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1/32 - Avro Lancaster B.Mk.I/III by Border Model (ex-Wingnut Wings) - released


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10 hours ago, Learstang said:

I've recently been in touch with Mr. Aerocraft (the last couple of days in fact), and it sounds like he's not interested in doing any AM for the Border Models Lanc right now. Of course, if he were overwhelmed with requests from people who have actually purchased this beast, who knows. By the by, he is on this site as 'Ali62'. I contacted him originally to pester him about doing a proper canopy for the HB A-26 (yes, I know, why bother with all its other inaccuracies).

 

Regards,

 

Jason

Let me do a quick explanation. £600.00 is a lot for me to pay out on a kit that I would probably never build. I would need to buy the kit, fix up that canopies and then sell everything off, which could work, but the gamble is fairly high. Also the time just to develop better parts would be quite a bit, and then if Border does fix the problem then where am I, having done all the work. 
Flow lines are even a problem in my clear casting, but as a general rule are no where near as apparent as in many kit canopies. As far as some of the other failures, like the lines you guys are discussing through the clear I should be able to eradicate those as well as the orange peel effect.

I agree with Simon though the canopies WILL ALMOST definitely not be changed or upgraded, OTHER than where they are actually broken I recon in time you will get replacements but the quality will be the same.

 

So plan B, IF between a few of you or at least one person is prepared to send me a set of canopies, these can be ones that have cracks in them, but not in pieces, I can then see how I can repair to take sub masters from them and then to start working up a set of replacements.

I do not even know the sizes and shapes of all the parts exactly, but am hoping that between 2 or 3 of you we would get a full set of SPARE canopy parts I could work with, once you have received second sets etc.

THE NEXT BIG THING, just remember that a full set of clear cast resin parts will probably start setting you back in the region of possibly £40-£50.00 PLUS SHIPPING (pure guess / estimation) BUT how many of you would be prepared to pay that?

 

I shall leave this with you guys, come back with your thoughts and ideas, I am quite happy if you want to repost or discuss this on other modelling forums, to start the ball rolling, as Jason says if there is enough requests and commitment, I am more likely to look at these options.

I still reserve the right to pull out once I see the parts or the project becomes to problematic.

 

Could somebody post up a picture or two of the complete clear sprue / sprues layout so I can see shapes and sizes.

 

Believe you me clear takes a HUGE amount of work to get the master right and working moulds, material costs are 5X higher that standard resin and silicone, and the failure rates are often around 50%, added to all of that there is an electrical bill for post curing the resin in an oven. General turn around time from pouring resin to removing from mould is 6-7 hours, and then the part could be a failure…….

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ali62 said:

Let me do a quick explanation. £600.00 is a lot for me to pay out on a kit that I would probably never build. I would need to buy the kit, fix up that canopies and then sell everything off, which could work, but the gamble is fairly high. Also the time just to develop better parts would be quite a bit, and then if Border does fix the problem then where am I, having done all the work. 
Flow lines are even a problem in my clear casting, but as a general rule are no where near as apparent as in many kit canopies. As far as some of the other failures, like the lines you guys are discussing through the clear I should be able to eradicate those as well as the orange peel effect.

I agree with Simon though the canopies WILL ALMOST definitely not be changed or upgraded, OTHER than where they are actually broken I recon in time you will get replacements but the quality will be the same.

 

So plan B, IF between a few of you or at least one person is prepared to send me a set of canopies, these can be ones that have cracks in them, but not in pieces, I can then see how I can repair to take sub masters from them and then to start working up a set of replacements.

I do not even know the sizes and shapes of all the parts exactly, but am hoping that between 2 or 3 of you we would get a full set of SPARE canopy parts I could work with, once you have received second sets etc.

THE NEXT BIG THING, just remember that a full set of clear cast resin parts will probably start setting you back in the region of possibly £40-£50.00 PLUS SHIPPING (pure guess / estimation) BUT how many of you would be prepared to pay that?

 

I shall leave this with you guys, come back with your thoughts and ideas, I am quite happy if you want to repost or discuss this on other modelling forums, to start the ball rolling, as Jason says if there is enough requests and commitment, I am more likely to look at these options.

I still reserve the right to pull out once I see the parts or the project becomes to problematic.

