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1/32 - Avro Lancaster B.Mk.I/III by Border Model (ex-Wingnut Wings) - released


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)I'm not sure a WnW was underprized. WW1airplanes was small and not too construction difficult as WW2.  I have only Camel and Fokker D.VII ( i planed a whole collection but WnW going OOB)but when i bought it, i must say... nice...but little overprized. A price tag around 50%(50€/$/£) as is tagged Dr.I by Meng (or WW2 biplanes by ICM)is more realistic. 350€ isn't bad price, HK lanc cost this money and re- boxed WnW  (Border) twice ? F.E look at price tag of B-24 in 1/32 from Trumpeter. 120$. I read a review of quarter scale Lanc on Modeling news and here was a point: Why i detailed interior when i cant seeing it ? Many modellers throw 50% plastic to bin and used AM parts for interior, engines, metal carriage, turrets etc.... and you have soon a 1000$ price tag  But when you haven't a clear fuselage (and who build clear fuselage kits ?)you can't installed many parts because you can't see it...In Lanc you see a liitle to pilot seats, bomb aimer bubble and turrets. Interior is dark... this isn't Boeing or Liberator with big windows for side gunners...and open bomb bays....(very good it is make in 1/72 wimpy from Airfix - you cant install this and this because you can't see it.) 

 

Yes, i wan't a WnW Lanc and i "pray for it", but 700€ is too high from first suggested 350€. And still is little confidental it is a limited release.... for 700€ must be this kit a shakes n' bakes without any issues and flaws. I hope a be... but Price... 

 

I'm sad from it :(

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Stephen said:

I'm not going to purchase the kit but on the subject of price I would suggest that for the cost of the kit you should measure it against how much time and enjoyment you're going to get out of building it and doing the moulding justice . It's not going to be built quickly unless you've got the time to spend all day every day on it. If you build it over nights/weekends it's realistically going to take a good few months so if you measure the cost against that it's not going to be that excessive. 

You are absolutely right about time and enjoyment versus cost. I always said the same thing about Wingnut Wings kits to those who thought they were too expensive. For those who did buy them they knew that those kits should take a lot longer to build than a Tamigawa kit and that was where the real value came in. Whether this particular kit is worth the price is entirely a matter for each individual and there is no right or wrong answer, only individual opinions. Personally I couldn't do this one justice but I know many folk who have the skills and patience to make something stunning from this kit. To compare with another scale model hobby, model railway, a £700 price tag can be a snip!!

 

Duncan B

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Whether the kit is desirable enough to be worth the asking price is the consumer's choice, surely? It's a product. It is what it is, and it costs what it costs.

 

As for 'all the unnecessary details make it too expensive and who's going to see it anyway', well that's the manufacturer's choice. You can't ask for one without the interior and ask them to knock off a few hundred quid, it's a model kit, not a Subway sandwich 😒

 

If you want one, you'll find a way to get one and then it's yours to build, stack in the loft or sacrifice to the great god Pan as you wish. If you don't want one, well you've already got what you want 😉

 

 

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It will be interesting to see what’s actually in the box because Richard Alexander said that they were wondering whether to include detail in the areas you couldn’t see and also whether to include 4 complete engines or just one, and of course the RRP was going to depend on exactly what you got in the box. Maybe Border are giving you the full Monty with their release, we know the initial kits will

include metal barrels although I’m not sure how much the Master ones for the HKM kit cost so it’s hard to quantify that added value. Frankly it aught to include them as standard at that potential price point!!

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in EU ( with VAT differencies ) WnW kit was supposed to cost between 340-370€, how ( taken all the logistics problems into account )did we reach almost 600€, 80% price hike...and about finishing the model by Border, at Telford when it was still WnW project it was 90% ready, tooling itself was done, tweaking was necessary but stating that Border needed lots of time and effort is....

At the time and today one can get 2x Airfix Typhoons for app.240-260€, or for app.340-360€ two Tamiya Mosquitos, asking around 550-600€ for Lancaster sized model is beyond ludicrous.

