RNZAF P-40e questions

[Magua87]

Hi, team. 

 

I'm trying to tap into some more of the international knowledge on here with more RNZAF questions. 

 

I've stripped an old Hasegawa P-40e kit of its olive drab paint as part of a restoration job. I'm interested in building an aircraft which sported NZ Blue Sea Grey camouflage. I've been trying to research colour schemes over the last few days and I've gone down the rabbit hole. 

 

I came across this image of a p-40 at the RNZAF museum at Wigram and was inspired. The aircraft seems to be sporting NZ Blue Sea Grey, Foilage Green, and Duck Egg Blue (DuPont's colour for the RAF's Sky). I don't think the aircraft was ever displayed in these colours and it now sports an olive drab scheme in the display hall.

 

 

Ok, the questions. 

 

 

I'm interested in building NZ3027 since we have images and a drawing of the aircraft (see thread below). NZ3027 was written off in February 1944 after an accident in January (link here). The images in the thread below show the aircraft at the time of its accident. Charles Darby (RNZAF, The First Decade), illustrates this aircraft with standard RAF Dark Green, but with NZ Blue Sea Grey replacing the RAF brown paint. However, at this point of the war, wouldn't it be safe to assume that this aircraft should have had the green replaced with Foilage Green? I've gleaned this from various boards and WIP threads, but mostly from @LDSModeller here at Finescale.

 

Calling @LDSModeller and anyone else who might have some info on the topic. Do we know how individual airframes were painted or do we have to make general assumptions for time periods? If we do have any solid information on other airframes with the NZ Blue Sea Grey/Foilage Green/Duck Egg Blue I'd be very interested to know.

 

 

Second question, hopefully an easier one. I've touched up the interior green in the cockpit, but I'm not sure what colour to paint the area behind the cockpit. I've left the olive drab in this area for now. 

 

 

[Rabbit Leader]

@Magua87

There's a P-40 build and discussion about this Pacific Scheme here - link

I'm sure Alan will be on shortly to discuss this further as I too am also interested by this lovely scheme.

 

Cheers.. Dave

[LDSModeller]

2 hours ago, Magua87 said:

Hi, team. 

 

I'm trying to tap into some more of the international knowledge on here with more RNZAF questions. 

 

I've stripped an old Hasegawa P-40e kit of its olive drab paint as part of a restoration job. I'm interested in building an aircraft which sported NZ Blue Sea Grey camouflage. I've been trying to research colour schemes over the last few days and I've gone down the rabbit hole. 

 

I came across this image of a p-40 at the RNZAF museum at Wigram and was inspired. The aircraft seems to be sporting NZ Blue Sea Grey, Foilage Green, and Duck Egg Blue (DuPont's colour for the RAF's Sky). I don't think the aircraft was ever displayed in these colours and it now sports an olive drab scheme in the display hall.

 

 

Ok, the questions. 

 

 

I'm interested in building NZ3027 since we have images and a drawing of the aircraft (see thread below). NZ3027 was written off in February 1944 after an accident in January (link here). The images in the thread below show the aircraft at the time of its accident. Charles Darby (RNZAF, The First Decade), illustrates this aircraft with standard RAF Dark Green, but with NZ Blue Sea Grey replacing the RAF brown paint. However, at this point of the war, wouldn't it be safe to assume that this aircraft should have had the green replaced with Foilage Green? I've gleaned this from various boards and WIP threads, but mostly from @LDSModeller here at Finescale.

 

Calling @LDSModeller and anyone else who might have some info on the topic. Do we know how individual airframes were painted or do we have to make general assumptions for time periods? If we do have any solid information on other airframes with the NZ Blue Sea Grey/Foilage Green/Duck Egg Blue I'd be very interested to know.

 

 

Second question, hopefully an easier one. I've touched up the interior green in the cockpit, but I'm not sure what colour to paint the area behind the cockpit. I've left the olive drab in this area for now. 

 

 

OK, What I'm about to say may offend some folk and Whilst modellers can build

how they like, I wouldn't use the Osprey Photo of NZ3027 in the attached as anything other than

the builders interpretation, which given more recent information is erroneous in a number

of ways. My other Gripe is WHY do modellers insist on weathering RNZAF Aircraft to look like

it's been sitting in the RNZAF Rukuhia Graveyard for 20 years+. New Zealand has a temperate climate,

we're not at higher Latitudes like the Solomon's etc - The Roundels - NEVER looked like that 

 

Since my comments on Finescale, I've also learnt a lot more, after further research.

so don't take that as gospel either

Also Whilst we are ever grateful to Charles Darby (who I have actually met with) for his book

"RNZAF The First Decade", we now know there are errors in there. - So don't take everything in there

as Gospel either.

