Battle of Britain 80th GB Chat

[Rabbit Leader]

5 hours ago, Tim Moff said:

Next week

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00txy2q

interesting graphic as well

 

The BBC caption says “70 years on”. This appears to be a 10 year old programme Tim and already available on YouTube etc. 
Cheers.. Dave

[Tim Moff]

On 9/11/2020 at 9:10 PM, Rabbit Leader said:

The BBC caption says “70 years on”. This appears to be a 10 year old programme Tim and already available on YouTube etc. 
Cheers.. Dave

Correct - being re-shown.

[Ventora3300]

Just as @DaveyGair is finishing off his BoB set, I'll inflict another one on you all, if I may - this is the '70th Anniversary' one with the kits that were in place before all the new versions came out. I plan to build the new tool versions of the Airfix kits in tandem so if I am lucky, I'll get eight aircraft out of this GB! (Did a pig just fly past the window?) This was another bargain buy but I think I got it in a Toys'R'Us many years ago.

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Ventora3300

[DaveyGair]

1 hour ago, Ventora3300 said:

Just as @DaveyGair is finishing off his BoB set, I'll inflict another one on you all, if I may - this is the '70th Anniversary' one with the kits that were in place before all the new versions came out. I plan to build the new tool versions of the Airfix kits in tandem so if I am lucky, I'll get eight aircraft out of this GB! (Did a pig just fly past the window?) This was another bargain buy but I think I got it in a Toys'R'Us many years ago.

 

Be interesting to see how the old tools fair against the new, I recently did both old and new Spitfire Mk 1's in that GB and the old one went together really well.  Kudos in advance if you manage all 8!

 

Davey.

[Procopius]

On September 15, 1940, Winston Churchill visited the headquarters of RAF Fighter Command's 11 Group, responsible for the defence of London.

 

Across the English Channel, only twenty miles wide at its narrowest point, over 200,000 German soldiers waited for the invasion of Britain, scheduled for 17 September, to begin. Today, the Luftwaffe was to strike London, where a quarter of the population of the British Isles lived, twice: first in the morning a small force of 27 bombers, escorted by 120 fighters, to draw up the last fifty or so Spitfires and destroy them; and then, in the afternoon, after the RAF had been smashed, the real attack would come: 114 bombers escorted by 360 fighters, an unstoppable bulldozer that would crush anything in its path and then, with London defenceless below, the bombs would fall. On 14 May, four months before, eighty German bombers had blasted the city center of Rotterdam, killing 884 people and leaving 80,000 homeless; the complete surrender of the Netherlands had soon followed.

 

With a little luck, the annihilation of the RAF and London facing destruction from the air would be enough to cause the fall of Churchill's government and British capitulation. If not, there was still the invasion, and then the planned extermination of Britain's 300,000 Jews, and the export of all British males aged 17-45 to Europe for slave labour.

 

The first wave formed up over Calais; the bombers first, and then their fighter escorts. But the same winds that had blown for Sir Francis Drake against the Armada were blowing again, and the Germans took an unusually long time to sort out their formation before heading for London.

 

Churchill watched as the radar plots were indicated on a large map. First one, estimated at one hundred plus aircraft. Then a second plot, estimated at one hundred and fifty plus. The two plots merged.

 

Churchill, who by superhuman effort was resisting his almost insatiable urge to involve himself in the action, whatever it might be, was unable to refrain from comment. "There appear to be many aircraft coming in," he said to Air Vice-Marshall Keith Park.

 

"And we are ready for them. There'll be someone there to meet them."

 

The Germans weren't bothering to try and confuse the British radar operators with complicated maneuvers or tricks; they were headed across the Channel on the shortest possible route to London, to maximize the fighting time of their escorts. It was eleven o'clock in the morning.

 

Five minutes later, the first two British squadrons were airborne, 72 and 92 Squadrons, both flying Spitfires, the best fighter in the world in 1940. At full strength, an RAF squadron had twelve aircraft; twenty-four Spitfires were now headed to meet 150 German bombers and fighters as they crossed over the white cliffs of the English coast.

