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New questions about Spitfire Mk.XVIII’s what type of Rims 3-4 spoke ?


Corsairfoxfouruncle

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Hello all im looking for some info on RAF Units in the Middle east after the war. Im planning on doing a Tempest Mk.VI, and a Spitfire Mk.XVIII in the post war desert camouflage of Dk. Earth/Light Slate grey. The Tempest unit 213 Squadron will be from I believe Palestine. 

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The Spitfire unit is i think 208 Squadron ? Flying out of Egypt in 1949 ? 

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My main questions are Roundels and desert filters ? If anyone can include any other info on said units. That will be very greatly appreciated. 

 

Dennis

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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208 Squadron started receiving the Spitfire FR.18 in August 1946 and these replaced the Mk.IX, although it took until June 1947 to replace the last aircraft of this variant. They never had any Mk.XIV. The desert scheme was applied between end of July and September 1949. The Spitfires were replaced by Meteors in 1951

While wearing the scheme the roundels were of the standard postwar type, as shown in the Xtradecal sheet linked. Size was 45" overwing, 32" underwing and 36" on the fuselage.

213 received the Tempest in early 1947, replacing the Mustang. The unit moved to Egypt in 1948 from Palestine and introduced the desert scheme in the same timeframe as 208. This unit did not serve in Palestine with the desert scheme as all RAF units had by then moved to Egypt. In Dec. 1949 the first Vampire F.3s arrived and these had replaced the Tempest by early 1950.

Roundels were again standard postwar (what some call type D) and sizes were 50" overwing, 32"underwing and 36" on fuselage

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Thanks @Giorgio N I had been in the process of changing my original post. What are the differences in the Mk.XIV & XVIII ? Ive only read minor changes in the wing from a XIV to a XVIII ? Otherwise they’re very much a similar aircraft ? Im currently planning for some near future builds ? 

 

Dennis 

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Compared to a low back XIVe,  externally there were different panel lines on the wings, the 18 had a larger rudder (that however was also retrofitted on a number of XIVs) and the rear fuselage light was moved further back. All 18s also had standard wingtips while generally the XIVe had clipped ones. There may be other small details I forgot of course.

From a modelling point of view the only difficult part is the larger rudder, so starting from a kit of the 18 proper is of course easier. It's not guaranteed that any Mk.18 kit correctly features all the other differences, but at least the rudder should be there

Edited by Giorgio N
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Hello Dennis

Take a look at these two threads:

I have Fujimi Spitfire XIVe kit in process of conversion into Mk.18. So far I scratch-built low back part and obtained bubble canopy, separated rudder and lowered vertical fin, but I have not yet attempted to have a go at enlarged rudder. If you are not into conversions, there is (was?) a replacement resin Mk.18 rudder available, I believe by Freightdog. Cheers

Jure

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Hello @Giorgio N, @Jure Miljevic, & @Graham Boak ... I truly appreciate all the help i recieve from fellow Forum members. This will be my first true attempt at moderate conversions. Both the Spitfire from a XIV to a XVIII. Also the Tempest Mk.V to a MK.VI. I am attempting to convert the XIV-XVIII. I know about the rudder. The kit im working with already has the bigger rudder( AZ/Legato). The instructions had me remove the original and replace with a slightly larger Rudder. Was originally confused as to why, but did it. Now i understand why, as this was the retrofitted 18 rudder. I think i have satisfactory drawings to attempt a rescribe of the panel lines particularly on the wing. I will have to re-add the original tips as i originally was build a clipped wing XIV. Not a big deal as i need to rescribe so i will nned to re-sand the wings anyhow. The camera windows are already scribed in the lower fuselage. Just need to drill them and the Fuselage ones out. 

     I know about modifying the wings on my Tempest Mk.V to a Mk.VI With oil coolers in the leading edge of the wings. I have the 4-views of these already and should be able to get these done. Im hoping this will work out in the end. I really do want to do this Camouflage scheme. Anyone know of a Tamiya/Vallejo color mix to get Light slate grey ? I have the other two colors in the paint rack? I was thinking Tamiya light sea grey mixed with a few drops of Dk. green to get the Grey/Green color ? If anyone can offer any help on anything im possibly missing ? 

 

Dennis

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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On 9/16/2018 at 9:51 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hello @Giorgio N, @Jure Miljevic, & @Graham Boak ... I truly appreciate all the help i recieve from fellow Forum members. This will be my first true attempt at moderate conversions. Both the Spitfire from a XIV to a XVIII. Also the Tempest Mk.V to a MK.VI. I am attempting to convert the XIV-XVIII. I know about the rudder. The kit im working with already has the bigger rudder( AZ/Legato). The instructions had me remove the original and replace with a slightly larger Rudder. Was originally confused as to why, but did it. Now i understand why, as this was the retrofitted 18 rudder. I think i have satisfactory drawings to attempt a rescribe of the panel lines particularly on the wing. I will have to re-add the original tips as i originally was build a clipped wing XIV. Not a big deal as i need to rescribe so i will nned to re-sand the wings anyhow. The camera windows are already scribed in the lower fuselage. Just need to drill them and the Fuselage ones out. 

