Selwyn Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 71 Sqn were formed at Church fenton initially on Brewster Buffalos which I believe were some of the Belgian examples diverted to the RAF. Has anybody seen a photo of any of these aircraft, or has any further details? Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) It should be possible to find the serials, will that be enough? PS Fighter Squadrons of the RAF says 71 Sq had three Buffaloes, two of which were AS414 and AS521, Edited October 11, 2018 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 14 hours ago, Graham Boak said: It should be possible to find the serials, will that be enough? PS Fighter Squadrons of the RAF says 71 Sq had three Buffaloes, two of which were AS414 and AS521, Graham I was looking for a photo to see if any of them carried full sqn (XR) markings, I know they only operated them for a month or so but as a new sqn they may in the spirit of "esprit de corps" have applied these codes, As something a bit different I am looking to build a buffalo kit I have had in the stash for eons in these markings, if of course it happened! Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 You can preview the ORB for the relevant period at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8453429. There is only a summary of events, suggesting no operations were flown. If you enlarge and squint past the watermark you will see three Brewsters were delivered on 24/10/40. Nine Hurricanes were delivered on 7/11/40 at which point I guess the Brewsters were relinquished. There is no record I can see of codes or serials - part of the image is blocked by a watermark but I suspect nothing interesting is hidden. The tone of the ORB suggests the squadron was happy to get aircraft so might well have made sure their identity was on them but that is just my guess. Not a lot of help but it looks like one of those things for which no evidence exists either way. If you want a scan of the Profile - which has a number of photos of the ex-Belgian Buffaloes in RAF/FAA markings then PM me an email address. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hi from memory (as my books are in storage) there was either in bowyer fighting colours or american aircraft of world war 2 , there was a set of vol 1 &2 ( both around in the 70's ) a short story on these buffalos, including mention of a couple ? of bellylandings of them, and i think serials sorry i cant help more cheers jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 What I was remembering was something like, "Yes, the Buffalos came and the Squadron Leader took one up and deliberately belly-landed it." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackem01 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I was intending to finish mine in the GB as a 71sqn machine, and despite trawling through various books and magazines I have not been able to find any mention of coded machines. I don't think they carried any but am happy to be proved wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Well, according to this there might be some truth to my memory! Not sure that this counts as documentation? Edited October 12, 2018 by gingerbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, gingerbob said: Well, according to this there might be some truth to my memory! Not sure that this counts as documentation? There is mention of a crash in the ORB, but only one that I saw and there was a mechanical reason given. Obviously the ORB would not record if it was given a helping hand to crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, gingerbob said: Well, according to this there might be some truth to my memory! Not sure that this counts as documentation? Well the serial is correct for a 71 Sq example, but where's the Sky band and spinner? PS The appropriate Air Britain book simply says "To Admiralty" for the AS4xx serial Buffaloes. So the third one remains a mystery. Edited October 12, 2018 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 7 hours ago, rossm said: You can preview the ORB for the relevant period at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8453429. There is only a summary of events, suggesting no operations were flown. If you enlarge and squint past the watermark you will see three Brewsters were delivered on 24/10/40. Nine Hurricanes were delivered on 7/11/40 at which point I guess the Brewsters were relinquished. 45 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: Well the serial is correct for a 71 Sq example, but where's the Sky band and spinner? Well, Sky band and spinner not until 27 November 1940, so the envelope profile is ok for the date. Unless I'm being dim and have misread something... But a Buffalo and a Hurricane both in 71sq markings together would make an interesting display! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I'm not sure any photos exist of the Buffaloes due to their short "service". They arrived on the 24th October and were left behind when 71 moved to Kirton-in-Lindsey at the end of the month, being replaced properly there by the arrival of Hurricanes on the 7th November. It's certain that both Phil Lechrone and the CO Walter Churchill pranged two of the Buffaloes. The rumour goes that Churchill instructed his charges to land with the tail wheel not locked, something which had a tendency to contribute to the aircraft to spin around and usually end up tipping up onto one wing tip - damaging it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmaas Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I've been looking for a long time but 71 Squadron marked Buffaloes remain one of my 'Holy Grails'. The postcard illustration could be legitimate but....the camouflage pattern is incorrect for a Belgian-order derived Buffalo, and the 'Type B" wing insignia for the Belgian-derived aircraft were much further inboard. The British order (Wxxxx and ANxxx series) had the upper wing insignia out almost to the wingtip; when the (earlier) Belgian-derived aircraft were received, the RAF insignia was painted over the original Belgian location. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 11 hours ago, jimmaas said: and the 'Type B" wing insignia for the Belgian-derived aircraft were much further inboard. The British order (Wxxxx and ANxxx series) had the upper wing insignia out almost to the wingtip; when the (earlier) Belgian-derived aircraft were received, the RAF insignia was painted over the original Belgian location. Photos in the Buffalo Profile show AS426 on trials with the upper and lower wing roundels inboard (and no Sky band) but AS427 after issue to the FAA with the lower ones outboard (and a Sky band) suggesting some degree of repainting at some time. No way to be sure when this happened, maybe with the move to the FAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 13 hours ago, rossm said: Photos in the Buffalo Profile show AS426 on trials with the upper and lower wing roundels inboard (and no Sky band) but AS427 after issue to the FAA with the lower ones outboard (and a Sky band) suggesting some degree of repainting at some time. No way to be sure when this happened, maybe with the move to the FAA. for ease of reference whole profile here https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Aircraft-Profiles/USA/World-War-Two/Brewster-Buffalo-217 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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