RidgeRunner Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 As I say, I am curious. This curiosity has come about through building "Mr Toad", my current F-105. My question: we're other types also given reverse schemes? If so, which ones, and why was it done? Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I have only ever read of it when applied to the F-105 but just carried out a very quick and entirely unrepresentative , unscientific test using the search term 'F-4C Vietnam' and within second came across Print Scale decal sheet 72029 for various USAF Phantom variants in Vietnam and it has an F-4E in a reverse scheme , certainly something worth investigating further. The idea of the reverse scheme on the F-105 was to further camouflage formations of bombers from North Vietnamese fighters so its use on Phantoms in the bomber role seems reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Thanks Des. Maybe be it was initiated on the Thud and then abandoned before considering other types. That doesn't explain your Phamtom though! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing but 72029 doesn't have any reverse camo F-4s Edited October 16, 2018 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing but 72029 doesn't have any reverse camo F-4s https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PSL72029 - No.2 on the first page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Hmmm... No reverse camo there, Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: Hmmm... No reverse camo there, Des Sorry about that, I came across the term a while back when building an EF-105F which was described as being in the reverse scheme and from that took the term to describe a general but not too precise transposition of the tan and green areas as was the case with that particular subject which led me to think that was also the case with the example on the Print Scale sheet. I take that there a lot more to the difference between standard and reverse schemes that has passed me by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Ah ha! That's understandable, Des. The "reverse" scheme meant that the standard pattern was followed but colours were swapped. They are very different. Thanks for your input, though. :). Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: Ah ha! That's understandable, Des. The "reverse" scheme meant that the standard pattern was followed but colours were swapped. They are very different. Thanks for your input, though. :). Here is a perfect example of a reversed Thud: and a normal machine Martin Edited October 16, 2018 by RidgeRunner 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Thanks very much for that Martin , very clear from those images and obviously the EF-105 project I had based my understanding on was a bit of a hybrid , roughly but not quite fully conforming to the pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, Des said: Thanks very much for that Martin , very clear from those images and obviously the EF-105 project I had based my understanding on was a bit of a hybrid , roughly but not quite fully conforming to the pattern. To be fair the application of the scheme was extremely variable. The example I showed above is just one example of it! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 2:58 PM, RidgeRunner said: and a normal machine Martin Martin, top photo is the one I referenced in my thread--sorry about not being able to directly link--best Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 It's Print Scale... They are not known for accuracy. I have a picture of F-4E 67-0210 with those exact markings, and it clearly shows the standard scheme, i.e. the Print Scale profile is reversed. Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 On 11/16/2018 at 8:31 AM, Jens said: It's Print Scale... They are not known for accuracy. Ah , that clears that up then. I have been looking through a few of my Vietnam War era references and have come across a couple of examples of RF-101C (not the various trial schemes) and AC-47 where the standard camouflage colours are used in quite different patterns but not following the very definite reverse style as illustrated by the F-105s above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) That's right, Des. The standard approved pattern varied hugely, while keeping the colours within the correct segments. Therefore the colours appeared in the same areas of each aircraft while maintaining the same outline pattern. The F-105s differed as colours were superimposed while keeping the pattern. Martin Edited November 17, 2018 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Brown Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 There were two different camouflage patterns on the RF-101. There was the one in the T.O. And another that I’ve never been able to locate an official drawing for. The non-T.O. scheme was fairly common and was seen on both the RF-101A/C and the RF-101G/H. I first assumed the ones with the non-T.O. pattern were all painted at the same depot, but I’m not really sure that’s the case. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 (edited) Thanks Ben. Yes, there was certainly another scheme adopted for Voodoos that was apart from the standard pattern and colours, being a mix of greys and greens. There was also at least one RF-101A in an unorthodox "camo" scheme. I've still not seen any other types with the same reverse style that was employed on the Thud. Martin Edited November 18, 2018 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 According to Squadron Signal's 'Voodoo' and 'Century Series In Colour' which each show a few of them there were a number of RF-101A trial camouflage schemes tested at Shaw AFB starting with the Cuban Crisis and carrying on through the 1960s for both operational and corrosion control reasons , these included :- Overall black with red titles and serials , full-size full colour national markings and had a large yellow TAC lightning flash with badge on the tail. Overall ADC Grey (later adopted as standard until the TO scheme was introduced) , full-size full colour national markings, titles and serials and had a large yellow TAC lightning flash with badge on the tail Overall medium green with some wide wraparound darker stripes , small black/dark grey outline style national markings and reduced size US Air Force titles. Overall medium green with many thin wraparound darker stripes ,full-size full colour national markings and normal size US Air Force titles. Two shades of green and one of medium brown and retaining the ADC grey undersides complete with Buzz Number , full-size full colour national markings and normal size US Air Force titles. If photo captions are accurate then that final scheme was also carried by RF-101C operating out of Tan Son Nhut in Vietnam prior to the TO scheme being adopted but possibly with light grey/off-white undersides . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Brown Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Thanks for the clarification, Des. I forgot to mention the experimental schemes. I should have said there were two versions after they finalized the Southeast Asia camouflage colors in the T.O. Once I get back to my computer this week I’ll dig up what I have on the two and can post a little more info, if anyone is interested. Cheers! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Here is a Thud: skip ahead to the 49:17 mark and you can make out a few more. Jari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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