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A question for "Bunting Tossers"


davepb

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Hi, can anyone identify the flag at the mast head on this photograph of HMS Wear K-230. I presume the flag and pennants to starboard are K230. Looks like a good subject for weathering! I'm a little puzzled by the hull colour below the quaterdeck. Is it just shadow or camouflage? Doesn,t appear to match the suggested scheme.

 

92bc0d886f8a60535073350d16acccbb.jpg

 

This entry in U-boat net suggests a reason for the crowded decks!

"

30 Mar 1943
HMS Wear (T/Lt. C.J. Alldridge, RNR) picks up 97 men from the British merchant Nagara that was torpedoed and damaged by German U-boat U-404 about 425 miles northwest of Cape Finisterre in position 46°50'N, 16°40'W. The Nagara founders on 4 April 1943 in position 47°52'N, 14°03'W while in tow of the British rescue tug HMRT Dexterous.

HMS Wear also picks up 46 survivors from the British merchant Empire Bowman that was torpedoed and sunk by German U-boat U-404 about 425 miles northwest of Cape Finisterre in position 47°26'N, 15°53'W.

HMS Wear also picks up 103 survivors from the British merchant Umaria that was torpedoed and damaged by German U-boat U-662 about 425 miles northwest of Cape Finisterre in position 46°44'N, 16°38'W. Wear then scuttles the wreck of the Umaria with gunfire."

 

Dave

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I can't help much with the uppermost pennant but if I was to guess I'd say it was the code pennant.I would say you are correct with K-230 as the flag for Kilo used to be yellow over blue.

I think the reason why the decks look crowded is because the parts of ship are fallen in for entering/leaving harbour.

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43 minutes ago, Roger Newsome said:

I can't help much with the uppermost pennant but if I was to guess I'd say it was the code pennant.I would say you are correct with K-230 as the flag for Kilo used to be yellow over blue.

I think the reason why the decks look crowded is because the parts of ship are fallen in for entering/leaving harbour.

Yes, ship's company are fallen in for entry into harbour, but there are a lot of people "out of the rig of the day!" Ties in with the arrival of Convoy SL125 (http://www.naval-history.net/xDKEscorts15Fr-River3.htm)

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17 minutes ago, davepb said:

Yes, ship's company are fallen in for entry into harbour, but there are a lot of people "out of the rig of the day!" Ties in with the arrival of Convoy SL125 (http://www.naval-history.net/xDKEscorts15Fr-River3.htm)

Ah sorry, I see where you're coming from now. It's difficult to see them on my device.

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Difficult to tell from the photo even on a big monitor but even though she's at harbour stations and coming into harbour, she doesn't appear to have either Jackstaff or Ensign Staff rigged and I can't see her sea ensign on the stump mainmast so it's possible that the flag at the masthead could be the White Ensign.

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15 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Difficult to tell from the photo even on a big monitor but even though she's at harbour stations and coming into harbour, she doesn't appear to have either Jackstaff or Ensign Staff rigged and I can't see her sea ensign on the stump mainmast so it's possible that the flag at the masthead could be the White Ensign.

Looking at the picture under greater magnification, the Ensign is flying from the gaff on the mainmast, but is blowing away to starboard. There is a dark rectangle visible, which is the Union flag in the corner of the Ensign. The item at the top of the foremast turns out to be some sort of aerial fit, more visible on a later picture of HMS Wear. Here is a link to that picture advertised on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/rp17875-Royal-Navy-Warship-HMS-Wear-K230-built-1942-photo-6x4-/391904435762

 

Cheers, Dave

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22 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

I think that the rear of the hull is just dirty from vertical staining rather than a different colour.

 

Thanks for the photo as I'm intending to do Wear.

Hi Graham, are you going to build her with or without sweep gear? I'm going for the earlier fit as shown in the photo. I'm on a half promise from Mike at Starling models of sweep gear from his Algerine class. I can also recommend Brian Lavery's book "River Class Frigates and the Battle of the Atlantic".

 

Cheers, Dave

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I can't recall seeing the photo in the opening post before. But it can't date to 1943 due to the radar fit.

 

Wear completed in October 1942 with the standard Type 271 radar lantern on the bridge and minesweeping gear aft, as in the IWM photo below.

www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205121647

 

The E-bay photo is probably one of the best known of her, and shows her paying off (see the long pennant flying from the top of the foremast) by which time she has lost the Type 271 and gained Type 277 radar on the bridge and has lost the minesweeping gear.

 

The photo in the opening post has her part way between these two fits. She has Type 277 but retains the minesweeping gear (or at least the davits for it) aft. Type 277 didn't appear until early 1944 in battleships, cruisers and carriers and later still in new build Loch class frigates and Castle class corvettes. After that it was refitted in earlier ships such as the Rivers. It was to be a standard fit for all anti submarine frigates being sent to the Far East in 1945. I would date this photo to the early part of 1945. I agree with Graham that it is staining of the paintwork aft rather than any form of camouflage. It seems to coincide with those places where there were either depth charge throwers or racks for spare depth charges bolted to the quarterdeck.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/22/2018 at 4:42 PM, EwenS said:

I can't recall seeing the photo in the opening post before. But it can't date to 1943 due to the radar fit.

 

Wear completed in October 1942 with the standard Type 271 radar lantern on the bridge and minesweeping gear aft, as in the IWM photo below.

www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205121647

 

The E-bay photo is probably one of the best known of her, and shows her paying off (see the long pennant flying from the top of the foremast) by which time she has lost the Type 271 and gained Type 277 radar on the bridge and has lost the minesweeping gear.

 

The photo in the opening post has her part way between these two fits. She has Type 277 but retains the minesweeping gear (or at least the davits for it) aft. Type 277 didn't appear until early 1944 in battleships, cruisers and carriers and later still in new build Loch class frigates and Castle class corvettes. After that it was refitted in earlier ships such as the Rivers. It was to be a standard fit for all anti submarine frigates being sent to the Far East in 1945. I would date this photo to the early part of 1945. I agree with Graham that it is staining of the paintwork aft rather than any form of camouflage. It seems to coincide with those places where there were either depth charge throwers or racks for spare depth charges bolted to the quarterdeck.

 

Thanks Ewen,, time for a little more research!

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