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Avro Lancaster STGB Chat


vppelt68

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I have rather overstretched myself with a lot of group build entries so it would be extremely silly brilliant and ill thought-out considered to enter this one. 😁


so, theres a new tool 1:72 Airfix (08013A) on it’s way as we speak so I hope it’s ok to join the fun here and participate. 🤗

 

i inadvertently ordered the wrong scale PE (72 instead of 48) for a mosquito project last year... and had to reorder in 1/48

so this is a great excuse to use it and not let it go to waste.

post #57 here...

 

i havent read through all 7 pages of this thread, so please excuse me if its been brought up already, but can anyone recommend a good book for a lancaster - a walkaround showing details kinda book?

 

Edited by Dansk
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37 minutes ago, vppelt68 said:

Sorry to say I can't help you with the walkaround - but very happy to have you with us!

Edit: have you already checked these pics?

 

I hadn’t seen that before.
What perfect references 👍 thx!

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Actually... Me neither, but since you asked I decided to take a look if there was one! As usual, Britmodeller didn't fail to serve 😊.

There's also the current Airfix Aerodrome edition worth having a look:

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/news/aerodrome/avro-lancaster-air-to-ground-photo-sortie?utm_campaign=2597549_Airfix - Aerodrome - Week 46 2019%2F2020&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Hornby PLC&_%24ja=tsid%3A71284&dm_i=2DJZ,1JOA5,2AQC11,583US,1

Edit: These two links are a good start for the Reference-thread of the STGB!

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It is always worth checking the walkaround section. These are on the whole pictures taken by modellers so they know what details other modellers want. 

 

I just checked and as a total we now have  over 45000 pics uploaded in total, so there should be something for everyone.

 

Julien

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1 hour ago, Julien said:

It is always worth checking the walkaround section. These are on the whole pictures taken by modellers so they know what details other modellers want. 

 

I just checked and as a total we now have  over 45000 pics uploaded in total, so there should be something for everyone.

 

Julien

That’s a brilliant resource i regularly overlook. 

Edited by Dansk
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The Works have got the the Avro Lancaster Haynes manual on offer at the minute for £7

https://www.theworks.co.uk/p/military-books/haynes-avro-lancaster-manual/9780857338303?CAWELAID=720011340002877250&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvdHK7JPU5wIVSbDtCh2xcgRIEAQYASABEgJ9r_D_BwE

 

Plenty of info in these for us modellers as a source of reference

 

Ian :) 

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8 hours ago, Redstaff said:

The Works have got the the Avro Lancaster Haynes manual on offer at the minute for £7

https://www.theworks.co.uk/p/military-books/haynes-avro-lancaster-manual/9780857338303?CAWELAID=720011340002877250&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvdHK7JPU5wIVSbDtCh2xcgRIEAQYASABEgJ9r_D_BwE

 

Plenty of info in these for us modellers as a source of reference

 

Ian :) 

Good idea

Found a good used one on amazon for 2 pounds, bought and on its way 👍

Theres another there for pretty much the same price if you’re interested too

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Time for some poetry!

 

SHOWPIECE LANCASTER
I dream now of another time,
Of soaring wings and slipstream whine
Of airscrew arcs and engine drone,
And cloudy canyons I have known.
Once we were many, and we knew,
The love of thousands, our aircrew,
So many lovers, past recall,
Yet we were faithful to them all.
When towering columns split the night,
With brilliant beams of searching light,
Then in just moments we became,
Small insects, round a naked flame.
And with us then, our young men knew,
An eighth, unwanted, crewman flew,
He whispered, taunted, often near,
Unseen but known, for he was fear.
Time after time, we saw the cost,
To all who fought so well, yet lost,
For them a fiery plunge through space,
In another time, another place.
For you old lovers, youth has gone,
Relentless, time is moving on,
With arms outstretched, with measured pace
To take you all in cold embrace.
Time has not marred my grim old frame,
To your fading eyes, I am the same,
Look well, all strangers standing there,
For I am the mighty LANCASTER.

 

Walter Scott, ex 630 Squadron Royal Air Force

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7 hours ago, Dansk said:

Theres another there for pretty much the same price if you’re interested too

Already got one thanks, the wife went to town so I got her to pick me one up :) 

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11 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

Time for some poetry!

