Painting technique experimentation - Tamiya 1/48 F4U-1A Corsair paint mule

[colin]

Never had much luck with Tamiya/Gunze even when thinned with X-20A, the bite onto whats under it just seems too good. But that was hairspray, never tried the other stuff as I thought it was the same stuff but with a hell of a % up cost

[tank152]

You're probably applying you paint to wet and so that is why it's eating into your hairspray. You need to only mist it on, less is more.

Funnily enough, the the method you'd suggested earlier in the thread is one of the methods of simulating wear that Mike Rinaldi uses in some of his Tankart books although he uses a lacquer thinner over acrylics. 

 

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Indeed I have much experimentation to do, but as a first go it seems to have legs.

 

Unfortunately Tamiya and Gunze don't really help me so I'm experimenting with enamel - hopefully obviously!

[tank152]

5 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Unfortunately Tamiya and Gunze don't really help me so I'm experimenting with enamel - hopefully obviously!

Ah yes, got ya, obviously! 😉

I've just had a quick look through one of my Tankart books, you'll be pleased to hear that Mike Rinaldi, the author, does say enamels  will work, so stick at it, just remember to mist your paint on rather than use a wet coat.

I don't think there os a better way out there for replcating chips and worn paint than this method. 

I presume you know its best to seal everything afterwards with a coat of clear, and also don't mask over areas you've applied your hairspray.

Tim.

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

7 hours ago, tank152 said:

Ah yes, got ya, obviously! 😉

I've just had a quick look through one of my Tankart books, you'll be pleased to hear that Mike Rinaldi, the author, does say enamels  will work, so stick at it, just remember to mist your paint on rather than use a wet coat.

I don't think there os a better way out there for replcating chips and worn paint than this method. 

I presume you know its best to seal everything afterwards with a coat of clear, and also don't mask over areas you've applied your hairspray.

Tim.

 

Thanks Tim,

 

I shall stick with in and figure this out

 

Best regards,

 

Jamie 

[Tempestwulf]

Glad you were able to use enamels for the hairspray technique, most recommend acrylics to use. I'd be interested to see if you could use Mr Color Lacquers for it, though I have my doubts as they're pretty concrete. Will have to try it myself on a mule.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

4 hours ago, Tempestwulf said:

I'd be interested to see if you could use Mr Color Lacquers for it, though I have my doubts as they're pretty concrete. 

I think so i would just double down or even triple down on the hairspray. Several hours between each coat. Then lightly mist the paint over it until you get your color where you want it. Clean your A/B, and then using cotton buds, tamiya paint sticks, tooth brush, toothpicks, & water/thinner go for it. I dont think the paint will have time to etch through the hairspray before you attack it. Don't let it sit for more than 20-30 minutes or that might start to happen. Thats the trick, its all timing. To long a time gap and the technique doesn't work. Hope it helps ? 

 

Dennis

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 10/10/2018 at 2:07 AM, Avgas said:

I tried it twice - once from the can and once decanted and both times it melted the acrylic base.

Sorry that happened to you ? It sounds like a chemical reaction between the hairspray you used and the particular acrylic paint. I personally have done this with old school Testor enamels, hardware rattlecan enamels, modelmaster enamels, vallejo acrylics and now with Tamiya acrylics in my current hurricane build. So i know it works on various types of paint.

     If you decide to do this again maybe i would try a different brand of hairspray. That and check the ingredient lists of the hairsprays Vs. your paints of choice for whichever project. See if there are any possible reactions. 

 

Dennis

[tank152]

10 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I think so i would just double down or even triple down on the hairspray. 

 

Dennis

Sorry,  but personally I think that is bad advice. If you apply to much hairspray your paint with come away in big chunks and in a uncontroled manner. You only need 2 coats max of hairspray or chipping fluid. Like I said in my earlier post you need to mist your paint on a don"t apply a thick coat of paint.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 minutes ago, tank152 said:

Sorry but that is bad advice.

 

I disagree as I've done it and not had that happen. However i digress, 1st as this isn't my thread.  Second I'm just offering my opinions and thoughts based on what has worked for me. 

[tank152]

7 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

 

Second I'm just offering my opinions and thoughts based on what has worked for me. 

Of course you are,  i,'m just offering mine!

It's up to the folk that are trying out the method to work out the best way.

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Telford succeeded again in utterly destroying any motivation to make models for a while, but I have been trying to force myself to do a little bit in the last week or two.

 

I have (not worthy of threads) been working on a ship:

 

 

... and a pair of Spitfires which I am very much displeased with:

 

 

I was discussing with Stew Dapple this past few days whilst we worked away that I have been most dissatisfied with everything except two things I've made this year, so much so that I perceive I am getting worse rather than better. Also, I'm experimenting too much and trying too many new things which is fine for the average person with one job and, relatively speaking, lots of free time and completing a model a month or more. When you're not in that position one can't really afford all the failures I've had this year since it constitutes most of what has been built in the year!