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44 minutes ago, Simon Cornes said:

It will be interesting to see what’s actually in the box because Richard Alexander said that they were wondering whether to include detail in the areas you couldn’t see and also whether to include 4 complete engines or just one, and of course the RRP was going to depend on exactly what you got in the box. 

The blurb on the Albion website says they will include blank engine blocks as well in case you don't want to build all four engines. As you still get the engines anyway, I guess those are extra parts 😉

 

https://www.albionhobbies.com/product-ranges/border-models/

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It could well be the 100% kit then - much like HKM to be fair but I wouldn’t have really felt the need for detail for and aft of the mid upper but you would want detail visible through the rear entrance hatch. I have seen an HKM kit built and with part of the starboard nose area left clear and it wasn’t that bad a looking machine. It’s funny, back in the 70’s I was very keen to add invisible detail to my Airfix builds but now I don’t feel the need!!

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16 hours ago, Simon Cornes said:

It’s funny, back in the 70’s I was very keen to add invisible detail to my Airfix builds but now I don’t feel the need!!

I would normally agree, but my recent 1/24 Hellcat kit was just so good I built and detailed all the hidden, invisible details to the same standard as the rest of it. I suspect if I ever had one of these i would probably do the same 😂

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Just received a mail from Lucky Model showing this ready for pre-order, €545 delivered to home... onto which I may have to add VAT, meaning roughly €110 more. Now if MBK include shipping in their €600 price I'd rather go with the German shop if in Europe.

Is it expensive ? Well, cheap it is not but in any case the price is what the manufacturer have decided on, not much we can do, apart from waiting for someone to sell the kit at a lower price. That may happen... or may not, as the kit may well become a collectible if production numbers are low and demand is high. Maybe buying one now at €600 is actually a good idea and the kit may be worth double that in a year or so.

That brings me to a thought: yes, it's an expensive toy, but aren't there other more expensive toys around ? If the logic is that this is a waste of plastic because only a few modellers can afford one and even less will have room to display it, what should we think about cars that cost £ 2-300K or more ? Afterall nobody needs 700 Hp to go from A to B, nobody needs a roof that by night simulates the stars or similar amenities... yet somebody buy that stuff. Because they like it. Because they want to have something special, even if this "special" may be totally superfluous. Most important, because they can.

Maybe we should see this kit as something similar: a product claiming to be special that, according to the manufacturer, demand a special price. Sure not everybody will be able to afford one, others may afford one but find the cost hard to justify, others will buy it and cherish it, regardless of what they decide to do with it. I see nothing bad in this, it's the manufacturer who set the price of a product, it will then be the market to decide if the product is worth the price and so make or break the success of such product.

All keeping in mind that while this sounds like an incredibly expensive kit, it's only because we plastic aircraft kits enthusiasts are used to relatively cheap stuff, other branches of the hobby would consider this kind of prices are normal for high end products

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On 10/2/2021 at 2:20 PM, tank152 said:

Better to regret something you've done than not done.

 

Yes, but the other way round is usually cheaper. 😀

 

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On 10/4/2021 at 8:54 AM, Giorgio N said:

 

All keeping in mind that while this sounds like an incredibly expensive kit, it's only because we plastic aircraft kits enthusiasts are used to relatively cheap stuff, other branches of the hobby would consider this kind of prices are normal for high end products

 

Dolls houses are a very good example. 

 

My wife used to do them ...and to give you some idea a bathroom suite in 1/12 scale was more expensive than a full size one from the local DIY store.

 

Dick

Won't be getting one cos' I've got nowhere to put it...... wish I had.

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Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.  A good test case was last night on E-bay.  I am looking for 1/32 Crusader C decals to backdate a Trumpeter Crusader E to go with my Crusader E and the Paul Fisher conversion set that I have.  My usual "1/32 Crusader" search came up with the same Paul Fisher Conversion set for sale in the USA a few days ago.  I was watching it out of curiosity.  The auction closed overnight in the USA at 26 bids and dollar equivalent of £354.53 price plus posts from the USA.:yikes:  I guess a US bidder war so no VAT etc for import but I make the point as above - it was worth what at least 2 guys or more were prepared to pay.

