ReccePhreak Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Title pretty much says it all. Did the Finnish AF fly any recce (Aufklarer) Bf109Gs during (or after) WW2? If so, are there any decals available for them (Or photos/profiles)? I know the Finns liked to do recce mods of aircraft that they acquired, so it may be a local mod. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Hi Larry I know we have a few Finnish members here, but if you don't get a response, ask the Finnish Airforce Museum, http://airforcemuseum.fi/contact-information/ they have always been very helpful when I have asked questions HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) Larry, Interesting query that got my curiosity up- I pulled my copy of Finnish Fighter Colors, 1939-45, volume 2, and I found the following information that might be of use until one of our experts on the subject lends their expertise. According to the text, the Finns received two Bf-109G-8's, which were dedicated recce versions of the G-6. They were serialled MT-462, and MT-483, with 462 being SOC in October, 1952 and 483 in December, 1952. There were no photos of either a/c in the book, but a color profile of MT-465, the closest one in serial number I could find was finished in RLM74/75/76 and had a yellow fuselage band, yellow undersurface wingtips, and a yellow cowling band that began halfway down the nose and extended aft to the rear edge of the exhaust stack fairing. I have no idea if either of the G-8's carried the same scheme, but probably so, with the possible exception of the size/location of the cowling and fuselage yellow bands. Best I can do with the references I have- hope this helps! Either one would make a neat modeling subject of a variant that's seldom done in any scale! You didn't indicate a scale, but I think AZ Models did a G-8 in 1/72, Fujimi did a G-8 in 1/48, and Revell/Germany did a G-8 in 1/32...dunno if any of the 1/48 Eduard Bf-109G kits have the parts to do a G-8- sorry! Mike PS- I think the only changes from the G-6 would be some sort of camera control panel in the cockpit and two staggered square camera windows under the fuselage aft of the wings. Edited October 8, 2018 by 72modeler added more text 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Troy Smith said: Hi Larry I know we have a few Finnish members here, but if you don't get a response, ask the Finnish Airforce Museum, http://airforcemuseum.fi/contact-information/ they have always been very helpful when I have asked questions HTH Thanks Troy, I will try that. Larry 9 hours ago, 72modeler said: Larry, Interesting query that got my curiosity up- I pulled my copy of Finnish Fighter Colors, 1939-45, volume 2, and I found the following information that might be of use until one of our experts on the subject lends their expertise. According to the text, the Finns received two Bf-109G-8's, which were dedicated recce versions of the G-6. They were serialled MT-462, and MT-483, with 462 being SOC in October, 1952 and 483 in December, 1952. There were no photos of either a/c in the book, but a color profile of MT-465, the closest one in serial number I could find was finished in RLM74/75/76 and had a yellow fuselage band, yellow undersurface wingtips, and a yellow cowling band that began halfway down the nose and extended aft to the rear edge of the exhaust stack fairing. (I have no idea if either of the G-8's carried the same scheme, but probably so, with the possible exception of the size/location of the cowling and fuselage yellow bands. Best I can do with the references I have- hope this helps! Either one would make a neat modeling subject of a variant that's seldom done in any scale! You didn't indicate a scale, but I think AZ Models did a G-8 in 1/72, Fujimi did a G-8 in 1/48, and Revell/Germany did a G-8 in 1/32...dunno if any of the 1/48 Eduard Bf-109G kits have the parts to do a G-8- sorry! Mike PS- I think the only changes from the G-6 would be some sort of camera control panel in the cockpit and two staggered square camera windows under the fuselage aft of the wings. Mike, That is GREAT info!! I have two of the Fujimi 1/48 Bf109G-8 kits, but I planned to do it in 1/32 scale, and have a few of the Quickboost recce camera fairings. But if the G-8 only used the 2 smaller cameras farther aft, they will be fairly easy to add. Now to find some suitable 1/32 Finnish Bf109 decals. Larry Edited October 9, 2018 by ReccePhreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) Larry, Did you know about this post? Mike Edited October 8, 2018 by 72modeler corrected link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, 72modeler said: Larry, Did you know about this post? Mike https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235044656-did-the-finnish-af-fly-recce-bf109gs/&tab=comments#comment-3158031 Mike, I may be wrong, but isn't that this very post? Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, ReccePhreak said: Mike, I may be wrong, but isn't that this very post? Larry my mistake! I went back and added the correct link to the BM post (Computers are not my friend sometimes!) See if that one works. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Hello Larry & Co., MT-462 was indeed a recce version (bf-109 G-8/R5, Werke Nummer 200041). R5 means that MT-462 had a different radio equipment than standard aircraft. There is at least one photo of her showing Warrant Officer Nils Katajainen climbing aboard. According to a fellow Finnish modeller the camera ports were covered with aluminium plates. The whole story of these "specials" is covered in "Suomen ilmailuhistoriallinen lehti 1/2001" (Finnish Aviation History Magazine 1/2001) including three view drawings by Pentti Manninen. At least Finnish Aviation Museum at Vantaa has that magazine in their library. Cheers, Antti 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I guess you have seen this photo already: https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/FAF/pages/Messerschmitt-Bf-109G8-FAF-3.HLeLv24-MT-462-WNr-200041-Finland-30th-Jun-1944-01.html It looks like a war time censor has "brushed over" the Stammkennzeiche. Cheers, Antti 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Antti_K said: Hello Larry & Co., MT-462 was indeed a recce version (bf-109 G-8/R5, Werke Nummer 200041). R5 means that MT-462 had a different radio equipment than standard aircraft. There is at least one photo of her showing Warrant Officer Nils Katajainen climbing aboard. According to a fellow Finnish modeller the camera ports were covered with aluminium plates. The whole story of these "specials" is covered in "Suomen ilmailuhistoriallinen lehti 1/2001" (Finnish Aviation History Magazine 1/2001) including three view drawings by Pentti Manninen. At least Finnish Aviation Museum at Vantaa has that magazine in their library. Cheers, Antti Thanks, Antti- I was hoping you would see his question and have more information! Regards! Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larumivi1951 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Here is a picture of MT-483: Rudolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 3 hours ago, 72modeler said: my mistake! I went back and added the correct link to the BM post (Computers are not my friend sometimes!) See if that one works. Mike Mike, Thanks, that was an interesting post. Too bad most of the photos were deleted by "Photosuckit". Also, I can't access the Flickr photo, "Not Authorized". Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Inscale72 had/have decals for various Finnish types including several sheets for 109s (also extending to the G-8). Not much help if you're doing 32nd, but IIRC those sheets were very well received when they were released, so possibly the artwork could help you making your own ? I could've sworn they also had a range of Inscale48 but as the big data hoover doesn't reveal any hits I must've dreamt this... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britman Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Interesting how the wing roundels overlap on the ailerons. Pictures are great arn't they? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Good point Keith! Especially if we look at the painting instructions Ilmavoimien Esikunta (the Finnish Air Force HQ) issued; they state that the national insignia should not overlap on the aileron. When I'm thinking other photos of Finnish bf-109s this was however rather common practice. Cheers, Antti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kari Lumppio Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) Hello! MT-462 and -483 were of G-8 subtype but were used as fighters. No cameras were installed. IIRC in old Finnish magazine Suomen Siivet veteran mechanic of one (MT-483?) was surprised to learn a lot later (70's) that "his" Bf 109 had been reconnaissance variant. By the way. MT-462 did not get Finnish markings before it was damaged in Summer 1944. It was repaired and flew post-war only with the cocade Finnish AF markings. War time it flew only with German marking (and temporary MT-462 scribble)? I did research the Bf 109 remarking in Summer 1944 somewhat awhile ago. My personal hunch is that they pondered returning the G-8 subtypes, at least MT-462 back to Germany. The situation did not allow that, I think. All other Bf 109s from the same delivery batch were painted with Finnish markings on the day of arrival. Cheers, Kari Edited October 9, 2018 by Kari Lumppio 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 A lot of good replies here. The fact that MT-462 & MT-483 did not fly in the recce role in Finland is a little depressing to me, but I will still build my model with the camera ports visible. Because of the decals I just ordered from Hannants, MT-462 will be the easiest to do, unless I can source a couple of 3's and 8's elsewhere. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturmovik Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234979295-finnish-ilmavoimat-messerschmitt-bf109g-8/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Sturmovik said: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234979295-finnish-ilmavoimat-messerschmitt-bf109g-8/ Thanks for that link. Too bad many of the pictures are no longer available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturmovik Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Sorry for sending you the useless link, I was looking at it with my phone. I´ll try to look for more Finnish G-8 photos, they may appear in the strangest of places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vppelt68 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 No, Finnish Air Force did not use Bf 109 recce fighters. Yes, Finnish Air Force did constant fighter recce with regular Bf 109:s during the summer of 1944. It was the only aircraft fast and agile enough to survive in such a hostile airspace. The reconnaissance was done by pilots' visual observations and results were marked on a map on their laps. There are several breath taking memoires by some of the pilots that were assigned to these missions, available in Finnish of course . Ltn Olavi Puro decribes one such mission he flew with Ltn Jorma Saarinen (KIA 18.7.1944): they flew a wide circle over the sea thus avoiding the battlefront over the Isthmus, all the time gaining altitude, until they reached northern suburbs of Leningrad. There they turned northwest, heading over their main reconnaissance object, the main road between Leningrad and the current breakthrough spot around the Mustamäki railway station. The pair started a gently sloping dive to reach maximum speed while descending to low level to do the actual recce, counting numerous columns along the road and a strong armoured force at Mustamäki. The air was thick with enemy aircraft, so much so that they failed to recognize or engage the Finns in time. But the pair of pilots was horrified of that experience! That was one of them, that I wrote out of memory; I may have remembered something incorrectly, sorry! Maybe these three pics were the ones gone bad in the previous thread? SA-kuva #155460. "Vääpeli Katajainen taking off on a MT 109 G.6-plane". Mistakes in plane type not by me SA-kuva #157362 "Messerschmitt- fighters taking off on a mission. June-July 1944". 2 July, actually. SA-kuva #157363. Same caption as above. MT-462, a G-8/R5, in the middle with German markings. Best regards, V-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vppelt68 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 ...and you can´t beat these for the decals: http://kuivalainen.mycashflow.fi/product/12019/messerschmitt-bf-109g-6-suomi-132 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 3 hours ago, vppelt68 said: ...and you can´t beat these for the decals: http://kuivalainen.mycashflow.fi/product/12019/messerschmitt-bf-109g-6-suomi-132 That's the sheet I just ordered from Hannants. With the available numbers, I can do MT-462, but not MT-483. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vppelt68 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 You´d also lack the unique battery related data written on port fuselage of MT-483 so the numbers wouldn´t be the only thing lacking. You can see some of that in the pic in post #11. You plan to do the -462 in postwar look? V-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 10 hours ago, vppelt68 said: ...and you can´t beat these for the decals: http://kuivalainen.mycashflow.fi/product/12019/messerschmitt-bf-109g-6-suomi-132 So my Inscale lead was not completely cold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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