Tweaking Revell's 1/144 727 kit: vac forming fail

[DMC]

 

 

As I mentioned over on the Civil Aviation page, I've been lurking around airliner builds and threads.  I finally succumbed to temptation and bought Revell's 727 kit.  I've always liked the look of the 727.  That slightly  nose-down stance reminds me of my youth when it was the trend to drop the front end of your car by heating or cutting the coils.  The Revell kit is pretty accurate in shape but is a little heavy on the panel lines and rivets. The cabin windows are also recessed which I gather, from reading reviews, is a little unusual for an airliner kit.  Most it seems are open for clear inserts or non-existent for decals.  Not sure what the thinking was behind the recessed windows, decals and a drop of one of the clear solutions perhaps?

 

Anyway, as I like the look of the available 3-D cabin and flight deck decals, I filled the recesses.   I avoid the use of putty whenever possible and since I had a few strips of .020 X .080 going spare I decided to fill the recesses with chips of styrene.  I made a jig for cutting the chips and applied them to them recesses using a toothpick.  Using a generous drop of cement for each chip I waited a few seconds and then pressed down on the softened  chip with the flat of a steel ruler.  After letting things cure over-night I filed and sanded the chips down flush with the fuselage.  Pleased with the results, a lick of primer will take care of any errors. 

 

The whole process of putting the chips into the recesses. on one side, and after setting up the jig, took about 50 minutes.  Sanding down the front half  another 30.  

 

I've also backed the windshield with a strip of styrene and will fill it with a little Milliput.

 

Photos not so good.  Would have preferred grey plastic but.....

 

Thanks for your interest

 

Dennis 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by DMC
Title change

[DMC]

Previous photo is rubbish so I shot another.  The pencil line on the styrene aids in getting the chips the right way around.  There are 30+ windows to a side on the -100.  Not sure about the -200.  

 

Dennis

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by DMC
Syntax error

[modelman182]

Great start, Dennis. Neat solutions for the windows.

 

Keep it coming, please 🙂

 

Kev

[Challenger350Pilot]

The Revell 727s are challenging kits to get just right. You're on the right path...this looks really good. I really like your approach to filling the windows. What will be its livery when its finished?

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Challenger350Pilot said:

The Revell 727s are challenging kits to get just right. You're on the right path...this looks really good. I really like your approach to filling the windows. What will be its livery when its finished?

Thank you.  Filling the cabin windows that way was easier and less time consuming than I thought they would be.  Not sure about the livery.  The 727 was (if I remember correctly) only the second jet airliner I few on.  Miami, Norfolk, Norfolk, O’Hare, O’Hare, Las  Vegas, San Francisco back in 1969.  Pretty sure at least two were 727s. I particularly remember the one out of Norfolk as the pilot really put the pedal to the metal, so to speak and it felt like we were climbing at a 45 degree angle.  So, livery choice?, almost any US carrier would do as I can’t remember exactly.   Corrections and suggestions welcome. 

 

I do like the Eastern livery in this line-up, however.

 

https://vintageflyerdecals.com/727.html

 

 Dennis

 

[Challenger350Pilot]

20 hours ago, DMC said:

 So, livery choice?, almost any US carrier would do as I can’t remember exactly.   Corrections and suggestions welcome. 

 

I do like the Eastern livery in this line-up, however.

 

https://vintageflyerdecals.com/727.html

 

 Dennis

 

Any of these are really nice. I am partial to the old American "Astrojet" lightning bolt scheme; and the Continental, Piedmont, or old Frontier (if you can find it) would be good too. Maybe you'll just need to find a few 727s, and build them all at the same time!! What a challenge THAT would be......

[DMC]

Yes, plenty of livery choices and one with a NMF finish is tempting.  Must first finish the Macchi and then this one before I get too far ahead of myself.  Too many half completed kits already.  

 

Cheers 

 

Dennis

 

 

[DMC]

So, after fooling around with trying to plunge mould a new cowl ring, and not having much luck, I decided to just go ahead with the kit ring as the oval shape actually doesn't look at all bad.  However, looking aft through the opening the rudder seam is clearly visible.  Something needed in there to block it off.   I tried heating and bending a bit of styrene tubing but that didn't turn out very well, the tubing was a little thick walled anyway.  Next I wrapped .010 styrene around a dowel and heated it with boiling water.  After it cooled I trimmed a length to fit inside the cowl.  I cut one end at an angle and cemented another angled length to it.  Not the smooth curve as in the 1:1 but with a little paint inside you'd not be able to tell.