 

If you look at the photo below of 3 P40E-1's of 14 (F) Fighter Squadron (2 OTU ) Ohakea circa early 1943

the middle one NZ3035 (HQ-O) has had the Dark Earth recently repainted in NZ Sea Blue Grey and the

newer RNZAF Pacific Roundel on the wing (From recent discussion with Expert at RNZAF Museum)

(Official RNZAF - Photo used for illustration only)

The rest of the colours are DuPont Dark Green and lower DuPont Sky Type S (a Pale Blue colour with greenish tinge)

many people will argue that the lower colour was a light grey- If you look at these swatches in my collection,

(received post Finescale post), which are off an RNZAF P40E-1, you can see the actual DuPont colors -the lower colour is not a

light grey or any grey of any description. (Actually a Duck Egg Blue)

Bare in mind also, that 15 (F) Fighter Squadron/16 (F) Fighter Squadrons (Solomon's) flew P40E-1's

with the same scheme as my swatches, which 15 Squadron obtained off the 68th PS in Tonga October 1942, but

didn't get the NZ Sea Blue Grey repaints in the forward theatre

 

The Colours profile you are after I'm assuming is the similar to the RNZAF Museum Restoration?

Just a Caution, that scheme is (as I understand it) is representative of what RNZAF aircraft P40K's and

Hudson's wore overseas to the forward area (Solomon's), and a very recent discussion (as in the last day or so)

with the Resident RNZAF Museum expert seems to suggest, that the green on the K's may well be Olive drab - watch this space

The Hudson's simply had the Dark Earth painted over with NZ Sea Blue Grey

For a New Zealand based P40E-1 simply replace the Dark Earth with NZ Sea Blue Grey

 

As far as the application of NZ Foliage Green goes, I know some (not all) P40's received re-paints after the RNZAF P40

fleet arrived back from overseas to New Zealand. Whether NZ3027 had received that prior to January 1944's accident

can't say?

 

To your cockpit query, in the above photo of the 3 14 Sqn P40's NZ3035 (HQ-O) appears to have the rear quarter

panels in the Original Dark Earth. Whether the rest of the P40E-1 were left like that after re-paints? Personally in IMHO

yes!

Not part of your query, but address it none the less - I do not believe the RNZAF P40E-1's wore US Interior

Green in the cockpit. One of the Tongan P40E-1's survived the war, and I have seen a more modern photos

that shows the cockpit bulkhead in a vivid Blue Green colour (remember these were orders for RAF), much like

these RNZAF Hudson remains

(Photo used permission NR Mines)

 

Hope that helps?

 

Regards

 

Alan

Edited September 9, 2018 by LDSModeller

[Magua87]

6 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

Hope that helps?

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

Alan! You're a star! You need to put all this info down in a book somewhere. 

 

A follow up question or two if you wouldn't mind?

 

NZ3035. I presume the roundel would sit in the same place on the port side of the fuselage and the letters would be reversed and be seen as HQ-Q as read from left to right? Am I safe in assuming that the lighter colour in the pictures is the blue? 

 

Cockpits; any idea of a name for the vivid blue green? I'll probably stick with green now that I've touched up my cockpit. 

 

Out of interest, what colours do you use for these schemes? I'm looking at Gunze paints.

 

H42 for the Blue Sea Grey (I've been scratching my head for ages about this one),

H309 for the Du Pont Dark Green,

H67 for the Duck Egg Blue (Gunze equivalent of XF-23). 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Magua87

[Magua87]

Another quick question while you're here. Any thoughts on the colours used on MOTAT's Hudson. I've got one of these on the go, too. I presume these are meant to represent the Du Pont colours? 

 

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000696655.html

 

Looking more closely at my tin of H67, I might pick up some XF-23 instead. Though it's pretty hard to tell the real difference without spraying them for a comparison. 

[LDSModeller]

1 hour ago, Magua87 said:

 

 

A follow up question or two if you wouldn't mind?