 

SHOWPIECE LANCASTER
I dream now of another time,
Of soaring wings and slipstream whine
Of airscrew arcs and engine drone,
And cloudy canyons I have known.
Once we were many, and we knew,
The love of thousands, our aircrew,
So many lovers, past recall,
Yet we were faithful to them all.
When towering columns split the night,
With brilliant beams of searching light,
Then in just moments we became,
Small insects, round a naked flame.
And with us then, our young men knew,
An eighth, unwanted, crewman flew,
He whispered, taunted, often near,
Unseen but known, for he was fear.
Time after time, we saw the cost,
To all who fought so well, yet lost,
For them a fiery plunge through space,
In another time, another place.
For you old lovers, youth has gone,
Relentless, time is moving on,
With arms outstretched, with measured pace
To take you all in cold embrace.
Time has not marred my grim old frame,
To your fading eyes, I am the same,
Look well, all strangers standing there,
For I am the mighty LANCASTER.

 

Walter Scott, ex 630 Squadron Royal Air Force

Beautiful piece but sad in some ways. :poppy:

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On 1/10/2020 at 10:54 PM, Adrian Hills said:

I'm also toying with the idea of doing the very first manifestation of the Manchester L7246. A Spanish (?) chap, Luis Mira, has already done a conversion of the 1/144 Amodel Lanc and placed a lot of lovely info online at : http://www.model34.com/index.php?topic=4060.0

 

This kind of seat of the pants, get the saw and the putty out really appeals to me. I will be using the 1/96 scale Frog kit as the basis of a model that represents this aircraft. I have the kit, some surplus 1/72 Matchbox Flying Fortress wings and a canopy I pull moulded for an earlier model using this kit.  But I have some questions and comments about the colour scheme.

 

In its INITIAL form, ie with 80ft wingspan what colours was it painted ? Snr Mira used dark earth/dark green with black undersides. This aircraft was a prototype but photographs, such as in Warpaint No 103 show that there was no yellow prototype P in a yellow circle. The fuselage roundel has a black ring which is obviously yellow and rendered such in the image due to use of orthochromatic film (as an aside this is shown as black on the Mira model - a minor inaccuracy on an otherwise superb model).  I suggest the underside was also yellow.

 

I would like your comments, Please 🙂

Hi Adrian,

 

Dug out my old Profile of the Manchester and it certainly seems that the second prototype had yellow undersurfaces and the "P" on the fuselage, but the 1st seems to be in standard bomber markings/colours of the day. One of my sources says the yellow unders and the "P" were not introduced until mid 1941 but I think that is a bit late! I had forgotten about the shorter wings on the 2 prototypes, and wondered if you were getting confused by the two sizes of tail, but you are of course correct. My conversion was a Mk IA to avoid the need to fiddle with the horizontal and vertical tail and add a third fin. However the Planet kit I bought is the Mk I (they did the IA as well) which had the shorter span tail with smaller endplates and the central fin. Not sure exactly how many of these were made - Profile says the first 28 had the shorter/smaller tail, though other sources say 20 - I must admit I thought it was over 100 and that seems to be borne out by the serials in the Putnam's Avro book, which also lists at least 40 which then had the wider tail retro-fitted but I am probably wrong.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited by PeterB
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Hi Adrian,

 

Near miss so far, The valley below me got hit quite badly but I am 200ft up the side of the hills, so only suffered from the overflow from the flooded drain on the road above me. A fair bit of mud on my steps and path but I can live with that.

 

Thanks for asking.

 

Pete

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I have two of the older Airfix 08002 versions so I will be building such. 

I am actually in the race to build ten such aircraft for my diorama, not that I have space for them ALL, but so I can rotate them on the display.

I am looking forward to starting and getting some Lancasters under my skin . . . 

 

Ian

 

Edited by Mancunian airman
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This was in town a couple of hundred yards from where I used to work on I think Monday morning - gone down now but with more heavy rain to come today and Thursday! A lot of the shops , my doctor's surgery, and the local museum were hit quite badly but at least nobody was hurt.

ponty

The other worry is potential landslips as for many year coal waste from the 100 or so mines in the area was just dumped either on the side of existing hills or to make new ones. There have been a few small slides but fortunately nothing like Aberfan!  Not very nice, and looks like we can expect more of it in the future.