 

Could somebody post up a picture or two of the complete clear sprue / sprues layout so I can see shapes and sizes.

 

Believe you me clear takes a HUGE amount of work to get the master right and working moulds, material costs are 5X higher that standard resin and silicone, and the failure rates are often around 50%, added to all of that there is an electrical bill for post curing the resin in an oven. General turn around time from pouring resin to removing from mould is 6-7 hours, and then the part could be a failure…….

 

 

Thanks for sharing the goods on this possible replacement.

I am still waiting for delivery of the Lancaster which is on a slow boat from china. 

Once I have them in my hands I can make a commitment for the new canopy set if required.

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Ali62 said:

So plan B, IF between a few of you or at least one person is prepared to send me a set of canopies, these can be ones that have cracks in them, but not in pieces, I can then see how I can repair to take sub masters from them and then to start working up a set of replacements.

 

Hi Ali,

I'm unwilling to send the clear sprues until I get a replacement set and assuming that this happens, then I'm happy to let you have a complete set of clear sprues, although I haven't yet heard back from Hannants, though I know that they have read my email!

 

I'll keep you informed, unless someone else gets there first :smile:

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8 hours ago, Tony C said:

 

Hi Ali,

I'm unwilling to send the clear sprues until I get a replacement set and assuming that this happens, then I'm happy to let you have a complete set of clear sprues, although I haven't yet heard back from Hannants, though I know that they have read my email!

 

I'll keep you informed, unless someone else gets there first :smile:

Hi Tony

 

no problem I understand your stand point I would do exactly the same. To be honest all round, this is not going to be a quick overnight fix for any of us. Let us see what happens, possibly between you and another one or two I may get a full set of ‘second’ canopies and with that can see what I can achieve. At this point I am really in the dark with the entire project as I have only seen what a few guys have shown with broken bits of canopy. 
 

cheers Ali

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26 minutes ago, Jack Ruskin said:

I'd buy replacement clears, put me down for two Ali

 

Trust me, for us HK Lanc owners with no clear sprues at all and zero spares service from HK, it'd be a godsend 

That’s interesting - if you have both the HKM and BorderNut Lancs then can you say which canopy ‘out of the box’ is better? People have suggested replacing the BorderNut canopy with an HKM one, mind you from what you say, getting an HKM spare may be difficult?

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35 minutes ago, gunpowder17 said:

I think Nigel says it wont fit , and i also think its a bit flatter in profile.

Ah so it’s not accurate. If Wingnut designed it then I would have a very high level of confidence that the BorderNut canopy is correct in shape and general structure.

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3 hours ago, Jack Ruskin said:

I'd buy replacement clears, put me down for two Ali

 

Trust me, for us HK Lanc owners with no clear sprues at all and zero spares service from HK, it'd be a godsend 

How come you have NO canopies?

mmm it would get exceptionally difficult to get canopies to fit these totally different kits from one master.

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I’ll definitely be in for a set of replacement clear parts for the Border kit. My clear parts are intact but have fairly prominent “cold shunt” lines on the main “greenhouse.”

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On 06/07/2022 at 08:44, Ali62 said:

Let me do a quick explanation. £600.00 is a lot for me to pay out on a kit that I would probably never build. I would need to buy the kit, fix up that canopies and then sell everything off, which could work, but the gamble is fairly high. Also the time just to develop better parts would be quite a bit, and then if Border does fix the problem then where am I, having done all the work. 
Flow lines are even a problem in my clear casting, but as a general rule are no where near as apparent as in many kit canopies. As far as some of the other failures, like the lines you guys are discussing through the clear I should be able to eradicate those as well as the orange peel effect.

I agree with Simon though the canopies WILL ALMOST definitely not be changed or upgraded, OTHER than where they are actually broken I recon in time you will get replacements but the quality will be the same.

 

So plan B, IF between a few of you or at least one person is prepared to send me a set of canopies, these can be ones that have cracks in them, but not in pieces, I can then see how I can repair to take sub masters from them and then to start working up a set of replacements.

I do not even know the sizes and shapes of all the parts exactly, but am hoping that between 2 or 3 of you we would get a full set of SPARE canopy parts I could work with, once you have received second sets etc.