 

NZ3035. I presume the roundel would sit in the same place on the port side of the fuselage and the letters would be reversed and be seen as HQ-Q as read from left to right? Am I safe in assuming that the lighter colour in the pictures is the blue? 

 

Cockpits; any idea of a name for the vivid blue green? I'll probably stick with green now that I've touched up my cockpit. 

 

Out of interest, what colours do you use for these schemes? I'm looking at Gunze paints.

 

H42 for the Blue Sea Grey (I've been scratching my head for ages about this one),

H309 for the Du Pont Dark Green,

H67 for the Duck Egg Blue (Gunze equivalent of XF-23). 

 

1 hour ago, Magua87 said:

Another quick question while you're here. Any thoughts on the colours used on MOTAT's Hudson. I've got one of these on the go, too. I presume these are meant to represent the Du Pont colours? 

 

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000696655.html

 

Looking more closely at my tin of H67, I might pick up some XF-23 instead. Though it's pretty hard to tell the real difference without spraying them for a comparison. 

Re the HQ-O - yes, as you have written, I actually have NZ3308 HQ-B in above photo (which incidentally I have a build also

underway) showing that orientation of the codes (but it's on another Hard drive) , Bear in mind that the GTS (Gunnery Training

School) was also at Ohakea had HQ Codes, but they were Yellow. 2 OTU/14 (F) Fighter Squadron codes would be Sky

 

My Build  of NZ308 Taken a few years ago - Ignore the Green Blue colour, failed attempt before I knew what actuarial colour looked like

 

 

The lighter colour being the Blue Good Question - in re-looking at the photo, it also possible that

the Dark green has been touched up as well -also notice the code HQ is lower on NZ3035 than NZ3008 (HQ-B)

 

As far as the Cockpit Blue Green, I have yet to see an off the rack colour that is close in comparison, IMHO, I believe

the colour is DuPont 71-036 Light Green (US version of RAF Cockpit Green).

FWIW I have mixed my own and managed a reasonable facsimile  as with the DuPont Dark Green also.

 

I've not used Gunze in a while, but have seen the actual color H67, and IMHO it would work as the Duck Egg Blue might need

a little white, as the real colour is a "Pale Blue"

 

Re your MOTAT query - not sure what Colours MOTAT used, - I can't confirm whether Lockheed even used

DuPont paints. AFAIK Lockheed's plants were all Western side of the US, and DuPont was Eastern.

who ever Lockheed used, they would have been similar to DuPont in colour.

 

XF23 (Tamiya)? If so again a reasonable colour, again may need tweaking (not used it my self)

 

Hope that helps?

 

Alan

Edited September 9, 2018 by LDSModeller

[Silver Fox]

Alan,

 

 thanks for all your recent posts I have learnt sooooooooooo much. I often looked at that  photo and wondered about my eyesight as I perceive different shades but never considered they had been repainted. Theroundel should have altered me.

[LDSModeller]

31 minutes ago, Silver Fox said:

Alan,

 

 thanks for all your recent posts I have learnt sooooooooooo much. I often looked at that  photo and wondered about my eyesight as I perceive different shades but never considered they had been repainted. Theroundel should have altered me.

You're most welcome Glad to pass on information.

Though, I think I may have worn out my welcome with the RNZAF Museum,

having pestered them so much

 

Regards

 

Alan

[occa]

Very interesting discussion again !!

To me the NZ Pacific scheme highly resembles the MAP Tropical Sea Scheme anyways.

 

Now are there halfway reliable color charts anywhere on the net that include the NZ Pacific colors ?

[LDSModeller]

8 hours ago, occa said:

Very interesting discussion again !!

To me the NZ Pacific scheme highly resembles the MAP Tropical Sea Scheme anyways.

 

Now are there halfway reliable color charts anywhere on the net that include the NZ Pacific colors ?

My current thoughts are more a Pacific Version of TSS (Temperate Sea Scheme), where the Green is

representative of Dark Slate Gray, NZ Sea Blue Gray representative of Extra Dark Sea Gray, and Sky is well

Sky
 

late 1944 (Nov-Dec) to wars end, the RNZAF flew in the SW Pacific, 4 Sunderland Mk III transports in

TSS.

