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vppelt68

Avro Lancaster STGB Chat

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I'm considering a Tiger Force Lancaster. I am hoping to build a 9 or 617 squadron aircraft as requested by General Spaatz for a pair of Tallboy Squadrons...

Now, I'm assuming these aircraft would have been B MKI converted to carry the Tallboy with bulged bomb bay doors. Presumably these aircraft would have been modified to FE spec?.....or, would they have used MKVII aircraft modified as the BI?

I have found no pictures of a bulged bomb bay MKVII or, BI FE yet the 9 and 617 squadron aircraft were due to be shipped out in August 1945 so, does anybody have any ideas please?

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Aha, found it!

"Selection of Equipment.

The ending of the German war on 8 May 1945 permitted planningfor the deployment of Tiger Force to gain momentum, although itscomposition and the associated dates continued to change to reflectuncertainties in aircraft availability and modification states, and theavailability of bases. Before the month was out, the stated intentionwas to equip the main force with tropicalised Lancaster VIIs, modifiedto operate at an all-up weight of 72,000 lbs with one 400-gallon bombbay tank, no mid-upper turret, the new FN82 tail turret and appropriate radio and navigation aids. The radio/radar fit was discussed at ameeting held at the Telecommunications Research Establishment(TRE) at Defford on 8 June when it was decided that it should include: GEE Mk III, REBECCA Mk II, LORAN Mk I, a radio altimeter, IFF, twin VHF radios, a radio range receiver 87, Marconi HF W/T,H2S Mk IIIG or H.

This equipment was to be installed by No 32 MU at St Athan whence selected aircraft were to be flown to Waddington and/or EastKirby to have enlarged bomb doors and equipment associated with the TALLBOY bomb fitted by civilian working parties. A Lancaster VII modified to Tiger Force standards was inspected at Defford on 1 August. Since 1 May, all new Lancaster production, Mks I, III and VII, hadbeen delivered to No 41 Group and held in store to meet therequirements of Tiger Force. Because there was some uncertaintyover the reliability of supplies of American-built engines, however, it was decided not to use the Lancaster III with its Packard Merlins. The first Lancaster VIIs, the preferred variant, had begun to roll off theproduction lines (they were being built by Austin Motors atLongbridge) in April and, to permit crew familiarisation to be undertaken, the first eighty aircraft were required by 15 July, with another eighty in August and subsequent production continuing to atotal of 450 aircraft. This was a somewhat optimistic target,however, and, in the event, it proved necessary to use Mk Is as well. Aircraft destined for the Far East theatre were designated LancasterB I(FE) and B VII(FE) and finished in a tropical scheme of black undersurfaces with white top and sides."

But further on.....Special Missions Wing, RAF. Forming at Waddington, to be called forward, late 1945. No 9 Sqn 20 Lancaster B.I(FE) or B.I (Special), No 617 Sqn 20 Lancaster B.I(FE) or B.I (Special)


Source: https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Research/RAF-Historical-Society-Journals/Journal_44_Misc_ACM_Graydon_as_CAS_Air_Land_Co-op_in_Op_TELIC_Tiger_Force.pdf

It also answers the other question I was going to ask about H2S and turrets!

As one of my interests is the airfields of WW2 in Herefordshire and Worcestershire, and Defford being a remarkably interesting experimental base in Worcestershire, I'm planning to build the aircraft mentioned if that's acceptable....can't find any pictures though!

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I might join if I can find a cheap kit at the conventions next month.

 

Nothing complicated.Something 1/72 nd out of the box,just for fun.

But...you never know I can buy the 1/48 th Tamiya kit at a bargain price !

Edited by Erwin

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More info, NX611 (Just Jane) and NX622 were of the first batch of 150 MKVIIs intended for Tiger Force. I have found reference to NX618 that was at Defford but there are no references as yet to what she was used for but, 

 

"RAF Defford became the main station in Britain for the development of airborne radar during and after the Second World War.  The airfield housed the Telecommunications Flying Unit (TFU), carrying out flight trials for the Telecommunications Research Establishment (TRE), which had moved from Worth Matravers to Malvern in May 1942." source: https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/croome/features/raf-defford

 

 

 

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Am I ok to build the MKVII that was inspected at Defford...probably NX618...without photographic evidence?