 

Pete

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20 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

Used car buyers beware, LV54KTK if read correctly, is not one to bet your money on!

"Vorsprung durch Wetnik"!😁 Given that there is an alternative route which is higher up and was fairly dry, I do wonder just why they needed to drive down that road and risk getting stuck. Not the brightest of ideas.

 

Pete

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45 minutes ago, vppelt68 said:

Ah but what can you except from someone driving an Auto Union :wicked:

Yeah but if there was 'Beamer' driver in shot he'd be trying to overtake!

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Ok,

 

Here's a question for you. What is the difference between a Manchester Mk I and a Manchester Mk IA? I have always thought that the Mk IA had the new wider Lancaster type tail with bigger endplates and dispensed with the central fin, but a book I have just read says that the Mk I was the first 20 planes that had the ventral turret, and everything else with the dorsal turret instead was the Mk IA! This could explain why some sources say there were only 20 (or perhaps 28) Mk I whilst others seem to suggest over 100, some of which were later converted to Mk IA. Certainly I have seen several mentions of problems with airflow over the central fin when the dorsal turret was traversed which would seem to confirm that some at least had both the dorsal turret and the short span tail with 3rd fin - I am confused! Jackson in Putnam's "Avro Aircraft since 1908" says "The new tail proved superior to the old triple fin arrangement and was fitted retrospectively to all Manchester Is which then became Manchester IAs." and lists 85 Mk I build by Avro and 71 Mk IA, with another 44 by Metropolitan Vickers which seem to have been Mk I - this does agree with the accepted figure of 200 produced plus 2 prototypes. He then goes on to list 42 converted to Mk IA. The figures do not add up if, as he said, they were all converted, unless many had been lost by then, which is of course quite possible as nearly 40% were lost on operations and more by accident apparently..

 

Any ideas?

 

Pete

Edited by PeterB
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Manchester Production Batches

2 prototypes, L7246 & L7247

Mk1

L7276-L7302 27 aircraft, 1st 9/10/11? delivered with mid under turret, 1st 20 delivered with 28' tailplane and triple fins, remainder with 33' tailplane and triple fins

L7303-L7483 103 aircraft, all with 33' tailplane and triple fins

R5768-R5841 43 aircraft, all with 33' tailplane and triple fins

Mk1A

L7483-L5726 27 aircraft, all with 33' tailplane and twin fins

Mk1's retrofitted with twin fins became Mk1A's

Ref Avro Manchester by Robert Kirby, Appendix E.

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Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for that. So just to confuse matters further a whole lot had the wider tailplane but the smaller endplates and central fin! I know the kit has small endplates and a central fin, but I must check the span. Decs are for L7427 and L7284 so according to your source should have the 33' span.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

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39 minutes ago, PeterB said:

Decs are for L7427 and L7284 so according to your source should have the 33' span.

L7284 - 8th production Manchester Mk 1 Delivered with FN21A mid under turret, 28' tailplane and triple fins

27 MU 29/10/40, 207Sqn 29/11/40, U/C failure 24/2/41 forced landing ex ops at Waddington, 43 Group Deposit Account 25/2/41, 207 Sqn 6/4/41, 61 Sqn 15/4/41, Avro Service & Supply14/7/41, 39 12/9/42, SOC undated, 1 operation. (Kirby, appendix E)

Almost certainly kept short span tail and triple fins throughout it's life. Only 1 op, mainy used for conversion training.

 

L7427 2nd production batch, delivered with FN7A mid upper turret, 33' tailplane and triple fins

Avro Service & Supply 14/6/41, 97 Sqn 26/6/41 Cat R(B) 3/7/41 Stbd eng faailed in flight during intensive engine trial, yawed, unable to maintain height, forced landing in field 2 miles East of Spalding. 43 Group Deposit Account 3/7/41, 83 Sqn 9/1/42, Avro repair on site 10/2/42 no accident card, 83 Sqn 14/2/42, Missing from ops 8-9/4/42 coded OL*Q pilot P/O Morphett - 7 crew-1 survivor - target Hamburg. Crashed Ermke, Germany, at 0010. Rear Gunner died while PoW. 16 Operations (Kirby, appendix E)

No note for conversion to Mk1a so most likely triple fin until loss.

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