As the battered British were forced back by the Luftwaffe and the combined strength of three German divisions, help appeared from an unexpected corner: the powerful medium tanks of the French 3e DLM, more than a match for anything the Germans had, arrived to cover the British retreat, stopping the German counterattack cold and giving the British time to regroup.

 

The British lost around 75 men and 35 tanks, but another 170 British troops, taken prisoner during the retreat, were murdered by the Waffen-SS. The Germans lost 300 men killed or wounded and another 400 taken prisoner, as well as many tanks put out of action. Such was the ferocity of the Allied attack that the Germans believed they'd faced five divisions, or 40,000 men: in fact, the British had attacked with less than 2,000.

 

The counterattack at Arras had far-reaching effects. The Germans had no longer believed the Allies capable of offensive action, and the 3e DLM attempted its own unsuccessful attack on 23 May, further rattling the Germans, who now feared their armour was at risk if it pursued the retreating British forces into the marshy ground around the channel port of Dunkirk.

 

 

Also on 21 May 1940, in the occupied Polish town of Działdowo, the Germans began another phase of Aktion T4, their campaign to murder the mentally ill. 1,558 patients at asylums throughout East Prussia were brought to the Soldau Concentration Camp and murdered using the gas vans of SS-Sonderkommando Lange. For this work, the Sonderkommando were "rented" from the SS for ten Reichsmark per person so killed.

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Worth mentioning that those Matildas were largely Mk1s with just an MG.

 

The Battle of France to the British public now is overshadowed by Dunkirk. There were many impressive feats of arms at that time.

 

One reason why many of these are lost is that most written evidence at the time was lost in the evacuation 

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Quick question, what colour is best for the underside of a Battle of Britain Spitfire? Is it sky gray of sky?

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13 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Quick question, what colour is best for the underside of a Battle of Britain Spitfire? Is it sky gray of sky?

Or even Duck Egg Blue or perhaps Eau de Nil? I won’t even try to answer this can of worms only to say that regular Sky might be a safe bet. 
Cheers.. Dave 

 

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