 

I've filed and sanded all the rivets and panel lines off of the fuselage.  For an old kit (1964) the fit is really very good.  No putty needed at all just a touch of Mr Surfacer 500 here and there around those filled window recesses.  

 

There are decals supplied for the landing lights but as I had a few spare 'Little Car' lenses in 2 and 1.5mm I thought I'd see if might use them in place of the decals.  Despite your not being able to tell because of the blurred photo,  they actually look pretty good.  If I can manage to do a neat job of covering the recess with a slip of clear plastic I'll be happy.

 

I hadn't planned to mess this kit about very much, no dropped flaps ,etc.,  just build it to acquaint myself with airliner modelling.  Can't seem to leave well enough alone on any kit, however.  In my DNA or something. 

 

Anyway, thanks for your interest.

 

Dennis

 

[DMC]

 

Okay, got a little more done during a busy few weeks around the house swopping modelling rooms.  I've a little more elbow room now and the available light lasts much longer for taking photographs.  Everyone's happy now, especially me.

 

Using Milliput, I secured a fishing weight in the nose and then cemented the fuselage haves together.  I also used Milliput to fill in the windshield spaces that I had previously backed with styrene.  What I could have done, however, was just used a little more and pushed it up and out from behind and then just trimmed most of the excess off and sanded down the rest.   For some reason, the Milliput took a couple of days, instead of hours, to completely harden.  I've had it for a couple of years so I guess it degrades over time.

 

The filled recessed cabin windows came out ok except for a couple of 'holidays' here and there that will be easy to fill.

 

The intakes on this kit look a little small in diameter to me.  The rest of the pods look okay with the almost flat upper profile and a bit of belly along the bottom.

 

However, the diameter issue bothered me enough to warrant a little experiment plunge moulding a new pod.   The result turned out ok but I'm wondering whether or not it might be just that little bit too big compared to the kit pod.  The very bottom right hand photo is of the plunged pod next to the Airfix 727 pod, which is a little larger in diameter than the Revell pod.  I have an interesting link on my iPad which I will edit in after I switch over to it in a moment.

 

Down the page a bit on this link there is a photo of a mirror that has been fashioned out of a 727 intake.  A very large mirror indeed.  Even farther down are the measurements of this mirror: 53”h x 49”w x22”d.  Because of the difference in height and width I would guess that it is from a -100, which is oval in shape.  One inch in 1/144 scale is .177 times 53” is around 9.3mm.  But the 53” measurement was probably taken at the base which is larger than the bevelled intake opening.  So maybe the Revell #2 intake at around 7.5mm is a little smaller does it matter that much? Not to me, all this faff is just something I got caught up in and couldn’t shake off.  Nice mirror though.

 

 

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/mirrors/more-mirrors/boeing-727-pratt-witney-jt8d-air-intake-mirrors-circa-1960/id-f_381114/

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

[DMC]

Test photo from my iPad to see if I could get one on from Village Photos.  Highlighting the image URL was not easy.  Bags of problems with my laptop.

 

Dennis 

 

[Dave Swindell]

Dennis,

A word of caution if you're using that photo as a basis for allegedly undersized engine nacelles - that photo is a Super 727 which had the larger engine pods of an MD80 fitted in place of the standard 727 sized 1 & 3 engines.

I may be wrong, but the kit engines don't look too small for a standard 727 to me.

[DMC]

Thanks, Dave, a very timely reply.  As we speak I am trying out new, plunge moulded, pods and cowl ring to replace the kit ones.     I have based the cowl ring diameter on the 727 mirror frame in the link below, which converts to 54”, which does look a little big.  

 

The measurement is probably not based on the cowl ring opening but farther back on the pod.  I had wondered about the apparent differences in the pods on some photos but put it down to telephoto lenses.  I’m new to airliner modelling and have quite a bit to catch up on.  

