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On 6/6/2020 at 2:37 AM, JackG said:

One of the editors informed me about their illustrations, that the fuselage codes height was based on an early 1939 photo.  The letters were definitely taller than the roundel. so there is some proof that at one time they were quite tall, so that is what they went with.

The Ducimus books describe that smaller code & roundel style as well, but it appears to be limited to the late 1938-late1939 period. At the outbreak of the war, many squadron codes were reshuffled or reassigned and the roundel style changed in October/November 1939 again.

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Yes, the marking 'evolution' is well illustrated, but the text is also interesting. 

- Pre-war had fuselage roundel of 35 inch with yellow surround

- Munich crisis of Sept. 1938 called for wartime markings to be applied.  This meant eliminating the yellow (painted over in the aircraft camouflage colour) as well as the white.   This resulted in a 25 inch roundel with the red center being 2/5 of the blue diameter. 

 

 yziUvAD.jpg

 

What is interesting is the memo for this (AMO A.154), was not passed until April 27th 1939 - close to 7 months after the fact.  So is this just late paperwork, or were there some units still flying with pre-war roundel configurations up to this point?

 

regards,

Jack

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After some advice from a BF109 expert....I am taking some guess's using basic knowledge, a reference book hand basic research, but it would be good to have someone confirm...

 

I have bought this BF109 from Airfix as a second BF109 build...Why you ask (I have an Eduard for my other build)....?

 

I got this one as Scalemates showed it had pretty much all bits needed on the sprues..

 

I want to model a 3rd Staffel Erprobungsgruppe BF109E-4/B using this kit.

 

I have deduced the following (see pics below) ....

 

1. Hollow nosed short yellow tip spinner

2. Unarmored later E model Windscreen

3. No head armour for the later E canopy

4. 250Kg bombs with the ETC 500 bomb rack

5. fighter number on the side smaller than standard

 

 

PrPKcDv.jpg

 

 

My questions are as follows:

 

Given the above, should I use part numbers 3, 6 and 8 for the canopy? I am guessing Part 9 is the armoured bit, part 4 for the telescope on some models, 5, 2 and  7 are for and E3?

 

rr6X5ls.jpg

 

0fpIQTG.jpg

 

Should I use spinner part 26?

 

kvuGQZP.jpg

 

 

is Part 36 the head armour I should omit from the build?

 

aWXbg5P.jpg

 

uMJzcbc.jpg

 

 

 

Amazing book - handy for my BF110D and this build....

 

 

hnoqop0.jpg

 

 

 

Anyone know of a decals sheet that would have yellow fighter numbers that are smaller? I have searched in vain....1 is mentioned in the build linkl at the bottom but just mentions a friend sourcing it....otherwise it will have to be standard size!

 

I know my questions may be a bit 'bone', but please be kind as I normally build modernish jets! I have seen a few builds and as references are fairly rare, some artistic license and assumptions from references of other airframes in the Staffel seem to be the way forward.

 

This shortlived unit are particularly interesting !

 

Any advice much appreciated!

 

 

 

The following pics are from the Asisbiz website.

 

Aircrew-Luftwaffe-3.ErprGr210-pilot-Hors

 

Aircrew-Luftwaffe-ground-grew-from-Erpro

 

Messerschmitt-Bf-109E-3.ErpGr210-armed-w

 

Messerschmitt-Bf-109E4B-3.ErpGr210-Yello

Messerschmitt-Bf-109E-3.ErpGr210-Yellow-

 

This guy built it as an E3? 

 

http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/features/bf109e348rm_1.htm

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I like the look of your 110 book Tim, looking forward to seeing some entry's on your build thread.

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9 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

I wonder if anyone can help me determine whether one of the Bf 110 C-1 options (2./ZG 76 W.Nr.3602/M8+AC (Maj. Erich Groth) or 9./ZG 76 2N+AP (Obl. Urban Schlaffer, Gefr. Frantz Obser)I have in this kit in my stash https://www.scalemates.com/kits/eduard-7081-bf-110c-d--162680 would be BoB eligible? V-P

 

Definitely scheme E as its the one I've got for mine, I may have to re-evaluate it being shot down by a Spitfire.

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22 hours ago, Tim Moff said:

After some advice from a BF109 expert....I am taking some guess's using basic knowledge, a reference book hand basic research, but it would be good to have someone confirm...

 

I have bought this BF109 from Airfix as a second BF109 build...Why you ask (I have an Eduard for my other build)....?

 

I got this one as Scalemates showed it had pretty much all bits needed on the sprues..