 

Now to your query re colour charts - The only ones that give you any reliable information on colours and use

are the following:

Set up by Dave Homewood owner of RNZAF Proboards. (Dave is ex RNZAF)

WWII RNZAF Colours

 

From Pete Mossong's site

Pete Mossong RNZAF paint List

 

One last thought - the term NZ Pacific Green may well be a "Colloquial" term much like

"Pacific Blue" is a colloquial term for NZ Sea Blue Gray

 

Regards

 

Alan

[72modeler]

Thank you so much, Alan, for the two outstanding RNZAF paint references! I am now inspired to do one of my P-40E's as HQ-O! One question- the cove under the rear quarter windows would be OD or the corresponding camouflage color? As these windows were easily detachable, my guess is that this area was probably painted to match the surrounding area, like the USAAF aircraft. What do you think? Can't wait to see the restored example in her new colors- hope we get a walkaround at some point!

Mike

 

Kiwi's uber alles!

[LDSModeller]

6 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Thank you so much, Alan, for the two outstanding RNZAF paint references! I am now inspired to do one of my P-40E's as HQ-O! One question- the cove under the rear quarter windows would be OD or the corresponding camouflage color? As these windows were easily detachable, my guess is that this area was probably painted to match the surrounding area, like the USAAF aircraft. What do you think? Can't wait to see the restored example in her new colors- hope we get a walkaround at some point!

Mike

 

Kiwi's uber alles!

Hi Mike,

The rear quarter panels on the RNZAF P40E-1's (Brand new) would be Dark Earth, as the paint

went up into the Rear Quarter panels, as Curtiss painted them.

 

This ex RNZAF P40E-1 has had NZ Sea Blue Grey applied over the Dark Earth, you can make it

out on the the area behind the quarter panel. The Quarter panel does not appear to have been

repainted (at least on this particular airframe) As to whether it was done on all P40E-1 repaints?

Looking at photo's of RNZAF P40E-1's that were painted in Foliage Green, the rear quarter panels appear

to Be Dark Earth.

 

As a FYI also note colour of engine bearers looks to be silver or Aluminium paint much like the RAF Mk I Spitfire or

Hurricane, not Chromate green or yellow....

 

RNZAF P40E-1 Fuselage

 

Hope that helps?

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Magua87]

On 9/9/2018 at 1:14 PM, LDSModeller said:

If you look at the photo below of 3 P40E-1's of 14 (F) Fighter Squadron (2 OTU ) Ohakea circa early 1943

the middle one NZ3035 (HQ-O) has had the Dark Earth recently repainted in NZ Sea Blue Grey and the

newer RNZAF Pacific Roundel on the wing (From recent discussion with Expert at RNZAF Museum)

(Official RNZAF - Photo used for illustration only)

 

 

Well, I'm nearing the decal stage for my P-40 (NZ3035). Alan, I was wondering if your discussion with the RNZAF museum covered whether or note NZ3035 had Pacific rounds on the underside of the wing too? 

[LDSModeller]

4 minutes ago, Magua87 said:

Well, I'm nearing the decal stage for my P-40 (NZ3035). Alan, I was wondering if your discussion with the RNZAF museum covered whether or note NZ3035 had Pacific rounds on the underside of the wing too? 

Um - I didn't actually ask the question, but I would say, if the upper wings

had the newer Roundel, then the lower wings would do so also.

 

About this time Senior RNZAF personnel were meeting/ going to meet

their US counterparts in the forward areas to discuss application of the new Roundel

to be worn by RNZAF aircraft, so I would say with quite some certainty that the

RNZAF Brass in New Zealand would want to see the full wing application.

 

Long story short, Yes, New roundels lower wing

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Magua87]

On 7/1/2019 at 9:47 PM, LDSModeller said:

Long story short, Yes, New roundels lower wing

 

Regards

 

Alan

I'm doing a poor job of collating all my questions for you. Any idea what size the roundel is on the fuselage? And the wing while I'm asking. 

 

The fuselage roundel seems to be smaller than all the C1 spares I've got for various Spitfires. I may even need to buy the dreaded DK decals set just for the correct sized P-40 roundels. 

[LDSModeller]

19 hours ago, Magua87 said:

I'm doing a poor job of collating all my questions for you. Any idea what size the roundel is on the fuselage? And the wing while I'm asking. 

 

The fuselage roundel seems to be smaller than all the C1 spares I've got for various Spitfires. I may even need to buy the dreaded DK decals set just for the correct sized P-40 roundels. 

