Revell HP Victor B1 conversion. Yikes!

[At Sea]

Great work so far!

 

If you haven't done too much with the resin bomb bay doors may I suggest that inside the Airfix  K.2 which I think you said you have there are B.2 bomb doors.  Part number C4.  

 

I think that part is also in my B.2 box but I'd have to check.

[Timmas]

1 hour ago, At Sea said:

Great work so far!

 

... inside the Airfix  K.2 which I think you said you have there are B.2 bomb doors.  Part number C4.  

 

I think that part is also in my B.2 box but I'd have to check.

Ah that’s interesting, I’ll take s look in my boxes. Thanx for the info.

[Timmas]

Progress is slow. It's been a few weeks since I last reported on this. Real life has intervened. We feel as though we're in the eye of a storm with all sorts of stuff going on around us with family and friends at the moment. But that's how things go sometimes I guess.

 

Anyway, this is where I’m at right now.

 

I cut the fuselage away to take the bomb bay. That was easier than I thought it would be, but the cutting action opened up the lower joint again almost the full length of the fuselage. I’ve since re-glued and re-filled it and, while I was able to get at the inside of the top seam, I ran more glue long the inside of it.

 

The black caps that cover the intake braces had to be slimmed down because they prevented the resin infill sitting properly…

 

 

…but once they were done, and I’d done a bit of additional sanding and trimming, the new piece fitted pretty well except for a very slight bow along its length, and a slight width difference towards the rear…

 

 

 

I decided to use the slow setting epoxy glue to attach the new piece because it gave me the opportunity to fine-tune the alignment in the early stage of hardening. I don’t possess anything as sophisticated as Bermaclamps, but a rummage through the shed revealed some old G clamps in various shapes and sizes. One of them was just right for squeezing the fuselage together (I can't be sure, but I think it once belonged to a child's tool set that my eldest son Dan had when he was little). None of the others had enough reach to stretch beyond the intakes and bay in place along its length, so I resorted to trusty rubber bands. It’s not a particularly elegant solution but it seemed to do the job pretty well…

 

 

When the glue had set, the part had moved slightly and I realised that some serious sanding was necessary to the resin and the styrene, So out with the face mask...

 

 

And here’s how it looks now …

 

 

Filling and sanding has been really tricky due to the confined space between the bomb bay and the engine inserts and I’ve ended up doing more than I’d hoped for. I hate doing it because I seldom seem to be able to get it quite right.  All of the joints feel good but in my limited experience I’ve come to realise that that doesn’t necessarily mean anything, and if a line is visible, the join isn’t filled properly. I’ve sanded the living daylights out of the kit so far, even to the point of removing some of the deepest panel lines, but I can still see the joins.  Is it just a case of hoping for the best and waiting until the primer is on to see what else needs doing?

 

NB: If anyone else is contemplating doing this, whatever you do, put the bomb bay in before you attach the intakes.  Don’t do what I’ve done and fit it afterwards! 

 

The next task is to tackle the canopy and bomb aimer’s window. I can’t say I’m looking forward to that. Actually, I’m feeling a bit flat about the whole thing at the moment and I’m not happy with it. It looks like a pile of crap. I don’t know if that’s; (a) because I lost momentum when life got in the way, (b) whether it’s down to all the tedious filling and sanding or (c) it really is crap. 

 

Anyway, whatever, I can’t give up now, so I’ll press on and see what develops.

 

As ever, thanks for looking.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Timmas

[Magua87]

Perhaps try a blast of primer to see how it looks before continuing. I've been working on some old airfix kits with raised panel lines and rivets. I've sanded the hell out of the kit with various grades of sandpaper. It's now smooth as a baby's bottom, but you wouldn't know it by looking at it. You can somehow still see each and every one of those rivets. 

[Timmas]

On 11/21/2018 at 6:33 PM, Magua87 said:

Perhaps try a blast of primer to see how it looks before continuing. 