     I know about modifying the wings on my Tempest Mk.V to a Mk.VI With oil coolers in the leading edge of the wings. I have the 4-views of these already and should be able to get these done. Im hoping this will work out in the end. I really do want to do this Camouflage scheme. Anyone know of a Tamiya/Vallejo color mix to get Light slate grey ? I have the other two colors in the paint rack? I was thinking Tamiya light sea grey mixed with a few drops of Dk. green to get the Grey/Green color ? If anyone can offer any help on anything im possibly missing ? 

 

Dennis

As well as a Spitfire XVIII rear fuselage/fin and rudder conversion Freightdog also produce a Tempest VI conversion set which might make the process a little easier. 

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On 9/16/2018 at 9:51 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Anyone know of a Tamiya/Vallejo color mix to get Light slate grey ? I have the other two colors in the paint rack? I was thinking Tamiya light sea grey mixed with a few drops of Dk. green to get the Grey/Green color ? If anyone can offer any help on anything im possibly missing ? 

 

Dennis

 

I don't know a mix but you can get an idea from this - https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.asp - select "Other BS colours" in the Choose Range drop-down and "BS639 - Light Slate Grey" in the Choose Colour one. I can't guarantee this is the wartime shade but it's the only one I can find. The other caveat is that how you see it will depend on calibration of your monitor / printer as well as lighting conditions.

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What scale are you building, 1/72? If so, Matchbox has (had) a simple but very good Tempest VI off the shelf- if you can find one.... IIRC, the Tempest sand filter fairing protruded from the rear of the radiator housing on the fuselage underside. Do you have the Bentley drawings?

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Hello @rossm ... Your link is now in my Permanent files, I'm sure that site will get a lot of traffic from me. 

 

Hello @tempestfan ... Im aware of the Matchbox II/VI kit. Sadly i do not have one. I do have the Bentley Drawings thanks to another member that e-mailed them to me. I have both an old (1979) Heller release and an Academy release’s in 1/72 both of the Mk.V. I can use either but the Heller looks to be a better candidate, the panel lines seem better defined. I should also note that i havent seen a Matchbox kit in the Chicago area since the later 80’s or very early 90’s. Im also aware of the after market resin kits to convert a Mk.V. If i had the $£€ I would just order one of these or look for an Matchbox kit on the 2nd hand sites. Unfortunately I just dont have the $£€ in my budget for either option ?

     In your opinion, Do you think its to big a challenge ? It seems doable to me, however im not a Tempest/Tiffy expert ? If my research is correct. A Mk.VI is a Mk.V with the scratch build of the sand filter? Also a scratch build of both the wing carburetor and oil cooler housings ? Is there any other differences between a “V” & a “VI” that im unaware of ? 

 

Dennis

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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I think a conversion of the Heller should be feasible, especially if you have the Bentley drawings. I just thought about the MB because it’s very accurate (if the Bentley drawings are, as it fits them almost perfectly) and used to be easily available, but then it makes no sense spending big bucks on transatlantic shipment even if you could spare them.

 I have two or three built „junk box queens“ that I one day intend to rebuild, but that doesn’t help you, either...

Yes, the main difference between V and VI are the relocated carb intake and cooler, and I think the interior of the radiator is different somewhat, but IIRC pics with that area clearly visible are hard to find, usually either the angle of the pic is „wrong“, or it’s in the shadow, or a prop blade is in the way. Or all of the above. Not sure if Bentley is all that clear on that aspect either.

Not sure if all VI‘s had the filter, but it would seem logical as it was a dedicated trop variant. The fairing is missing from the MB anyway, and the Heller has a somewhat superior u/c.

It‘s more than ten years now that I did some prep work for the Queens - time to pick up...

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Hello @JOHN ELLIS ... Thank you for providing the link. I suspect that is exactly what i need. Sadly it just doesnt work for me. I tried multiple times but everytime i attempt to open the file it just repeats the same page, the page showing the zipfiles. I suspect its my end that is the culprit, as my only access to the internet is a cellular phone. My Laptop was the 3rd and last computer i owned and it commited Seppuku (Ritual Suicide) in 2013. I will attempt to open them using the link, next time i have access to a real computer. Many thank for providing the link. 

 

Dennis

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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New question for the Spitfire experts, im sure im missing something here ? Question however is with Mk.18 Spitfire’s which was the standard rim 3 or 4 spoke, my kit comes with both ?  The master drawing i have shows 3 spoke rims so im assuming thats correct but would like confirmation ? 

 

Dennis

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57 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

New question for the Spitfire experts, im sure im missing something here ? Question however is with Mk.18 Spitfire’s which was the standard rim 3 or 4 spoke, my kit comes with both ?  The master drawing i have shows 3 spoke rims so im assuming thats correct but would like confirmation ? 

 

Dennis

Dennis,

 

Spitfire FR18's had  had 3-spoke wheels. Didn't see that anybody had answered your question. Here's a link to a good photo of a Mk XVIIIe wheel. (If you will PM me with what Matchbox Tempest parts you need to do your project, I will send them to you, as I have 3 kits and have no plans to  build them all- they are pretty much parts mules.)

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/525373112776591059/

Mike

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I think that like XIXs, 21s and the first few 22s, the XVIIIs started off with 4-spokers and were replaced by 3-spokers later in their lives. And judging by the XVI and the 24 at Hendon, the 3 spokers on the 21-24s were bigger in diameter than those on the old-wing variants. I'm doing a Sword 1/72 XVIII now and will use 3-spokers for the 1949 period.

 

Justin

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