Hi,

 

For the fuselage Roundels, they will be the ones applied by Curtiss

in DuPont Insignia colours - I have a Technical Order for the P 40

tucked away - will need to hunt it out to confirm sizes

The Wing Roundels (new) appear to be 72", again I will need to

confirm that

 

To be honest I don't know if the DK Decals will give you the correct

Roundel sizes......

 

Regards

 

Alan

Edited July 18, 2019 by LDSModeller

[Magua87]

35 minutes ago, LDSModeller said:

To be honest I don't know if the DK Decals will give you the correct

Roundel sizes......

 

This is what I have to work with in my spares

 

Smaller = Academy spare from the P-40M/N kit. Larger = Sword Spitfire

 

Academy

 

Sword

 

DK Decals for comparison. 

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LYwJGiOtVPY/W3qAk6srguI/AAAAAAAAReU/kgp7m4ry1joHQIKCVSy5R4J2wK8f7yTmACLcBGAs/s1600/_DSC1733.jpg

 

Comparing with the three ship formation higher up in the thread; I think the Academy is too small, the Sword too big, DK might have it right. 

[LDSModeller]

43 minutes ago, Magua87 said:

Comparing with the three ship formation higher up in the thread; I think the Academy is too small, the Sword too big, DK might have it right. 

Done some checking and the found the following - see photo for reference

 

 

36 inch Fuselage Roundel - 1/72 12.7mm

 

RNZAF Pacific Roundel 48 inch with the following dimensions

 

Blue: 48in/White:16in/Blue:12in - 1/72 Blue:16.93mm/White: 5.64mm/Blue: 4.23mm

 

You can measure your Fuselage Roundels shown above and see which is best fit

 

Don't have the DK Decals so can't comment on size

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Magua87]

1 hour ago, LDSModeller said:

You can measure your Fuselage Roundels shown above and see which is best fit

 

The random Sword decals are the winner (or close enough). 

 

I think I'll raid my Ventura Lockheed Ventura decals for some 48 inch roundels. Will have to get the scissors out to get rid of those pesky white bars to get four decals. The blue in the Ventura Dauntless decals look a little light for my liking. 

 

Thanks again!

Edited July 18, 2019 by Magua87

[Magua87]

On 7/17/2019 at 9:41 PM, LDSModeller said:

 

RNZAF Pacific Roundel 48 inch with the following dimensions

 

Now that my P40e is nearing completion (I'll get some photos up when done), I'm eyeing up the P-40Ns I have in the stash. 

 

I'm using Ventura sheet V7277. Now, I notice compared to my Lockheed Ventura decals, the blue is much lighter on the roundel. I've got their Corsair sheet too, V7285, and on the Ventura website for those corsair decals they talk about NZ repainted roundels being a lighter shade (referencing Peter Mossong). I presume the same reasoning explains the P-40N sheet"s lighter shade of roundel. 

http://www.thescale.info/news/publish/RNZAF_Corsair-correct-blue-roundels.shtml

 

I bring this up as I've seen other threads where people are adamant there was a single RNZAF roundel colour, in NZ and the islands. Any thoughts? 

[LDSModeller]

51 minutes ago, Magua87 said:

Now that my P40e is nearing completion (I'll get some photos up when done), I'm eyeing up the P-40Ns I have in the stash. 

 

I'm using Ventura sheet V7277. Now, I notice compared to my Lockheed Ventura decals, the blue is much lighter on the roundel. I've got their Corsair sheet too, V7285, and on the Ventura website for those corsair decals they talk about NZ repainted roundels being a lighter shade (referencing Peter Mossong). I presume the same reasoning explains the P-40N sheet"s lighter shade of roundel. 

http://www.thescale.info/news/publish/RNZAF_Corsair-correct-blue-roundels.shtml

 

I bring this up as I've seen other threads where people are adamant there was a single RNZAF roundel colour, in NZ and the islands. Any thoughts? 

I would suggest looking at this Rare Movie, shot by the USMC during WWII which

features RNZAF P40N's about 6:30 min in. Note the Dark Blue colour of the Roundels. (especially wings)

 

USMC movie with RNZAF P40N's

 

Pretty definitive I think that the P 40N Roundel Colour on the Ventura decals is soooo wrong.

 

I have Ventura Decals too and IMHO their caveats and philosophy for their colour usage

is well.........