That's good  advice, thanks. I'll do it and see how it looks

[Learstang]

I've found that when completely sanding panel lines out, as I've done with a few Shturmovik kits (many kits have metal panel lines on the rear fuselage, few real world Shturmoviks did), the lines still show up. The surface, however, is perfectly smooth and these are just 'ghosts', as I call them. They're an artefact of the plastic being compressed along that panel line or having some sort of different quality from the surrounding plastic that makes it look different. Once I apply some primer, these ghost lines disappear.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[Timmas]

18 hours ago, Learstang said:

I've found that when completely sanding panel lines out, as I've done with a few Shturmovik kits (many kits have metal panel lines on the rear fuselage, few real world Shturmoviks did), the lines still show up. The surface, however, is perfectly smooth and these are just 'ghosts', as I call them. They're an artefact of the plastic being compressed along that panel line or having some sort of different quality from the surrounding plastic that makes it look different. Once I apply some primer, these ghost lines disappear.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

Ah that's worth knowing, thanks. I'll be putting some primer on it over the weekend.

 

At the beginning of this, I had a kind of cunning plan to leave a hint of the raised detail visible which I would subsequently use as guides for panel lines. But now that most of it has gone I need to rethink that idea 🤔

[general melchett]

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We feel as though we're in the eye of a storm with all sorts of stuff going on around us with family and friends at the moment. But that's how things go sometimes I guess.

Keep going Tim...we've all been there, believe me! 

Quote

 I don’t know if that’s; (a) because I lost momentum when life got in the way, (b) whether it’s down to all the tedious filling and sanding

Do what I did, (1) take up embroidery, (2) start a dispute with a neighbour over his out-of-control Lelandi or (3) go for a long walk in the local woods with a big stick and thrash something half to death, (preferably an inanimate object) while screaming the German national anthem at full volume...that usually does the trick.

 

I completely agree that a couple of blasts of primer will change things for the better, (I use Alclads Grey and White Microfiller/Primers for that very reason.....hides/reveals any issues and makes the world feel a generally better place to be.

 

PS don't worry about all those pesky panel lines...you could hardly see any on the early white V-Bombers as they were smoothed over with putty in the factory and the thick gloopy white Titane anti-flash paint made sure everything was sealed up for good. Access hatches were a different matter but even they were quite muted, especially in 1/72nd scale. The white Victors were covered in myriad small dark stencil markings which would help alleviate the white 'kitchen appliance' look of a smooth model, but personally, I'd go for slightly different white tones to add scale effect. 

 

[Harry_the_Spider]

Get it primed!

 

I know how you feel about a loss of momentum BTW. I've got a Crusader that has been untouched since August because i've been busy with grown up stuff. Got to finish that before I can start on my next build... A Revell Victor with resin intakes.

[Timmas]

2 hours ago, general melchett said:

Keep going Tim...we've all been there, believe me! 

Do what I did, (1) take up embroidery, (2) start a dispute with a neighbour over his out-of-control Lelandi or (3) go for a long walk in the local woods with a big stick and thrash something half to death, (preferably an inanimate object) while screaming the German national anthem at full volume...that usually does the trick.

 

I completely agree that a couple of blasts of primer will change things for the better, (I use Alclads Grey and White Microfiller/Primers for that very reason.....hides/reveals any issues and makes the world feel a generally better place to be.

 

PS don't worry about all those pesky panel lines...you could hardly see any on the early white V-Bombers as they were smoothed over with putty in the factory and the thick gloopy white Titane anti-flash paint made sure everything was sealed up for good. Access hatches were a different matter but even they were quite muted, especially in 1/72nd scale. The white Victors were covered in myriad small dark stencil markings which would help alleviate the white 'kitchen appliance' look of a smooth model, but personally, I'd go for slightly different white tones to add scale effect. 

 

Embroidery sounds like a safe option. Or flower arranging might do the trick. Actually I'm really rather drawn to moderate violence so the stick thrashing might be an excellent alternative. I'll give it some thought.