THE NEXT BIG THING, just remember that a full set of clear cast resin parts will probably start setting you back in the region of possibly £40-£50.00 PLUS SHIPPING (pure guess / estimation) BUT how many of you would be prepared to pay that?

 

I shall leave this with you guys, come back with your thoughts and ideas, I am quite happy if you want to repost or discuss this on other modelling forums, to start the ball rolling, as Jason says if there is enough requests and commitment, I am more likely to look at these options.

I still reserve the right to pull out once I see the parts or the project becomes to problematic.

 

Could somebody post up a picture or two of the complete clear sprue / sprues layout so I can see shapes and sizes.

 

Believe you me clear takes a HUGE amount of work to get the master right and working moulds, material costs are 5X higher that standard resin and silicone, and the failure rates are often around 50%, added to all of that there is an electrical bill for post curing the resin in an oven. General turn around time from pouring resin to removing from mould is 6-7 hours, and then the part could be a failure…….

 

 

I’m a new member and I’ve bought one of these construction projects.

id certainly pay the price you quoted for a set without the flaws, so that’s another customer for you.

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@Ali62 's Plan B sounds very promising, I will certainly donate the clear sprues if I can get replacements. If by some miracle Border decides to reissue the clear parts in a presentable version, I think Ali would still produce a superior product and I'd be more than happy to contribute.

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22 minutes ago, Alan P said:

@Ali62 's Plan B sounds very promising, I will certainly donate the clear sprues if I can get replacements. If by some miracle Border decides to reissue the clear parts in a presentable version, I think Ali would still produce a superior product and I'd be more than happy to contribute.

I had an email from Albion including comments from Border and the bottom line is that Border won’t remake the clear sprue. They say that the cold front marks are inevitable in view of both the size of the moulds and how thin the components are. I don’t know if HKM’s glazing is slightly thicker and that’s what eliminates the issue for them but I think the best we are going to get is a crack free canopy, in fact any damage post manufacture that is caused either during packing or in transit. From my point of view I don’t think the cold front marks are that obvious and probably less so on a completed model. Having said that, I’m probably still up for Ali’s product if he decides to go ahead. 

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On 7/6/2022 at 5:44 PM, Ali62 said:

Let me do a quick explanation. £600.00 is a lot for me to pay out on a kit that I would probably never build. I would need to buy the kit, fix up that canopies and then sell everything off, which could work, but the gamble is fairly high. Also the time just to develop better parts would be quite a bit, and then if Border does fix the problem then where am I, having done all the work. 
Flow lines are even a problem in my clear casting, but as a general rule are no where near as apparent as in many kit canopies. As far as some of the other failures, like the lines you guys are discussing through the clear I should be able to eradicate those as well as the orange peel effect.

I agree with Simon though the canopies WILL ALMOST definitely not be changed or upgraded, OTHER than where they are actually broken I recon in time you will get replacements but the quality will be the same.

 

So plan B, IF between a few of you or at least one person is prepared to send me a set of canopies, these can be ones that have cracks in them, but not in pieces, I can then see how I can repair to take sub masters from them and then to start working up a set of replacements.

I do not even know the sizes and shapes of all the parts exactly, but am hoping that between 2 or 3 of you we would get a full set of SPARE canopy parts I could work with, once you have received second sets etc.

THE NEXT BIG THING, just remember that a full set of clear cast resin parts will probably start setting you back in the region of possibly £40-£50.00 PLUS SHIPPING (pure guess / estimation) BUT how many of you would be prepared to pay that?

 

I shall leave this with you guys, come back with your thoughts and ideas, I am quite happy if you want to repost or discuss this on other modelling forums, to start the ball rolling, as Jason says if there is enough requests and commitment, I am more likely to look at these options.

I still reserve the right to pull out once I see the parts or the project becomes to problematic.

 

Could somebody post up a picture or two of the complete clear sprue / sprues layout so I can see shapes and sizes.

 

Believe you me clear takes a HUGE amount of work to get the master right and working moulds, material costs are 5X higher that standard resin and silicone, and the failure rates are often around 50%, added to all of that there is an electrical bill for post curing the resin in an oven. General turn around time from pouring resin to removing from mould is 6-7 hours, and then the part could be a failure…….

 

 

I’m not trying to pressure you into buying this kit, but I think if you did it could be an investment whether or not you went ahead with creating new canopies.