 

The two squadrons, callsigned TENNIS and GANNIC, respectively, received terse instructions as they gained height: "Hello, GANNIC Leader, GANNIC Leader! SAPPER calling! 200-plus coming in over RED QUEEN, vector 120, Angels 25. Watch out for snappers above." SAPPER was the ground controller vectoring them towards the enemy, based on information received from both radar and the 55,000-strong Observer Corps, civilian volunteers armed only with telephones and binoculars who reported the progress of enemy aircraft once they'd passed beyond the sweep of the radar beams. Angels 25 meant a height of 25,000 feet, with the warning that snappers, the dreaded yellow-nosed Bf 109s, would be stacked above them, ready to pounce.

 

German fighters were designed to make diving high-speed passes on enemy aircraft below them, swooping down, shooting their unsuspecting foe down, and then using the immense speed gained in the dive to climb up and do it again. British fighters at this stage of the war could only pursue with difficulty, for their engines lacked the fuel injection that prevented them from cutting out for a few critical seconds in a dive. Instead, they were far more maneuverable; if a German fighter stayed to fight, it would find it impossible to stay behind a British Spitfire or a Hurricane. Even a 109 immediately behind a Spitfire would find the Spitfire on its tail in under a minute of sustained turning. The slower but even more maneuverable Hurricane could reverse the positions even faster.

 

But enough theory. Here's the moment. Twenty-four Spitfires, looking small and very drab in dull green and brown camouflage, are in position, for once, for once, able to gain enough height that below them they can see the entirety of the incoming German raid: bombers in tight V formations like a series of enormous stepped herringbones, and swarming about them, over a hundred fighters. Back at 11 Group headquarters, the status boards for 72 and 92 light up with ENEMY IN SIGHT.

 

Geoffrey "Boy" Wellum, the youngest fighter pilot in the RAF, is flying with 92 Squadron. "Well, there's not many of us," he thinks, looking at the German fighters, still oblivious to the presence of Spitfires above them, "but we'll knock ---- out of some of you, at least for as long as we can." Then Flight Lieutenant Brian "Kin-Pin" Kingcombe, leading the squadron because it's lost three Squadron Leaders since May, says "OK, here we go," and the Spitfires roll on their backs (that lack of fuel injection again) and dive into the attack.

 

They get four in their first pass.

 

And now the battle becomes a welter of fast-moving aircraft in a small space of sky as more and more RAF fighters are drawn into it, until, quite suddenly, thirty minutes after it began, the skies over southern England are again empty.

 

The Germans knew something had gone wrong. In aerial fighting, the casualties are few, because the sky is a big place, and military aircraft are fast and resilient. But six bombers had been shot down, and two more crash-landed in France, out of only 27 sent. Their heavy fighter escort should have been able to protect them, but the British had been able to push through the 109s to strike at the bombers. During the Allied bombing campaign of Germany from 1941 to the end of the war, any loss rate over 5% on a raid was considered unacceptable, as it meant that losses of both machines and crews were exceeding the rate at which they could be replaced. The Germans lost almost 30% of the bombers committed, and in 1940, their aircraft production lagged far behind that of Great Britain. And there seemed to be far too many British aircraft. But it was too late to stop the second attack, and in any case, this must have been the last gasp of a corpse.

 

The Germans came again at two in the afternoon, in a formation thirty miles wide and twice again as long. Hard fighting followed, in the course of which a RAF Hurricane, set aflame by German fighters, tore into the midst of the bombers and rammed one, cutting the German aircraft's wing off at the root. This, and RAF head-on attacks, almost as dangerous to the attacker as to the target, delivered with increasing frequency as the Luftwaffe drew closer to London, still surmounted by great palls of smoke after a week of bombing, were the two things which most disturbed the German bomber crews. A head-on attack required both immense skill on the part of the attacker, who had to judge when top open fire and when to break away at a combined closing speed of over 500 MPH, and nerves of steel to attempt. It was not a tactic for a beaten air force.

 

Instead of the concentrated bombing of London the Germans had intended, their formations were broken up and scattered, and their crews dropped their bombs early and randomly to lighten their aircraft for escape. The British chased them all the way back to the coast.