 

I still haven't primed it as there's all sorts of stuff going on right now, and I haven't had a clear head nor enough time. But when I do, I'll probably use Mr Surfacer 1000 (grey) initially cos that's all I've got!! The plan at the moment is to use Halfords white primer on top of it once I'm happy with the finish, followed by Toyota White eventually. On the panel lines, I'm contemplating pencilling them in with a sharp, hard lead...something like a 6H but I'm a way off that yet and plans are made to be broken so that might change! I do like the idea of different shades of white, especially after seeing Seversky's jaw dropping TSR2. 

 

I'm also anguishing about the canopy now too, as that's on the horizon.

 

I've bitten my finger nails down to the stumps already.

 

Oh dear.

[Timmas]

16 minutes ago, Harry_the_Spider said:

Get it primed!

 

I know how you feel about a loss of momentum BTW. I've got a Crusader that has been untouched since August because i've been busy with grown up stuff. Got to finish that before I can start on my next build... A Revell Victor with resin intakes.

Good luck with the Victor. It's a challenge (well, it is for me) but I'm enjoying it and I imagine you will too. I'll know I'll get back into it soon...the primer is thinned, it's in a bottle, the airbrush is clean and everything is ready...all I need is a clear head and a bit of time!

[Harry_the_Spider]

Out of interest how are the compressor blades done on the “full” resin wing part? I’ve only got the engine intakes in resin, so the kit blades are used and stuck over holes in the back of it.

 

 

Actually, I've accidentally ended up with two of the damn things to build. One will be OOB, the other splattered with resin and photo etch.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Harry_the_Spider

[Timmas]

27 minutes ago, Harry_the_Spider said:

Out of interest how are the compressor blades done on the “full” resin wing part? I’ve only got the engine intakes in resin, so the kit blades are used and stuck over holes in the back of it.

 

 

Actually, I've accidentally ended up with two of the damn things to build. One will be OOB, the other splattered with resin and photo etch.

There isn't any compressor detail inside the resin intakes at all. The kit's plastic parts don't look as if they'll fit and there's nothing on the photo-etched sheet. I was a bit disconcerted about them to begin with, but I don't think you'll see much inside anyway because the B1 intakes are much smaller than those of the K2. That's unless I've missed something of course!!

 

I'm not sure I'd want to build two of these tbh. I feel that one is enough! I have a couple of Airfix ones in my stash...they will obviously be so much easier to build than this one. 

[Harry_the_Spider]

Going to do them simultaneously, and I'm not doing as much surgery as you.

 

The missus will freak out when she sees the size of them.

[Timmas]

6 hours ago, Harry_the_Spider said:

The missus will freak out when she sees the size of them.

You could always tell her it's an optical illusion and, as it's a known fact that some cars look bigger in certain colours, the same applies to some aircraft.

 

...and don't forget to tell us how you get on...!

[Harry_the_Spider]

There will be a WIP thread. 

[Timmas]

1 minute ago, Harry_the_Spider said:

There will be a WIP thread. 

Great, I look forward to seeing it. Actually I meant tell us how you get on trying to persuade the other half about the size of the models!

[Retired Bob]

Hi Timmas

Just found this thread while I was working on the airfix Victor, I can only ask WHY!  I bought the matchbox Victor back in 1983, and I have made sure its stayed in the box ever since,  I did think about buying the resin conversion and make a B1 but instead I put my fingers in a vice and closed it until the thought went away. With the advent of the airfix kit , and wanting a clean airframe I have decided to revert the B.2 airframe to pre blue steel standard, no carrots, no refuelling probe and certainly no external tanks. Now if I have done my homework right and I would be happy to be corrected if I am wrong, externally the only difference's are the smaller root intake hump at the base of the fin and the single pitot tube on the nose. I have added the port wing root intake and underwing exhaust but it is difficult to pinpoint when these were added to the B.2, the prototype did not have them, the blue steel and SR.2 had them but they were blanked off for the K.2 tankers.  I intend to paint it in anti flash white with low viz markings and 100 sqn badge, XM715 that still exists at Bruntingthorpe.  Just a thought that this idea could save you, or anyone else that wants a clean Victor a lot of anguish, no insult intended.