 

While that sort of outcome doesn't translate across to bulk sales I suspect there are enough sales out there at that price point to make Border Models a profit.  Rarity does carry a higher price tag.  You see it every week on Antiques Roadshow.  Its no surprise then that Borders Models are making it clear that we are looking at a Limited Edition release.  Have they then made it clear that once these kits are sold there will be no more  - ever??  If they do produce more later I suspect it will come back to hurt them after using the old "Come and get them. Once they are gone they are gone" sales pitch.  Or are we going to see more "limited editions" later on??

 

 

 

Now anyone want to trade a Border Models Lanc for a Trumpy Crusader and Paul Fisher conversion set :D

 

 

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17 minutes ago, jenko said:

 

Dolls houses are a very good example. 

 

My wife used to do them ...and to give you some idea a bathroom suite in 1/12 scale was more expensive than a full size one from the local DIY store.

 

Dick

Won't be getting one cos' I've got nowhere to put it...... wish I had.

I wonder if there will be a small 'glut' of wall mounted glass cases - 1 metre by 670mm and about 20cm deep that will take a Lanc on knife edge with gear down very nicely, possibly hinged at the top so that you can remove the airframe for 'horizontal display' from time to time? Probably not but an interesting idea for all that unused wall space!! Move the mirror somewhere else!!

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19 minutes ago, JohnT said:

  Its no surprise then that Borders Models are making it clear that we are looking at a Limited Edition release.  Have they then made it clear that once these kits are sold there will be no more  - ever??  If they do produce more later I suspect it will come back to hurt them after using the old "Come and get them. Once they are gone they are gone" sales pitch.  Or are we going to see more "limited editions" later on??

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quoting from the original announcement: 'Due to many production troubles and mold maintenance issues, the product will be sold in limited quantities worldwide and will not be produced again for a certain period of time afterwards.'.   So they've already said there will be more,

 

Paul.

Edited by Paul Thompson
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If you have the money to buy it and the time to do it and the space to store it then I say get it.

 

You're born, you live, you build, you die. This will only ever be a once in a lifetime kit.

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48 minutes ago, Gordon J said:

If you have the money to buy it and the time to do it and the space to store it then I say get it.

 

You're born, you live, you build, you die. This will only ever be a once in a lifetime kit.

 

I entirely agree with Gordon there.  I just wish there wasn't so many once in a lifetime kits to buy and build.  The so and so's keep on making new ones too !

 

 

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2 hours ago, Julien said:

Can we keep potentially libellous comments out of the thread please. 

 

Also for the last time - No off topic comments.

 

Yeah, I guess I should have known better. I'm sorry.

 

John

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At least from Hannants we now know what the box top looks like , some progress ! .

 

                                                                                                                                                                          

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10 hours ago, Paul Thompson said:

 

Quoting from the original announcement: 'Due to many production troubles and mold maintenance issues, the product will be sold in limited quantities worldwide and will not be produced again for a certain period of time afterwards.'.   So they've already said there will be more,

 

Paul.

Border even state, Cooper metal barrels with this 'limited edition kit'.

So 12 months or so down the line another lot appear without the barrels.Remember WNW limited run 'get them while you can' kits, kit re-appears later with different decals  🤣

I'm thinking the initial production run will include quite a number that will be kept back for later sales

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1 hour ago, Tim R-T-C said:

In our hobby, nothing is really limited since nothing stops another firm producing exactly the same subject in the same scale!

 

And don't HK models know that 🤣

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Yesterday I was showing my Dad the CAD and test shot imagery and he was talking like he wanted one. He didn't raise an eyebrow when I mentioned the price even though I know they're not well-off.

 

To my knowledge he's not built a kit since I could properly go it alone at age 12 - 22yr ago. The idea of him launching into one of these is equal parts madness and intrigue!!

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https://www.themodellingnews.com/2021/09/preview-border-model-bombshell.html#more

 

If for nothing else, I could buy it for its boxart. Amazing evocative painting. 

 

A 1/32 Lancaster although it sounds great but I wonder how many of us could it buy it, build it and then display it. It will not need shelf space. It will need a room to display. And I have tough time building 1/48th scale kits because I dont have anywhere to display them! 

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