 

I want to model a 3rd Staffel Erprobungsgruppe BF109E-4/B using this kit.

 

I have deduced the following (see pics below) ....

 

1. Hollow nosed short yellow tip spinner

2. Unarmored later E model Windscreen

3. No head armour for the later E canopy

4. 250Kg bombs with the ETC 500 bomb rack

5. fighter number on the side smaller than standard

 

 

 

 

 

My questions are as follows:

 

Given the above, should I use part numbers 3, 6 and 8 for the canopy? I am guessing Part 9 is the armoured bit, part 4 for the telescope on some models, 5, 2 and  7 are for and E3?

 

rr6X5ls.jpg

 

0fpIQTG.jpg

the canopy parts should be obvious,  the earlier canopy has a rounded top, so do the front and rear section.

One glitch, Airifx studied the Bf109E3 at Hendon,  which at some point lost it's main canopy section, and is displayed with the centre section of G, which has heavier framing.

 

 

22 hours ago, Tim Moff said:

Should I use spinner part 26?

yes

22 hours ago, Tim Moff said:

 

is Part 36 the head armour I should omit from the build?

yes

22 hours ago, Tim Moff said:

Anyone know of a decals sheet that would have yellow fighter numbers that are smaller? I have searched in vain....1 is mentioned in the build linkl at the bottom but just mentions a friend sourcing it....otherwise it will have to be standard size!

maybe from a 72nd kit,  a full size number in 72nd is 2/3rd the size in 1/48th

ie number is 12 inches  high in 72nd, but is 8 inches high in 1/48th. 

 

 

22 hours ago, Tim Moff said:

 

there is very little, if any visual difference between an E3 and an E4,  

http://www.kagero.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=369:bf-10-e-4&catid=95&Itemid=688

 

Quote

The Bf 109 E-4, which entered production in 1940, differed from its predecessor, the E-3, in type of cannons. In place of the MG FFs, the improved MG FF/m cannons, firing the HE(M) projectiles (the so-called Minengeschoss – thin-walled, high-capacity shells) were mounted. Other variants of this versatile aircraft were adopted for performing high-altitude, photo reconnaissance, and fighter-bomber missions. The last ‘Emil’ to see service in numbers was the Bf 109 E-7. It was equipped with the DB 601 N engine and rigged with a ventral rack for carrying a drop tank, which vastly improved the fighter’s range.

 

as the Airfix kit has separate wing bulges,  and other bits ity can be built as an E-1/3/4/7, and as a trop as well.

 

I've just been reading Bombsights Over England as well,  if you have it, Steven Bungay - the Most Dangerous Enemy has makes some very interesting comments in the final chapter analysing the battle,  in how the Germans could have won,  including pointing out how effective the Epr 210 use of the Bf110 as a fighter bomber was,  albeit at a heavy cost. 

 

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Thanks very much Troy - will go with the canopy as per the model instructions as it’s an E4/7.

 

appreciate the confirmation on the other Qs - good call on the 1/72 Fighter Code number!

 

Not got The Most Dangerous  Enemy - will look it up.

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A question to the GB hosts @Procopius @Stew Dapple

 

Is it acceptable to enter the GB with this build?

 

I started it five years ago in the 75th Anniversary of the BoB GB. Unfortunately I didn't manage to finish it and it remained in the shelf of shame for the last five years. The fuselage is still open and there's some interior painting done as well as some detail work done on the cockpit. In the meantime I managed to finish the companion Defiant build.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

 

 

 

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I'm getting all excited about this group build. When does it start? I'm planning to do the Bf 110d as I always did. Now I thought I might add the Ju 88A-1 1/48. This is a 

Promodeller kit. I will convert it from a A-4 to A-1 using Aires resin parts. I have been doing the Dragon  Ju 188 in the Journeys end GB which I have really enjoyed the build. As this is basically the same kit I should be able to get it together easily.

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On 6/8/2020 at 11:34 AM, vppelt68 said:

I wonder if anyone can help me determine whether one of the Bf 110 C-1 options (2./ZG 76 W.Nr.3602/M8+AC (Maj. Erich Groth) or 9./ZG 76 2N+AP (Obl. Urban Schlaffer, Gefr. Frantz Obser)I have in this kit in my stash https://www.scalemates.com/kits/eduard-7081-bf-110c-d--162680 would be BoB eligible? V-P

 

 

Hi VP,

 

The M8+AC would be fine (though it is noted as a C-4 not a C-1), it made a forced landing at Little Butts Farm in Sussex on 04/09/1940, but Groth wasn't flying it at the time, the crew, who survived to become POWs are listed as Obltn Hermann Wieber (Gruppenadjutant of II/ZG76) and gunner Uffz Max Michael who was wounded. (Luftwaffe Crash Archive Vol.3 P324-325). 

