general melchett Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 No problem Tim, go for it, Yes, that's the type, classic photo! of a classic aircraft..., for detail nerds, like me you'll notice the vortex generators around the 'nostril' NACA vents' used to solve the annoying resonance caused by air entering them at high speed. Apparently, it was an extremely annoying buzzing sound and several 'fixes' were dreamt up for the problem including adding shrouds, (tested unsuccessfully on B1 XA918 and B2 prototype XH668) before they settled on the vgs, which worked well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 A little more progress of sorts although it feels like one step forward and one back. I looked at the wings again and realised that they both had pronounced droops. From what I gather, B2 Victors had drooped wings but the B1's were comparatively straight. My steel rule splints were used to make sure the two separate parts ligned up properly when they were glued together. They worked, but didn't do anything to straighten the wings out. So I had a go at taking out the curves by leaving them overnight sandwiched between two sheets of mdf underneath some weight. Nothing happened. So I've resorted to more drastic measures and have been experimenting with hot water. It was nerve wracking but I think I have a result. Here's the method I used. I'm sure other folk have their own recipes: 1 Fill a large pan with water (the pan needs to be big enough to contain the part — I used my wife's preseving pan. Getting permission is a good idea). 2 Bring the water to the point of simmering (NOT BOILING). 3 Hold the part firmly, in a non critical place, with pliers (I used part of the wheel well), and lower it into the water. DON'T LET IT TOUCH THE BOTTOM OF THE PAN! 4 Pray. 5 Gently agitate the part in the water for 10-15 seconds (I count using 'elephants', as in 'one elephant', 'two elephant', 'three elephant' and so on up to 15). 6 Lift the part out, place it on the worktop and press gently downwards with your fingers until the part lays flat (ish). You need to be quick. Keep the pressure on for a few seconds as the part cools. 7 Pray. 8 Repeat if necessary. 9 Pray. 10 Drop the part into a bowl of cold water (I used the washing up bowl). I didn't take any shots of the actual process I'm afraid as I was concentrating on not messing up. But here are a few stills. The water is just beginning to simmer in the pan... The wings, straight from the washing up bowl. They're pretty straight. I didn't take any pics of how they looked before the 'treatment' either, but if you've got the kit you'll know how curved they actually are. Luckily the only casualty was a snapped-off wingtip. But that's easily stuck on again... And here's a view along the edges. I'm going to leave them at that. I daren't push my luck..! Next job is to carry on drilling the jet pipes in the resin parts. That should keep me busy for a bit. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Well, fortune doesn't favour the brave! but then why not, looks like it worked. Mind you there's a whole lot of praying involved in this spell. Quote (I count using 'elephants', as in 'one elephant', 'two elephant', 'three elephant' and so on up to 15). In the words of the immortal Python team...'then shalt thou count to 15, no more, no less. 15 shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be 15. 16 shalt thou not count, neither count thou 14, excepting that thou then proceed to 16. 17 is right out. Once the number 15, being the 15th number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade/Frying Pan of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naught in My sight, shall snuff it'........you get my drift! 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) Not a huge amount of progress, but some. After the hubble bubble toil and trouble with the wings, I did a bit more drilling of the jet exhausts but noticed that the resin is becoming dangerously thin so I’m leaving it as it is now. I’d like to go deeper but I’m not taking the risk of damaging the parts. The holes are two or three times deeper than they were to begin with and, if finished with some jet black black paint (sorry about the pun), they should be ok… I’ll make circular discs to tidy up the innards, but since my circle cutter won’t go down to 8mm I’ve taken these old things out of mothballs to draw the circles. I've not used them for over 25 years, but apart from a bit of dust they seem to be in pretty good nick. I knew there was a reason for keeping them all this time… As a break fro drilling I thought I’d make the tailplane assembly and add the metal intake. The vertical kit part comes in two halves and the horizontal tailplanes are each made of two parts. So there are six different parts in all. This is how it sort of goes together. Blending those curves is going to be a challenge… Here’s how it looks so far. The tailplane is such a strongly defining part of the plane that it all absolutely has to be straight. I think I’ve got the horizontals correct, but after spending some hours on it (I’m still not wholly convinced that I’ve blended the curves