 

At the end of the day, the Germans had lost 57 aircraft; the British, 31. But the Germans had lost something else: the belief that they could defeat the Royal Air Force. Since 1936, when they reoccupied the Rhineland without opposition, the Nazis had been on a winning streak sans pareil; their enemies simply gave up, or if they dared to fight, were crushed. France, with the foremost army in the world, had been crushed with ease. The Soviets had been content to divvy up Poland with the Germans. There was nobody else left but a ridiculous little island lead by a fat old failure, to stop the most efficient and ruthless dictatorship ever seen by humanity, an annihilating force bent on the destruction of life; by 1940, the Germans had been murdering their own children for being born with deformities or disabilities for a full year; they would kill 5,000 by 1945. They didn't stop there.

 

Churchill would not much later remark: "We stand here still, the champions. If we fail, all fails, and if we fall, all will fail together." For the first time since coming to power, the Nazis had suffered a serious reverse. The plans for invasion were indefinitely postponed the next day.

[Procopius]

On 15 September, twelve pilots defending London were killed in action. They were:

 

Georges Doutrepont, aged 27, who had escaped his native Belgium with his friend Capitaine A Van Den Hove d'Ertsenrijck (also killed on 15 September 1940) in May to fight on from Britain. His son Eric was just a year old.

 

Ross Smither, aged 27, from Canada. He had enlisted in the RCAF on 10 September 1939. His brother, also with the RCAF, would be killed in action on 5 June 1942, over France.

 

Roy Marchand, aged 22, from Kent. He had been a medical student at London University. He fought in France and had gotten married in May of 1940.

 

Geoffrey Gaunt, aged 24, from Yorkshire. He was a cousin of the actor James Mason.

 

John Gurteen, aged 24, from Suffolk. He had lived for a time in the United States after winning a scholarship there.

 

Michael Jebb, aged 22, from Northumberland. He was studying Mediaeval and Modern Languages at Trinity College, Cambridge, when he was called up on 1 September 1939. Severely burned on 15 September, he died of his injuries on the 19th.

 

Leslie Pidd, aged 22, from Yorkshire. A German fighter killed Pidd after he had taken to his parachute.

 

Arthur Pease, aged 22, from Yorkshire. He was reading History at Cambridge when called up in October of 1939.

 

Gerald Langley, aged 24, from Northamptonshire.

 

Tadeusz Chlopik, aged 32, from Poland. A pre-war Polish fighter pilot, he had escaped to Britain in 1940.

 

Michal Brzezowski, aged 20, from Poland. A fighter pilot in his homeland before the war, he fought with 151 Eskadra in defence of Poland, then escaped to France and fought with Groupe de Chasse II/6 of the French l'Armee de l'Air, before again escaping to Britain to fight on with 303 ("Kościuszko") Squadron.

 

Van den Hove d'Ertsenrijck, aged 32, from Belgium. He was one of only two Belgian fighter pilots to get airborne when the Force Aérienne Belge was destroyed, largely on the ground, on 10 May 1940, damaging one of the attacking bombers. He escaped to Britain by driving to Spain and thence to Gibraltar, for which he was marked as a deserter in his homeland until 1948.

 

They will never grow old, but their names will live forever.

[AdrianMF]

14 hours ago, Ventora3300 said:

this is the '70th Anniversary' one with the kits that were in place before all the new versions came out.

If that’s the old Airfix Heinkel I would leave it until last, build the other seven kits and then quietly bin it. It is a truly awful kit. I know because I have built it, backdated to an H1, here. Almost every part was either heavily modified or replaced to make it look like a Heinkel 111.

 

If you have an urge to build an old kit, either of the FROG or Italeri 111s are much better and rather closer to the BoB version.
 

Warning duly given 

 

Regards,

Adrian

[06/24]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again @Procopius you are a truly talented researcher/ writer

[Johnson]

An excellent piece @Procopius and a timely reminder that today is indeed Battle of Britain Day.

 

We should remember the young men who gave all to defend freedom.

[Rabbit Leader]

3 hours ago, 06/24 said:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again @Procopius you are a truly talented researcher/ writer

Don’t stop there... he ain’t half a bad modeller either! 

[JackG]

Special event 80 years to this day, as numerous onlookers during the lunch hour, witnessed the downing of a  Dornier over Westminster.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/595/Gunfight-over-WestminsterThe-Spitfire-Luck-of-Skeets-Ogilvie.aspx

 

regards,

Jack

[Merlin]

Sometimes its easy to forget there are Audio gems to be had.

