Unarmed B-17 photos??

[epozar]

Reading various books about the B-17s, I got the impression that machine guns were removed between operations for cleaning, maintenance etc.
Yet I cannot remember seeing a single photo showing "unarmed" B-17!! Is it because such airplane is "less attractive" for the eye or there is some other reason?
Of course the same applies for other similar aircraft: B-24, B-25, B-26...

[Work In Progress]

[Morlock]

Most of these appear to be unarmed. 

https://www.google.com.au/search?rlz=1C1CHMO_enAU522AU531&tbm=isch&q=unarmed+b-17&chips=q:unarmed+b+17,online_chips:flying+fortress&usg=AI4_-kTgfIPnEuGyx5axSKkGVms6zng7YQ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwib38DIi-XdAhWaZt4KHdgQBQgQ4lYIJigA&biw=1366&bih=662&dpr=1

 

[Work In Progress]

Less flippantly, in the case of daily missions being flown with guns installed, daily cleaning was definitely necessary and mandated, in part because .30-06 ammunition didn't become reformulated to make the residues non-corrosive until some time in the 1950s. So the question is what they did with the guns immediately after cleaning them - were they kept indoors until wanted, or in some cases re-mounted? The answer probably varies according to the gun position and may well also vary according to local practice.

 

There's a copy of some standard operating procedures for aerial gunners here:

http://www.303rdbg.com/sop-gunners.html

--- but those are for one BG, not for the whole of the *th. So it's unit-level doctrine in specific detail, but likely to reflect broad common themes across the larger force.

 

Each gunner was responsible for cleaning his own gun or guns, in the case of the typical daytime missions -

"The guns will be cleaned not later than the evening of the day on which they are fired. Never, under any circumstances, permit a gun to be set without cleaning it after it has been fired."

Note also that unfired guns must be re-lubricated every 48 hours at most, and unfired guns must be test-fired every third mission.

Some guns are easily stowed out of sight and out of the weather inside the aeroplane, e.g. the waist guns and those in flexible nose mounts, but I dont know if that's what happened or whether they were taken out to the aircraft as part of daily mission preparations. It doesn't make clear whether the mid-upper and tail turret guns were removed from the turrets until pre-flight inspection, but there is a clear implication of chin turret guns being left in the turret between missions, because there's a mandatory position for parking them.

As for people taking photos: well, if you're prepping for, departing for, on, or freshly returned from a mission, then those are the times when people are hanging around taking photos, especially since almost all were either for some official or press purpose (so you wants pics that look as warlike as possible) or taken by crew members themselves, usually on or in immediate proximity to some sort of mission (ditto).

Edited October 1, 2018 by Work In Progress

[noelh]

Towards the end of the war the 94th Bomber Group removed the ball and chin turrets to improve performance but they retained the other guns. I know a picture of one undergoing maintenance and it has all the remaining guns. 

The only pictures I've seen of clearly unarmed B17s are at Kingsman in the desert post war.

[Sonoran]

Think about it:

 

Q:  When were B-17 missions flown?

 

A:  During daylight hours.

 

So when did maintenance crews perform maintenance?  How many photos have you seen of B-17s taken at night?  Not many.  

[silberpferd]

10 hours ago, epozar said:

Reading various books about the B-17s, I got the impression that machine guns were removed between operations for cleaning, maintenance etc.
Yet I cannot remember seeing a single photo showing "unarmed" B-17!! Is it because such airplane is "less attractive" for the eye or there is some other reason?
Of course the same applies for other similar aircraft: B-24, B-25, B-26...

In fact, they just removed the barrel and attached mechanism

 

 

so the cooling jacket and mechanism housing is still present on the plane

 

 

see at 13:41 on this video

 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by silberpferd
incomplete messgae

[Ratch]

The brightly coloured formation B-17s were unarmed.

http://photos.384thbombgroup.com/picture.php?/20925

 

[Work In Progress]

1 hour ago, silberpferd said:

In fact, they just removed the barrel and attached mechanism

so the cooling jacket and mechanism housing is still present on the plane

 

 

 

Really helpful: a good find

[Finn]

Here is one with no belly turret:

 

 

caption says March 1942 but it was stateside. Some guns were easier to take out than others plus to keep the weight and balance of the a/c correct those in turrets were left in for the most part.

 

Jari

[Max Headroom]

The RCAF operated a handful of second hand E’s and F’s for mail runs. They were unarmed.

 

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/469/Letters-From-Home-The-B-17-in-the-RCAF.aspx

 

Trevor

[epozar]

2 hours ago, silberpferd said:

In fact, they just removed the barrel and attached mechanism

 

 

so the cooling jacket and mechanism housing is still present on the plane

 

 

see at 13:41 on this video

 

 

 

 

Wow! That's it - tnx

Edited October 1, 2018 by epozar

[e8n2]

9 hours ago, Finn said:

Here is one with no belly turret:

 

 

caption says March 1942 but it was stateside. Some guns were easier to take out than others plus to keep the weight and balance of the a/c correct those in turrets were left in for the most part.

 

Jari

Based on the insignia, that would be an E model and the belly turret, either manned or remotely operated, was probably airbrushed out of the photo.

Later,

Dave

[canberra kid]

Two more

John

[Finn]

13 hours ago, e8n2 said:

Based on the insignia, that would be an E model and the belly turret, either manned or remotely operated, was probably airbrushed out of the photo.

Later,

Dave

 

Here is one with the turret and another without:

 

 

edit: more pics of B-17s can be found here:

 

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/4b69cb3432974991.html

 

click under Related images to scroll them.

 

Jari

Edited October 2, 2018 by Finn