well enough yet)... ...there’s a problem. the whole thing looks wonky. At first I thought I’d made a huge blunder, which is certainly a possibility as I never underestimate my ability to make a cock up, but looking it it again it appears that the two halves of the vertical aren’t exactly the same. I’ve barely touched those areas with sanding sticks so I know I’ve not slimmed one side down through over enthusiasm… It’s weird. Difficult to see in the photo but the moulding on the starboard side of the part doesn’t seem to quite match the port side, which means the whole things looks like it’s slightly offset, or twisted. At least it looks that way to me. And it’s driving me nuts. However, I’m old enough to know that if you think you see a problem, the more you look at it, the more obvious it appears to become. I’m pretty sure I’ve drilled the de-icing hole in the metal part fractionally off-centre which doesn’t help either, so I’ll have to fix that, but I just don’t know if the assembly is really twisted or if it’s in my imagination. What do you chaps think? Is it? If it is, the only option I can see at the moment is to cut the top part off, move it sideways a gnat’s and glue it back on again. That’s going to be difficult. Incidentally, is the rear face of the bullet shape thing that runs along the top centre supposed to be squared off? This is how the kit part has it... Looking at reference photos, it appears as if it is...but General Melchett’s sublime-looking version of this has an equally beautiful resin tailplane assembly which shows a rear facing bullet, so I don’t know. Here's a pic I've found online. The rear bit does seem to be squared off... Thinking ahead, I’m trying to work out how I’m going to paint the whole thing when it’s finally finished. On the few model jets I’ve made so far I’ve been able to poke something into the exhaust pipes to support the kit and apply the paint gradually all round. It worked ok on my Vulcan but it isn’t going to be an option on this because the exhausts aren’t deep enough. So I’m thinking about leaving the tail cone off until last, painting it separately, then glueing it on afterwards. I think I can cobble some kind of supporting method for the rest of it by poking something into the back end of the fuselage which will provide some support while I paint the rest. Does anyone have a view on that? Anyway, with the tailcone on my mind I put it together and test fitted. It still needs work… That’s it so far. All comments welcome. Edited October 15, 2018 by Timmas 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Great progress! I know what you mean about staring too long at a perceived problem. Fot what it's worth that tailplane and fin assembly looks spot-on to me. Interesting point about how to support her while spraying. I'm at the same stage with my Buccaneer and also limited by shallow exhausts. I'm going to leave off the airbrake assembly and rather crudely 'shove a rod up the back end' for want of a better phrase! I'm sure that would work with your Victor too. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Nie work. To me it looks as though the leading edge of the starboard side of the tail plane is thicker than the port. Could this be contributing to the slightly wonky appearance? Martian 👽 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lord Riot said: Great progress! I know what you mean about staring too long at a perceived problem. Fot what it's worth that tailplane and fin assembly looks spot-on to me. Interesting point about how to support her while spraying. I'm at the same stage with my Buccaneer and also limited by shallow exhausts. I'm going to leave off the airbrake assembly and rather crudely 'shove a rod up the back end' for want of a better phrase! I'm sure that would work with your Victor too. Thanks Lord. I'll have to take another look at it as the famous Martian has come up with something (see below). Your Bucc looks nice too by the way. What make of kit is it? 1 hour ago, Martian Hale said: Nie work. To me it looks as though the leading edge of the starboard side of the tail plane is thicker than the port. Could this be contributing to the slightly wonky appearance? Martian 👽 Huge thanks Martian. I think you've got something there. When I was handling it, the starboard wing felt slightly different than the port but I hadn't made the connection. I've just measured them and you're dead right. Amazing how another pair (or more?) of eyes can spot things that we can't, especially when they're extra-terrestrial 👁️👁️👁️. I'll get the sanding sticks out ! Edited October 15, 2018 by Timmas 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Good job Tim, I have to agree with young Martian, the plastic on the left definitely looks thicker than the right, contributing to the 'one over the eight' appearance. I seem to recall having a similar problem with mine hence the resin replacement. Besides that, the kit's bullet fairing is the wrong shape, it should be a smooth, slightly elongated egg shape, not a perfectly round cone. You're quite right about the rear part, it should be 'squared off', not sloped, (it actually housed a rear light). This is the only part of the old Matchbox jalopy that is actually more accurate than the Airfix kit, which is way too short... Keep going, you'll get there......Victor Ludorum! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey-1980 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Outstanding build so far!! Very impressed with your methods and the conversion work you are doing here! I have a K2 Victor in the stash waiting to be built, so I'm watching this with great interest! Keep up the good work chap! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 3 hours ago, general melchett said: Good job Tim, I have to agree with young Martian, the plastic on the left definitely looks thicker than the right, contributing to the 'one over the eight' appearance. I seem to recall having a similar problem with mine hence the resin replacement. Besides that, the kit's bullet fairing is the wrong shape, it should be a smooth, slightly elongated egg shape, not a perfectly round cone. You're quite right about the rear part, it should be 'squared off', not sloped, (it actually housed a rear light). This is the only part of the old Matchbox jalopy that is actually more accurate than the Airfix kit, which is way too short... Keep going, you'll get there......Victor Ludorum! Thanks GM, your input is really valuable. I'm glad you found the same thickness thing on the tailplane with your's coz I was wondering if I'd made a horlicks of it. It's very easy to take stuff away if one is over-vigorous but much harder to put it back!. I've slimmed it down a bit since @Martian spotted it and it does look much better. I'd also noticed the shape of the bullet fairing and was kind of ignoring it. But now that you've mentioned it perhaps I'll try to re-shape it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Mikey-1980 said: Outstanding build so far!! Very impressed with your methods and the conversion work you are doing here! I have a K2 Victor in the stash waiting to be built, so I'm watching this with great interest! Keep up the good work chap! That's very kind of you...thanx for your support. If what I'm doing tempts your's out of your stash that can only be a good thing. IMO there can ever, ever be enough V- Bombers (preferably white), in any scale. 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey-1980 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Absolutely agree....though I am tempted to a have the K2 in front of XM607 refueling ahead of the bombing run on the Blackbuck 1 mission. Both in glorious 1/72 scale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mikey-1980 said: Absolutely agree....though I am tempted to a have the K2 in front of XM607 refueling ahead of the bombing run on the Blackbuck 1 mission. Both in glorious 1/72 scale That will be some diorama...I hope you do it. I have a 1/72 Vulcan and know how large it is and as the Victor is slightly bigger you'll need some display space ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 No problem Tim, here to help. If you have a bit of spare resin block lying around I'd use that to replace the bullet. Just chop the old one off at the root and CA the new reshaped one on. As for the discrepancy on the fin, just cut the whole tailplane section off, fill and refit......that simple! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey-1980 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Timmas said: That will be some diorama...I hope you do it. I have a 1/72 Vulcan and know how large it is and as the Victor is slightly bigger you'll need some display space ! It will be some time yet...Still have the Canberra to finish first, then the small task of moving home and establishing the newly located workbench..... Oh, then convinicing the ladt of the house that a HUGE inflight diorama is a great idea!! 😕 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) Still bumbling along. I’ve done a bit more on the tailplane, in particular by slimming down the starboard half as suggested by @Martian (thanks for noticing that :-)). I’m still not convinced that the upright is correct but I’ll come back to that and post some pics when I think I've got it right. If I feel I’m up to it, I may do what General Melchett suggests; slice it off and move it. It's simple apparently. Ha, it's easy for him to say that, he knows what he's doing 🤨 Still, I’m inching towards getting the wings on and the fuselage halves together. Before I do, there are a few things to sort out. I’ve added a couple of rods to each side to give the resin intakes extra support. Belt and braces, right? The rods are just some left over galvanised roofing nails that I bought years ago to repair an old outbuilding. I’ve cut the pointed ends off but kept the plastic caps on...they sit against the inside the fuselage… Here’s the resin having a wash and brush up. Something for the weekend sir?