 

Bob

 

 

 

[general melchett]

 

Quite right Bob, As well as the smaller fin extension, (for the Red Steer TWR) and single sim-feel bellows nose 'pitot', the B2 Interim as it was known, the early airframes also had the B1 style 'nose flaps' fitted to the leading edges of the outer wings before they were permanently fixed. This is important because when at rest and the flaps retracted the outer wing leading edges were perfectly straight instead of permanently drooped as per the later aircraft (and kit).  Also, no oil coolers were present on the undersides of the intakes at this stage. The port side root intake for the VCCP and the underwing APU intake/exhaust were fitted on production aircraft at the factory. One further difference concerned the number of intake flow vanes, with the early B2 only having two per intake (one either side of the central 'splitter') while the later Mk 2s had four per side.

 

I too have one of these on the go and agree that they looked a lot more graceful with the clean and long wings before all the lumps and bumps came along and forever altered the streamlined design.

I also have a spare Airfix kit ready to hack up as a B1 using the Flighpath set, a swear box and a very big hammer....... can't have too many early Victors!

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, general melchett said:

the early airframes also had the B1 style 'nose flaps' fitted to the leading edges of the outer wings

Except the last 7? built, which had the later fixed droop leading edge from new, so if you want anearly B2 but don't fancy modding the wing leading edge you can still do it as per the general's advice, you just need to get the right serial no. Away from my refs atm.  ottomh, XM706-XM712?

[Timmas]

6 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

Hi Timmas

Just found this thread while I was working on the Airfix Victor, I can only ask WHY! 

Good question lol! I don't know the finite detail of the Victor's development, and when I bought the kit it was the only way I could see of getting a B1. I love the purity of its lines. Things weren't going too badly until I fitted the bomb bay; putting it in at this stage has made cleaning up really awkward. But I've got this far and there's no turning back. I have a mental picture of how the finished thing will look and I want to see if I can achieve it. If I can, I'll be really pleased. If I can't well, I'll have learnt a lot along the way and will be better equipped to make a better job of the next one.

[general melchett]

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Except the last 7? 

I think it was five Dave, XM714 through to XM718, the last production B2. (XM706-12 never existed). But you're quite right, it is possible to build these aircraft straight from the kit.

[general melchett]

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it was the only way I could see of getting a B1. I love the purity of its lines. 

Unless you could get hold of one of this Tim...poor photo taken on a Brownie Box camera of a Frog Victor I built, (and modded) way back in 1992. It was given to me part-started by a collector in Darlington for the price of postage. I still have it in an airtight box along with a Vulcan and pair of Valiants...

 

 

 

 

Or the Lindberg/Revell offering, which actually can be modded into a very respectable prototype HP80...(both kits are in 1/96th).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by general melchett

[Timmas]

1 hour ago, general melchett said:

Unless you could get hold of one of this Tim...poor photo taken on a Brownie Box camera of a Frog Victor I built, (and modded) way back in 1992. It was given to me part-started by a collector in Darlington for the price of postage. I still have it in an airtight box along with a Vulcan and pair of Valiants...

 

 

 

 

Or the Lindberg/Revell offering, which actually can be modded into a very respectable prototype HP80...(both kits are in 1/96th).

 

 

 

 

 

They're both beautiful General. Thanks for sharing. Seeing them spurs me on...I know mine won't be a patch on either, but if I can get somewhere, anywhere remotely near either of them them I'll be extremely happy. On the protype HP80, a couple of parts of the tail are grey. I'm curious about those.

[general melchett]

Thanks Tim, 

Quote

 Seeing them spurs me on

Glad you said that... that's the reason I posted them 

 

I don't really know why the grey areas were painted that way, dissimilar materials or just for appearance?...the two HP80's appeared this way when painted in overall High-Speed Silver, black and silver, (for the SBAC shows) and WB775, when in Cerulean Blue for the same reason.