Interview's with Keith Park, Dowding, Ginger Lacey, Dizzy Allen, and more.

Also a CD I bought from BoB Memorial Capel La Ferne, many radio talks by pilots inc Nicolson VC, the full Charles Gardner broadcast attack on shipping Ju87s. Highly recommended.

 

Keith Park, yes the man himself talking about BoB etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/air-chief-marshal-sir-keith-park/zd9247h

 

Interview with Dowding ! yes again the man himself....wow !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/air-chief-marshal-hugh-c-dowding/z62s7nb

 

BBC man alive the few 501 sqdn reunion Kenley. 1969

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/man-alive--the-few/zrrjgwx

 

rag dolls and salmon tins.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/postscript-to-the-news--group-captain-peel-and-jh-brown/zk47cqt

 

ginger lacey

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/a-fine-blue-day--james-ginger-lacey/zvf4scw

 

dizzy allen !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/a-fine-blue-day--wh-dizzy-allen/zfnrpg8

 

inside story – the spitfire

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/inside-story--the-spitfire/zvbwbdm

 

if anyone knows of anymore I would like to see links.

 

Cheers

 

Merlin

[stevej60]

Slightly inaccurate to say the least but I love the idea behind it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FROG-Battle-Of-Britain-Hawker-Hurricane-Junkers-JU87G-Stuka-1-72-Pre-owned/254717766567?hash=item3b4e5caba7%3Ag%3AjAIAAOSwfPBfXi8Z&LH_Auction=1

[Stew Dapple]

4 hours ago, stevej60 said:

Slightly inaccurate to say the least but I love the idea behind it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FROG-Battle-Of-Britain-Hawker-Hurricane-Junkers-JU87G-Stuka-1-72-Pre-owned/254717766567?hash=item3b4e5caba7%3Ag%3AjAIAAOSwfPBfXi8Z&LH_Auction=1

 

I remember that set! Almost equally historically inaccurate was the Blenheim I/Bf109F combi... simpler times eh?  

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[alt-92]

On 9/20/2020 at 3:48 PM, Stew Dapple said:

Almost equally historically inaccurate was the Blenheim I/Bf109F combi... simpler times eh?  

Implausible, but not totally impossible. The -F was after all a late 1940 introduction (at least one is supposed to have been tested in France on the BoB/Blitz edge..
And Blenheims soldiered on well into 1941 (Crete).

[Graham Boak]

But not with the choice of markings.  However, the various Dogfight Doubles sets rarely had historical combinations.  There were worse examples.

[Peter Roberts]

Saw 'Angels One Five' last week - an old b/w movie but very well done for it's time using Hurricanes borrowed from the Portugese Air Force. 

 

Well worth a look.

[Pete in Lincs]

18 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

Saw 'Angels One Five' last week

Good old Septic. Films like that fired my fascination with WW2 and Aircraft in general when I was a lad. 

That led to over fifty years of modelling and forty years working on military aircraft.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

 

Slightly out of period, yet a tribute to a BoB pilot so I thought it would be of interest. My latest build is the Czech L159 tribute to pilot František Peřina who briefly flew Hurricanes during the Bob after flying extensively for the French in May '40. The scheme is based on his later Spitfire V.

[Stew Dapple]

One month to go gentlemen

 

Gallery closes at midnight 31st October.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[Johnson]

2 hours ago, Stew Dapple said:

Gallery closes at midnight 31st October.

 ... Gulp!

[Tim R-T-C]

On 10/1/2020 at 6:16 AM, Stew Dapple said:

Gallery closes at midnight 31st October.

Fortunately I have not been distracted by any other builds at all...

 

Incidentally, does anyone have an Armenian military green paint I could borrow?

 

[Johnson]

Today would have been Edgar Brooks 80th Birthday (8th Oct 1940).

 

Happy Birthday Edgar! 🎂

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

55 minutes ago, Johnson said:

Happy Birthday Edgar! 🎂

Ditto. 

[William R]

Yes, a good Happy Birthday to Edgar above us all. No doubt soaring somewhere at full throttle and ready to admonish someone over Bakelite Spitfire seats.