And their Research......., OT on the P40's but I am building an RNZAF SBD-4 and

one of their Roundel sets for SBD-4's in the Islands, is missing the Wing Roundel bars.

If you actually look at a photo of the actual aircraft there are Bars on the wings - totally missed

by Ventura!!! (Decal Sheet V48100)

Unfortunately their Product...... their call! Unfortunately it also continues to perpetuate the Myths about

"Light Blue" coloured RNZAF Roundels etc etc.

On another note, I have seen a photo of an actual RNZAF Roundel from WWII in colour (so 70+ years old)

that looks nothing like the "Supposed" Weathered look these folk and others pretend to justify.

 

Your model and all, but I won't use Ventura's decals with light blue, and if I do, I would repaint them

the correct colour - Dark Blue

 

HTH

Regards

 

Alan

Edited July 31, 2019 by LDSModeller

[Gazontipede]

Alan, do you have any recommendations as to aftermarket decal sets that have a better representation of RNZAF roundels with the darker blue?

To try and stick vaguely with the thread topic, for P-40's say?

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

[LDSModeller]

45 minutes ago, Gazontipede said:

Alan, do you have any recommendations as to aftermarket decal sets that have a better representation of RNZAF roundels with the darker blue?

To try and stick vaguely with the thread topic, for P-40's say?

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

Hi Richard,

 

Any particular scale you're interested in?

 

If you like Magua87 above, are into 1/72 scale then the only ones that would fit

(and depending what Mk P40 you plan on - you would need to make some modifications)

is the Ventura set for Gloria Lyons V7286 (P40N)

The Colour Blue is pretty close I think, but to do earlier P40's such as P40E-1's (Tongan)

flown in Guadalcanal etc, P40K's/M's you would need to remove the white bars (Wings and fuselage)

touch up the Fuselage yellow and find RNZAF 8 inch serials (Ventura actually do those, but you need to

know the actual font type)

Ventura V7286 Gloria Lyons

 

 

In 1/48 Scale  Nothing really - though there are some RNZAF F4U-1 Roundels the correct colour

You can check them out in this Link

Ventura 1/48 RNZAF Roundels

 

Old Models do RNZAF Decals, but he falls into the same trap with the wrong colours

in instances too

Old Models WWII RNZAF Decals

 

Montex Masks do a version, of course you would have to paint them on

(closest colour would be Humbrol 25 - touch of black would darken it ever so slightly)

Montex P40

 

Regards

 

Alan

Edited August 1, 2019 by LDSModeller

[Magua87]

18 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

 

USMC movie with RNZAF 

Pretty definitive I think that the P 40N Roundel Colour on the Ventura decals is soooo wrong.

Sorry, I should have specified, I'm looking at the sheet for P-40Ns based in New Zealand. In which case I believe there was an "identity blue" used for the roundels for training aircraft. Or is this another misconception or something that's recently been corrected through research? 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Magua87

[LDSModeller]

Just now, Magua87 said:

Sorry, I should have specified, I'm looking at the sheet for P-40Ns based in New Zealand. In which case I believe there was an "identity blue" used for the roundels. Or is this another misconception or something that's recently been corrected through research? 

Returning P40's circa early-mid 1944 that had operated in the Forward operational areas

would have the Darker Blue Roundels (E-1's K/M/N)

Those that received a repaint in Foliage Green/NZ Sky Grey probably IMO retained the Dark Blue

For those BOC in New Zealand...... I'm in two minds, and to be honest.

I haven't delved too much into the colours of New Zealand based Aircraft Roundels however

this is info from the RNZAF Museum

Quote

Yes there is a colour standard, or rather a stores reference, in N.Z.A.P. 130 dated Feb 1945. It reads as follows. Stores Ref: 33b/164, B.A.L.M. Ref: S13-044, Description: Matt Blue Iden Colour. This equates to FS 35056  or BSC 381c 110, Roundel Blue.

The Colour 35056 is as I stated above pretty much Humbrol 25, you can check below in the link

FS 35056

The BSC number is a little greyer, but still Dark Blue

The other issue to consider, is that RNZAF aircraft departing to the forward areas had the Dark Blue Roundels

painted on in New Zealand circa 1942 -43 - to me having two different colours for Roundels........ seems counter intuitive....

 

Regards

 

Alan