 

So, I have returned to this Corsair but won't be doing much more experimentation with it. I have discovered (on the desert Spitfire above) that hairspray still serves as a barrier with enamel for a long time. Unfortunately it also reduces the durability of the paint to the exceptionally poor robustness associated with water based acrylics - the paint type I hate that much that spurred me to buy Colourcoats. This means that paint can rub off leading and trailing edges of wings just handling the model, but it does offer the cute ability to paint on thinners with any size brush one likes and wipe away the paint to reveal the undercoat well after the paint has cured. That's a useful piece of knowledge, but for my modelling subjects and levels of weathering, I think hairspray chipping is something that's nice to know about but I doubt I will use all that fervently in future.

 

If anyone is still interested in a generic Tamiya Corsair with nothing else to make it a remarkable thread to follow, I will update this to complete things. I'm getting disappointed with the number of unfinished WIP threads I have!

 

The model was assembled. This is the first time I have managed to get the wings on a Tamiya Corsair with an acceptable join where the folding panels meet the centre section. This needed a bit of a twist when fitting to ensure that little tongue on the leading edge upper surface was rotated down into position. Simply sliding the wings on as intended results in that little bit getting popped inwards and leaving a nasty issue to deal with.

 

 

I had the stupid notion to droop the elevators. This took longer than assembling the rest of the model, due mostly to my snapping off then pinging away the servo tab on the port elevator, and then a stray saw blade on one of the cuts which required a sliver of plasticard to correct my mistake. As servo tabs are mechanically rigged to move opposite to the control surface, they had to be raised if the elevators were drooped. That in turn meant the pushrods had to be cut away and replaced with stretched sprue after repositioning.

 

 

Lacking the Ultracast seat I wanted (Ultracast are winding back their business and no longer supply to trade, very sadly as I love their stuff) I added PE seatbelts from an SBD Dauntless set.

 

 

I bought an Eduard Hellcat from @Duncan B's BlackMike Models and needed to order some Master gun barrels for it. To make up the minimum order value I decided to try a Yahu instrument panel for the Corsair. It's quite nice, although like many aftermarket products if we used everything available on every model it would become very expensive indeed. I don't regret this though - it does look good and I certainly lack time to sit mincing about trying to do this with a cocktail stick or whatever:

 

 

I decided, unlike my usual models, to fit the bomb underneath, but the kit bomb is a bit crude:

 

I ordered a Brengun replacement today. I also made the mistake of doubting Tamiya's bomb rack and looking up a photograph of the real thing. This is going to need some work:

 

 

 

I built the engine pretty much OOB but added HT leads from 5amp fuse wire

 

 

The canopy was masked:

 

 

... and some ANA601 Insignia White has been sprayed on and is now drying a bit.

 

 

Thanks for looking in!

 

 

 

[Stew Dapple]

Good to see your progress on the Corsair mate  

 

It was good to spend a bit of time at the factory too, thanks  

 

I think the Spitfires are going to be fine, they are looking better than when I saw them and they were looking good then, to anyone except a perfectionist like yourself perhaps  - press on with them and I'm sure once they are done you will find yourself in agreement with me.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

You're too kind Stew! I look forward to seeing some progress of yours soon too I trust.

 

I may just go ahead and put the decals on the Malta Spit. If it's a bomb scare of a model when finished then it's only an Airfix Spit bought half price as you know!

 

I have just finished a very nice cajun chicken made with chicken thighs - top tip: if you are happy to skin them and remove meat from bone then it's not only half the price of breast fillet but actually more flavourful too...

 

That allowed me much more time than I usually wait between colours for the ANA601 to dry, and I used two strips of masking tape for the wing fold and free handed the rest using ANA608 Intermediate Blue.

 

 

I'm going downstairs now to watch the next installment of Lego Jurassic Park starring Gill on the XBox, which is a facade for eating some sweets until that paint dries. I hope to get a rather faded ANA607 Non-specular Sea Blue on tonight.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I faded the ANA607 by blending it with ANA608. I fear this might look a bit "Spanish" so am going to leave it to dry overnight and assess in daylight. If I don't like it, I will blend it again using a neutral grey and respray it.

 

[Duncan B]

My experience of experimentation also caused my modelling to take a huge step backwards. I now think that if I find a technique or product that works for me then I should stick with it. There are more than one way to do any job so the one that is most comfortable is the one to stick to.

 

The Tamiya Corsair looks very nice. I will be making a Corsair at some point soon as I am planning on that being the last of my US Navy builds. I've still got a few on the list to do before I get to that though as I want to cover all the colour scheme changes from Yellow Wings through to the overall GSB.