… Before glueing the intakes in (I’m going to use two-part epoxy, is that best?) I’ve added the glass into the rounded-out side windows using Glue ’n’ Glaze. It looks quite good I think. I now have to make a decision about the canopy. I’d love to use the photo-etched piece that’s supplied in the Flightpath set because the detail is fantastic, but from what I’ve read about it, especially in Jan Forsgren’s write up here it’s not easy to do. Firstly I’ll have to curve it in two dimensions to get it to look right and there’s no way I can do that as I simply don’t have the skills, nor the equipment. Secondly, there’s an issue with the framing at the front; it should all taper towards the nose but it doesn’t. I can’t remember where I read about that. It might have been somewhere here on Britmodeller… Clearly both it and the kit’s part have their pluses and minuses, but I’ve decided to try and use the kit part first and see what happens. I’ve seen another great build of this at Ted’s Modelworks* here where he used the part, so I thought I’d give it a go. I managed to get rid of a nasty sink mark in the lower front window pane but I now need to work out how I’m going to get the part to fit. I’ll try to fill the gaps with plasticard, but the bigger problem, it seems to me, is that the the canopy is wider than the fuselage. I could sand it down, but that might damage the transparency and, once it’s in situ, I don’t know if I could ever get the shine back. Alternatively, if I squeeze the sides in to make them fit, the central section pushes upwards which affects the alignment at the top. Squeezing the sides will also need some decent pressure and I’m not sure what will hold it long enough for the glue to set, or even if any of the canopy glues I’ll be using will hold it in place well enough.. I had a similar issue with the Airfix TSR2 I built earlier this year and never properly resolved that (I haven't finished it either as I need to add the bare metal framing to the tinted parts( … Anyway, I’ve decided that rather than make the canopy fit the fuselage, I’m going to try the reverse; make the fuselage fit the canopy. The plan is to force the sides slightly apart so that the width is the same as the transparent part. In theory this should work. In practice? Who knows. To do this I’ve inserted a couple of strips of thin card inside the fuselage sides which will get sandwiched between them and the cockpit floor. We’re only talking about a millimetre at the most and I’m using two pieces of 0.4mm card so it should be there or thereabouts. An added advantage to this is that the infill pieces should give something else for the canopy to attach to. A test fit seems to work. Phew. (Note to self here: don’t forget to paint the card pieces black!)… That seems to work. It's still fractionally wide but I ought to be able to sand that small amount down. I need to fill the other gaps and will probably do those with plasticard. I also need to fill in the holes which are intended for the refuelling probe. I've glued a thin strip of clear fruit packaging behind the canopy in the relevant area and dropped some Mr Surfacer into the holes. If I'm careful I'm hoping they'll disappear with careful sanding and a coat of paint. One thing I have noticed is the foremost hole is so far down the front of the canopy that it creeps into what should be a clear section. That's a shame. If only Revell, or Matchbox or whoever had moved it back by a couple of millimetres it would be much better. As it is, I'll just have to introduce a small step in the masking when I get that far and hope it isn't too noticeable. I’ll probably use the kit part for the bomb aimer’s window too although I know that’s going to need packing out as well. Of course, if the bomb aimer’s glass is going in, I’m going to need a bomb aimer to sit behind it, so I’ll use one of the three rear crewmen who were left out of the cockpit… While I’m at the front end, I need to think about the tube that sticks out from the nose. Looking at the reference shot I posted earlier, and the one below (taken from Radlett Reminiscences, the photographer is Graeme Rodgers), by comparing the tube with the two chaps in from of the plane, I reckon the hole in the tube is just about large enough to put your fist in, and the thickness of the tube wall is about 5mm, so I’ll have to find something suitable. I might try to stretch a hollow cotton bud over a flame as I’ve seen David Damek, aka Plasmo do on YouTube. I've tried stretching sprue before, and am hopeless at it, so I'll have to practice. Anyway, that’s where I am right now. The next step is glueing the intakes into the fuselage. For some reason I'm feeling apprehensive about it. They have to be absolutely spot on; a fraction of a degree out at the root will look like a mile at the wingtip. Deep breath... All comments welcome. *I don’t know anything about Ted Taylor apart from the fact that he made some beautiful models. His website hasn’t been updated for some time so I’m assuming he’s no longer modelling. Edited October 18, 2018 by Timmas 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Ted passed away in 2013, sadly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Procopius said: Ted passed away in 2013, sadly. Ah, I wondered if that was the case. Thanks for letting me know 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey-1980 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Fantastic update! Coming along nicely! Have you thought about using some Krystal Klear to fill in the holes for your canopy? it dries transparet if you've not used it before? I'll keep an eye on this when I come to build the Victor. Also, really like your TSR2 & Lightning set up there! 