 

Also, I’d be happy to pay about $100 aud for a full set of crystal clear parts, after all this is a once in a lifetime kit, it’ll take me at least 150 hours to build (250 if I include my usual “plastic fondling” time) So after the grand I’ve already paid, + $100 for clear parts, another $100 or so for paint, glue, masks etc, let’s just go crazy and call it a total of $1500, if it takes me 150 hours to build then at $10 per hour that’s cheaper than beer!

Edited by Smokeyr67
Vodka made me do it
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Well, I just today received my Border Models Lanc from Hannants, and the clear parts do not have any cracks or broken parts (if it matters, it was sent by Parcelforce Worldwide). The 'cold front' marks are there, but I don't think they're too noticeable, although I might be persuadable for buying any replacements that might come out. The kit is extremely detailed, as expected, and I shall no doubt spend the next week fiddling with it, and when I get my HKM Grand Slam Lanc, I shall closely compare the two. Given the size and complexity of the Bordernut (I rather like this portmanteau) kit, if I start work on it immediately, and don't stop for lunch, ever, I should have it done in ten or twenty years, just in time for the Earth to be wiped out by an asteroid.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

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An update on my cracked canopy problem. All reported to Hannants last week who informed Albion. Albion then contacted me and a replacement turned up yesterday - exceedingly well packed. As I know, you can't avoid 'cold front' problems but the canopy they sent is as good as it is going to get and, in my opinion, will be absolutely fine. I really aught to find a hard plastic box to put these 'good' sprues into now!

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24 minutes ago, Simon Cornes said:

An update on my cracked canopy problem. All reported to Hannants last week who informed Albion. Albion then contacted me and a replacement turned up yesterday - exceedingly well packed. As I know, you can't avoid 'cold front' problems but the canopy they sent is as good as it is going to get and, in my opinion, will be absolutely fine. I really aught to find a hard plastic box to put these 'good' sprues into now!

That’s good news, Simon. I completely agree with you on the separate box idea too!

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24 minutes ago, Simon Cornes said:

An update on my cracked canopy problem. All reported to Hannants last week who informed Albion. Albion then contacted me and a replacement turned up yesterday - exceedingly well packed. As I know, you can't avoid 'cold front' problems but the canopy they sent is as good as it is going to get and, in my opinion, will be absolutely fine. I really aught to find a hard plastic box to put these 'good' sprues into now!

That’s good news, Simon. I completely agree with you on the separate box idea too!

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Interesting, I had the WmW Lanc on my Hannants watch list. They emailed me to tell me they had stock, if I'd like to buy one. 

At that price, no thanks. 

Makes me wonder if there are not as many takers as they expected.....?

 

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1 minute ago, 224 Peter said:

Interesting, I had the WmW Lanc on my Hannants watch list. They emailed me to tell me they had stock, if I'd like to buy one. 

At that price, no thanks. 

Makes me wonder if there are not as many takers as they expected.....?

 

They don’t have many left. The 10% preorder discount may have helped a bit.

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The clear parts on my two HK Lancs are flawless , the WNWs/ Border one being a more hi-tech kit should surely have been , at least , equal .

Does it mean  the Border bods rushed the job , or weren`t up to WNWs standards ? .

I cancelled my back order when these reports started to appear . For that price I was expecting WNWs well known quality .

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29 minutes ago, Don149 said:

The clear parts on my two HK Lancs are flawless , the WNWs/ Border one being a more hi-tech kit should surely have been , at least , equal .

Does it mean  the Border bods rushed the job , or weren`t up to WNWs standards ? .

I cancelled my back order when these reports started to appear . For that price I was expecting WNWs well known quality .

I wonder if the two mouldings are the same thickness? I'm no plastic moulding expert and I don't know if the HKM kit has a separate canopy frame but I get the feeling that the Bordernut kit is at the limit of plastic injection moulding technology. If I saw a Bordernut Lanc built and knew nothing about the issues that are topical right now I probably wouldn't think there was anything wrong. Maybe we are looking for something perfect? I would say that it is Wingnut quality and I'd be interested to know how Richard Alexander would have tackled the canopy issue. They might have redesigned the mould and done something less ambitious but now that I have glazing without cracks I feel quite happy with the situation.

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