 

The 2N+AP would be fine as others have noted, it made a good belly landing at Lees Farm in Sussex on 16/08/1940, the crew, Obltn Urban Schlaffer, staffelkapitan of 9/ZG 76 and gunner Ogefr Franz Obser both being taken prisoner (Luftwaffe Crash Archive Vol.2 P180).

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

 

 

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Hi folk's,three builds for this GB the CR 42 has arrived from Wez no running away from PE and Resin from this one,anyway I'm obliged to do an

oldie so secured a Frog and Monogram Do17 for the other two,both contain BoB schemes,the Monogram is a Revell blue box release so i don't

forsee any decal issues the Frog kit is sealed but I've been bitten before with their decal's are we covered for AM sets for this aircraft just in case?

 

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46 minutes ago, stevej60 said:

Frog kit is sealed but I've been bitten before with their decal's are we covered for AM sets for this aircraft just in case?

 

I seem to recall Techmod do a couple of sets for the Do17, Xtradecal do a set too, all of them with BoB markings included

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

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Hi Steve,

 

I think I may have some 17Z decs in my stash, though I might end up using at least one. If you get stuck give me a shout - may be able to help.

 

Pete

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@stevej60 can you post a picture of the sheet? I bought a bag of Frog transfers for (I think) £1.00 at Duxford in 1980 and I may have the complete sheet. If I’ve got it and yours is u/s, give me a shout and you can have it. I’ve been dipping into this stash ever since and even today I have no problems.

 

Trevor

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On 6/10/2020 at 1:30 AM, jrlx said:

I started it five years ago in the 75th Anniversary of the BoB GB. Unfortunately I didn't manage to finish it and it remained in the shelf of shame for the last five years. The fuselage is still open and there's some interior painting done as well as some detail work done on the cockpit. In the meantime I managed to finish the companion Defiant build.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

 

Looks like less than 25% to me Jaime, that should be fine.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

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51 minutes ago, Stew Dapple said:

 

Looks like less than 25% to me Jaime, that should be fine.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

Thanks Stew! Hopefully I'll manage to finish it this time :)

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

 

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On 6/15/2020 at 9:54 PM, Tim Moff said:

Just seen this .... 

THE SPITFIRE STORY Limited edition kit of British WWII aircraft Supermarine Spitfire Mk.I in 1/48 scale. Focused on machines from introduction into service to the end of Battle of the Britain. - plastic parts: Eduard - marking options: 10 - decals: Eduard - PE parts: yes, pre-painted AUGUST RELEASE EXPECTED LATE JULY!!!!

 

I see a well known firm in East Anglia are taking backorders for this kit (£57.20 - 10% for putting on backorder).

 

Not too bad for two new Eduard kits + lots of decal options. But the big question (for me at least) is what are the decals going to be like? I have several Eduard kits in the stash and haven't been impressed with the decal colours one bit, and Eduard have been getting poor reports here on BM.

 

But with the BoB GB coming up, might be worth a punt.

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On 6/10/2020 at 1:30 AM, jrlx said:

A question to the GB hosts @Procopius @Stew Dapple

 

Is it acceptable to enter the GB with this build?

 

 

Hi Jaime,

Reading of your issues with this kit sent me scuttling up to the man cave to see if my copy suffered from the same problems. Luckily, it seems all present and correct though it does feature some of the chunkiest ejector pin marks I have seen in a long time which, to add insult to injury, are coated in some sort of black gunge (mould release agent maybe?) making the marks even more prominent.

 

I’m looking forward to seeing you complete your build. 
 

Craig. 

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8 minutes ago, Dandie Dinmont said:

I’m looking forward to seeing you complete your build. 

Hi Craig,

 

Thank you very much for your interest. Now that the kit issues are sorted out, I hope to do a better job than when I started it, because in the mean time I finished a few kits with lots of PE.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

 

 

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On 21/05/2020 at 13:46, Scimitar F1 said:

Worth mentioning that those Matildas were largely Mk1s with just an MG.

 

The Battle of France to the British public now is overshadowed by Dunkirk. There were many impressive feats of arms at that time.

 

One reason why many of these are lost is that most written evidence at the time was lost in the evacuation 

As I believe the Matilda was built at the MG Factory in Abingdon, it really was just an MG after all !

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