 

I appreciate your comments.

 

Dennis 

 

https://www.pacific-compagnie.com/en/furnitures/3534-miroir-13-b-727-en-aluminium.html

 

 

[Dave Swindell]

Hi again Dennis

The 138cm/54" diameter from your link is almost certainly the outside diameter of the ring.

 

Most 727's were fitted with Pratt & Whitney JT8D-7 engines or derivatives with a fan diameter of 39.9" (7.04mm in 1/144 scale)

This is the maximum (front) fan diameter = nacelle inlet hole size

The Airfix kit is spot on for this, Minicraft is small at 6.5mm, but the nacelle inlet wall is much thicker, so the inlets can be opened out.

 

Super 27 727's had the uprated JT8D-200 series engines on the outside 1 & 3 engines with a fan diameter of 49.2" (8.68mm in 1/144 scale) The Minicraft MD80 engines match this and can be used to convert a 727 to a Super 27 (the rest of the MD80 kit can be fitted with even larger after market engines to make an MD90)

 

 I don't have the Revell kit but you measure the intake at 7.5mm, so that's a reasonable ball park figure for the standard 727 engines.

 

It's up to you now, either choose an airline livery and select engine size to match, or choose your engine size and find an airline livery with those engines.

 

Either way your model is progressing very well.

 

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Hi again Dennis

Hi Dave,

First, I really appreciate your input.  I have compared (again) the Revell pod against two sets of plans from the Internet that I’ve correctly sized and I have to agree with you that they are pretty close in all dimensions.  The pod diameter, just aft of the opening, measures 8mm, plus or minus, so I’m staying with the kit pods. 

 

My livery is the Eastern Delivery scheme which I purchased from Vintage Flyers in the US.  A very nice set with 3-d windows, colour scheme, paint masks and so on.  

 

The only change to the kit pods kit pods will be the addition of replacement rings shaped and cut from styrene tubing and some reshaping of the rear thrusters (?). 

 

I’ll post some photos after I’ve made a little more progress. 

 

Thanks again, saved me a bit of valuable time with that information.

 

Dennis

 

 

[DMC]

Okay, first impressions were that the Revell pods were a little on the lean side.  I carved new moulds and plunged a replacement set.  @Dave Swindell, above, pointed out that a picture I had posted, above, was of a 727-Super and the engine and pods were larger  and he thought the kit pods looked about right. He also supplied some measurements to back up his thoughts.  So, after having another look at the pods, and after comparing them again with plans I had downloaded, I decided to use the kit pods after all instead of faffing around with plunge moulded replacements. 

 

I did, however, think that they were a little plain looking and felt that with a little work I might be able to improve on them.  I moulded a replacement exhaust cone and punched out a couple of discs to fit on and in the cone.  I painted the separate pieces  using Vallejo paints and Halfords’ Appliances White and then cemented them together with dabs of superglue.   Something of an improvement over the kit version, I think, and now that I’ve done one I’m hoping I can improve on it for the #3 engine.

 

Cheers, and thanks for your interest.

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

  

[DMC]

After taking a hard look at what I’d done with the #1 and #3 pods I decided I didn’t like the results.  The cowl ring and exhaust cone didn’t match up to the kit part very well.  I think the only way, for me anyway, to get a good match is to tack the pieces together and profile them as one unit.  Also, I didn’t attempt to try and do anything about the thrust reversers and that began to wear on me a bit. And, I’m painting the pod all white instead of leaving the front bit natural metal as per decal instructions.  No pics yet but that’s where I’m at as we speak.

 

Couldn’t resist doing a few things to the Airfix kit so started filling in the cabin windows.  I see that most airliner modellers use putty when filling in the windows but I usually avoid it if I can help it and prefer to use plastic if at all possible.  I cemented a styrene strip inside the fuselage and then filled the openings with .060 x .100 stock with the edges rounded off with a blade.  The offset nail clippers worked well in clipping off the inserts close to the fuselage and, as in the Revell kit, a little Mr Surfacer will deal with any voids that are left. 

 

Much has has been written criticising the nose profile of the Airfix kit, so I traced the nose profile from a set of plans on a piece of styrene, cut it out, and tacked that to the kit nose.  There appears to be enough thickness there to reshape the kit nose to match the plan cutout.  We’ll see.