1/72 or 1/48 scale? The TSR2 is still on my bucket list of kits to get hold of Also sad to hear about Ted's passing. Quite often find myself on his website for reference material. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mikey-1980 said: Fantastic update! Coming along nicely! Have you thought about using some Krystal Klear to fill in the holes for your canopy? it dries transparet if you've not used it before? I'll keep an eye on this when I come to build the Victor. Also, really like your TSR2 & Lightning set up there! 1/72 or 1/48 scale? The TSR2 is still on my bucket list of kits to get hold of Also sad to hear about Ted's passing. Quite often find myself on his website for reference material. Thanks Mikey. Progress is slow but I do feel it's moving in the right direction. So far at least! Nothing much is going to happen for the next day or two; we're going to black tie do this evening so there's all sorts of stuff to do beforehand (like take my wife to the hairdressers, take the dog to he kennels etc) and as I may be suffering from the same sort of 'sciatica' that apparently afflicts Jean Claude Junker, there may well be a period of recovery afterwards. I know what you mean about the KK. It's a good idea and it will fill the holes but I don't think that I'll be able to disguise their edges that way. It's also too late now anyway as the Mr Surfacer has dried pretty hard! The TSR2 and Lightning are 1/72. I don't have enough room for the larger scales unfortunately. The TSR2 took ages to do and it really beat me up. I should have kept it and made it once I had more experience and better skills but I was impatient to do it. We live and learn! Edited October 19, 2018 by Timmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey-1980 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Winner Winner!! taking your time will always get the best results, and well worth it in the end. Enjoy the black tie shindig and I hope the sciatica doesnt play up too much? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Quote I now have to make a decision about the canopy. I’d love to use the photo-etched piece that’s supplied in the Flightpath set because the detail is fantastic, but from what I’ve read about it, The problem with the etched part is that it's basically two dimensional. The long window panes that formed the Victor's windscreen were flat plates whereas the upper glazing was curved, in arcs. The problem comes where the flat plates transition into the curved glazing. Bill Clark managed to do a good job on it but only after he's annealed the thing into oblivion...and then you have to fit some appropriate acetate glazing. It's actually easier to use the kit part, sand it thinner from the inside, and then attack it from above to remove the framework, followed by polishing to crystal clarity. I then use either Eduard or New Ware masks for the priming and final paint job, (unfortunately due to the Matchbox canopy being undersized in depth the glazing doesn't quite come down the fuselage sides enough so the masks need a bit of trimming). This was the method I used on my first white B2R. For the B1 I will use an adapted Airfix canopy. This isn't nearly as complicated as it may sound... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 It looks like you are going to have to fill around the canopy prior to sanding. Given that the interior is black, perhaps some black Miliput would be best here. It actually dries a very dark grey and is way less messy than colouring the standard stuff. Martian 👽 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Great work on the Victor so far! I really shouldn't have read this thread as now I feel the need to buy me a Victor (the Airfix one - I had the Matchbox one aeons ago but I feel I need something a bit more up-to-date). And this just after purchasing the Airfix Valiant kit. Ah, V bomber mania, catch it on Britmodeller! Since you have the good General along for the ride, I'm sure everything will go swimmingly. The General is a veritable cornucopia of modellistic information, as well as knowing the best thing to wear to the local Earl's annual fancy dress party. Best Regards, Jason 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Quote The General is a veritable cornucopia of modellistic information, as well as knowing the best thing to wear to the local Earl's annual fancy dress party. Far more important than all this plastic fiddling malarky is knowing what to wear for the right occasion and so this year I'll be mostly wearing an aquamarine regimental tutu, standard issue drill boots and a little fluffy Dayglo Orange off-the-shoulder number by Mental Meg of Bedlam. The local Earl's a man of exquisite taste and refinement, so it's low-key all the way... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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