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I don't think any rule anywhere in the whole forum requires photographic evidence to back a build, so why not? V-P

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On 2/6/2020 at 7:06 PM, Redstaff said:

Not me I'm afraid, I'm a more build out of the box with sensible extras but if it was homage to the film, wouldn't it have to be black and white 🤔 🤣

 

Ian

Dambuster-088.jpg

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When I was deliberating on which kit to build I was undecided about the Airfix or Revell Dambuster and eventually picked the new Airfix kit :)

Last night sitting looking at Ebay I spotted a bargain, (think the alcohol may have helped as well) my fingers slipped and now I have a Revell Dambuster on it's way in the post 🤣

 So if I get a move on with the first, I might get round to the second as well and we'll see what the differences are 🤔

I think I may need therapy, especially if SWMBO intercepts it first as she can't see why my stash expands quicker than I build them

 

Ian :) 

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@Redstaff I know the feeling all too well, the kids are on standing orders to put any deliveries directly into the man cave!

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34 minutes ago, MarkSH said:

@Redstaff I know the feeling all too well, the kids are on standing orders to put any deliveries directly into the man cave!

I have sometimes had some parcels delivered to my mom (now 81 years) who lives just 2 km away... Then collected them quietly :noob: what, no noob- emoticon available!?! :rofl2:

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Hiding new stash deliveries?. this almost requires a new dedicated thread on its own. Funny stuff. 
 

Cheers.. Dave

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A big question I'm afraid will remain unanswered but I´ll ask it anyway! Here´s something from the war diary of the USAAF 535th Bomb Squadron of the 381st Bomb Group, March 2 1945:

 

"Humorous bright spot of the day was M/Sgt Harry J. Gerberding's planes trip to Cologne with the RAF. It took off as a spare, 533rd crew aboard, couldn't catch the formation, so teamed up with a flight of Lancasters to bomb the marshalling yards at
Cologne. The aircraft had a bombsight, in addition to its serial number 44-6883, it now bears the name "RAFAAF"."

 

Fear not, I won´t try to make a B-17 eligible in this GB :rofl2:. The 533rd BS war diary has more details about this truly Combined Bomber Operation:

 

"A lone Flying Fortress, the 533rd squadron's symbolically named "RAFAAF", bombed Cologne with a formation of RAF Lancasters. The ship, piloted by 2nd Lt Charles H. Carpenter, of Mobile, Ala., was an accidental member of the RAF formation.
Carpenter had originally taken off for today's Eighth Air Force mission in another bomber, but returned to his base to get a new Fortress when his plane developed mechanical difficulties. En route for the second time, and five minutes behind his formation, he searched the skies for the bomber stream. Far ahead he saw what he described as "a great blob of ships", so he "poured the coal on", and caught up with them. They turned out to be Lancasters, but it was then too late to seek out the 381st formation and Carpenter elected to "give the English a hand". There was "all kinds of flak" at Cologne, in the words of 2nd Lt Sidney J. Silcock, the navigator. He described red, white and black bursts, as well as "a new kind of phosphorus flak that made an explosion as big as a house." The Fortress took its turn on the target with the rest of the bombers and the crew said the bombardier "laid them right in there". "After all", said carpenter, "daylight bombing's our speciality so we couldn't let those Lancaster boys beat us at it!". Coming back from the mission, the Lancasters spotted their added starter and proceeded to make the Fortress welcome in their own way. They sent challenges through the air, fired flares at "RAFAAF", and two of the Lancasters even flew formation across the Channel with the American bomber."

 

It's a great story! If anybody knew which RAF squadron that Fortress joined, I might be - no, who am I kidding, I am interested in modelling one of those Lancasters instead of the initial PO-S... V-P

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Also tactics for hiding the real size of the stash. Mrs Jockney recently went away for a spar weekend so i relocated about 500 kits from the garage to the loft.

 

Worryingly having now brought the kits together that are still in the garage, it looks just as many !

 

My new purchases are posted to work

 

Cheers Pat

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10 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Hiding new stash deliveries?. this almost requires a new dedicated thread on its own. Funny stuff. 
 

Cheers.. Dave

Thanks for the idea, see here: 

 

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