 

Second photo is of the, early, Airfix -100 in AA livery.  Shorter fuselage of course complete with doors and hatch openings and no crease line indicated at all.   I think the fuselages is a little slim in depth also.  Pleased to have it, however.

 

Third photo is of the Vintage Flyer set I bought for the -100.  A nice set, I think.  Comes wth 3-D widows a masks to aid in painting.  I picked up a set of AA 3-D windows at Telford so I am well supplied with widow decals.

 

Finale photo is of all the 727 kit decals.   The Revell decals look pretty good except for the thrust reversers which are way to big.

 

Thanks for your interest.  As usual, all advice and suggestions gratefully appreciated.

 

Dennis

 

(Something about the 727 that appeals to me.  I only tweaked after I bought the Revell kit that 727 is the same month and day of my birthday.  Must be a sign.)

 

 

 

 

 

[ROBOT]

Inspiring build, i gave up on my 727 until i find a way to replace the engines without scratchbuilding new ones....that is buying resin aftermarket ones....Keep on with that build, very motivating ! 

olli

[DMC]

14 hours ago, ROBOT said:

Inspiring build, i gave up on my 727 until i find a way to replace the engines without scratchbuilding new ones....that is buying resin aftermarket ones....Keep on with that build, very motivating ! 

olli

Thanks, Olli.  Not sure if these (link) are still available but they look pretty good.  I’m afraid I don’t have a very good track record when it comes to finishing builds but there’s not a lot left to do on this one so maybe....

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/948444-contrails-models-cm44-727fedx-boeing-727-fedex-engines

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

[Terry1954]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Thanks, Olli.  Not sure if these (link) are still available but they look pretty good.  I’m afraid I don’t have a very good track record when it comes to finishing builds but there’s not a lot left to do on this one so maybe....

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/948444-contrails-models-cm44-727fedx-boeing-727-fedex-engines

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

I agree with Olli, this is a very inspiring build, and you are doing some neat improvements here, love it. Will follow with interest.

 

Terry

[rob Lyttle]

Hi Dennis. Great stuff so far!

You just love a wee modification or two...!

 

I had those Revell recessed windows on the old DC 7C kit. The decal sheet had individual grey panels for each one.

Of course, the whole sheet was a washout.

I just blobbed each recess with PVA over paint.

Your 3Dsheets look like they're going to do the job in style.

Looking good

[ROBOT]

Hello DMC, 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/948444-contrails-models-cm44-727fedx-boeing-727-fedex-engines

Thanks for the link,  I definitely will try to get my hands on  these  !

olli

[ROBOT]

that is my electrostatic  robot  hands of course !    

[DMC]

5 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

I agree with Olli, this is a very inspiring build

Thanks, Terry, encouraging words.

 

 Hi @rob Lyttle, just a wee bit it would seem.  It’s a curse, actually.  I thought by transitioning over to 1/144 airliners I’d rid my self of the compulsion to get hung up on detailing everything in sight but it’s beginning to look like deja vu all over again.  I’m trying to keep a lid on it but seems as though there’s always something that can be ‘corrected”.

 

 

And speaking of windows: the Airfix -100 kit comes with a little punch that you are instructed to use to punch out the decals to enable the clear window inserts to show through.  In other words, paint each fuselage half before cementing together, apply the decals, punch out the openings, cement the windows in place and then cement the halves together.  I don’t think so.  More later.

 

Dennis 

 

 

 

 

 

[rob Lyttle]

27 minutes ago, DMC said:

apply the decals, punch out the openings, cement the windows in place and then cement the halves together. 

That's not my reading of the method.

Build the fuselage as usual, and the whole airframe if you want.

Then decorate and apply the decals.

THEN clear the windows and fill with the clear stuff of choice.

 

Your interpretation would indeed be a little.... awkward!

[rob Lyttle]

As per the Caravelle...

 

 

Decent wood glue PVA can fill across this size of hole with no problem.

 

Upon reading again...

You talking about plastic clear parts for fitting inside...?!?

Hmmm.. Now that IS a situation!

Edited December 10, 2018 by rob Lyttle
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