 

Duncan B

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

It's 57 degrees and 30 minutes North here, it's the 29th of December and it's overcast outside, so this is about as good as the lighting is going to get. It does lack the warmth that comes with summer sunshine though and what I think is necessary for a Pacific "tricolor" scheme to really come to life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I might just stick with the topsides shade I mixed. It doesn't look so bright / saturated blue in daylight. I will go for the decals next and think about how best to tone them back a bit to suit.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Before decals I sprayed on the wing walkways rather than use decals, partly because of the double curvatures and partly because pure black will not look good here.

 

 

I also remembered to mask and spray the Yellow Zinc Chromate:

 

 

[Col.]

The Corsair looks good to me. As does the ship (which one is that by the way?) and both Spitfires; AX*N at least will be a good basis for plenty of weathering should you wish. As will the Malta (?) based example.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

6 hours ago, Col. said:

The Corsair looks good to me. As does the ship (which one is that by the way?) and both Spitfires; AX*N at least will be a good basis for plenty of weathering should you wish. As will the Malta (?) based example.

Hi Col, thanks for looking in! The ship is HMS Repulse with mods/corrections to make it 1941 fit as intended by the kit (which is actually correctish for immediately pre-war). Would you believe I have guessed at paints on it?!?!? I had originally painted the hull before I started on the research project and did what I was told, painting it 507C and black. I didn't quite believe the black so I actually used ACRN17 RAF Night, and the light tone was the Synder & Short matched 507C. As part of the project though I encountered a letter written by Captain Tennant (of Repulse) discussing the camouflage and its principles, and he described the paints he'd used on Repulse as "a very dark grey" and "a grey between Light Grey and Dark Grey" where Light Grey was the common service name for 507C and Dark Grey was the common service name for the shade used by the Home Fleet. This told me two things; firstly, it was yet more evidence that Alan Raven's "AP 507B Medium Grey" didn't exist - if it did exist when would a well clued-up capital ship CO describe something that should be about it by referring to something lighter and darker rather than comparing to the Medium Grey. Secondly, it told me that the lighter tone wasn't 507C. In addition, my research put meaningful objective numbers to the colours and the 507C was too light even for 507C. The hull sat on the shelf of doom for a while until very recently when I chose a colour I liked! The lightest tone here is the Snyder & Short 507C which is too light at 52% LRV. The tin on the far left is the corrected 507C at 45% LRV and which is the absolute lightest the lightest paint on Repulse could possibly be. On the far right is the corrected 507A "Dark Grey", the absolute darkest the darkest paint on Repulse could possibly be. The second from the right is Alan Raven/Snyder & Short "AP 507B Medium Grey" which measures at 20% LRV, and the second on the left is the aviation modellers' friend Medium Sea Grey. I chose to use Medium Sea Grey on the ship as it looks good compared to surviving photographic evidence - it's a bit darker than 507C at about 28% LRV.

 

 

Anyhoo - Corsairs. Today I mostly applied decals which despite there not being many was a very long and slow process. They were extremely reluctant to slide from the backing paper and I had to leave them immersed in the water for a good 5 minutes each rather than my usual quick soak then set on the bench to finish the job. I have most of the propeller painted in the mean time, and I had time between decals soaking to glue the flaps on having painted the exposed end ribs in YZC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apologies for the poor photo quality again. It does make the model look better! (it's dark, and the first thing to go on my camera in low light is the resolution)

 

Two more of the office:

 

 

 

 

[Cookenbacher]

Oooh, that's looking great Jamie.

[Stew Dapple]

What Cookie said. That freehand work is superb too  

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

3 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

Oooh, that's looking great Jamie.

 

2 hours ago, Stew Dapple said:

What Cookie said. That freehand work is superb too  

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

Thanks gents

 

I applied the Hamilton Standard logos to the propeller this morning then, sans children and somewhat fearful of another morose day doing close to nowt we jumped into the car and took a day trip to Edinburgh. We used the new £745M bypass around Aberdeen - the first big road built here since WW2 I think? I was treated to these:

 

...and Sovereign's bank card bought a new compressor. We'd been using mine for company work (i.e. all the lid spraying) for months since the other compressor blew up earlier in the year when Stew was here helping previously. I'd just been saying to Stew last week that I felt quite vulnerable only having one compressor and frankly constantly moving it between the Sovereign lid-spraying shed and my personal modelling area was getting rather tiresome.

 

Since getting home I have painted the tyres on the Ultracast wheels and will mask those for spraying the hubs and u/c legs.

[CedB]

Just caught up Jamie and that Corsair is looking splendid  

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Brush dodging lesson of the day: