Messerschmitt Me-163B Komet colours?

[Smudge]

Just trying to work out what colours to use on my 1/72 Komet. There seems to be a great deal of variation in the colours used on these little fighters, at least judging by the photographs that I have found online and in a few books that I have.

I am trying to go with the colours suggested in the old Airfix kit, which are:

 

Underside M25 (I am going with RLM76 Lichtblau)

Top M17 Bronze Green and M21 Light Olive. (??!!)

 

I am struggling with the topside greens. I am leaning towards RLM82 Lichtgrun and RLM83 Dunkelgrun.

 

Am I close? Any help appreciated, thank guys.

[72modeler]

This might help...

Mike

 

https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/me163/camouflage.htm

[Troy Smith]

11 hours ago, Smudge said:

Just trying to work out what colours to use on my 1/72 Komet. There seems to be a great deal of variation in the colours used on these little fighters, at least judging by the photographs that I have found online and in a few books that I have.

I am trying to go with the colours suggested in the old Airfix kit, which are:

 

Underside M25 (I am going with RLM76 Lichtblau)

Top M17 Bronze Green and M21 Light Olive. (??!!)

 

I am struggling with the topside greens. I am leaning towards RLM82 Lichtgrun and RLM83 Dunkelgrun.

 

Am I close? Any help appreciated, thank guys.

Ok, pick a actual documented example.... The Me 163 that was at Point Cook in Australia was until repainted in the late 70's, in original paint and had been waxed

https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/me163/australia.htm

 

Quote

The aircraft were both delivered to Point Cook. Tom Gilbert was in the RAAF at that time and recalled taking the Komet out of its shipping crate in 1971. He was told that the aircraft had been packed in 1946 and this was the first time it had been out. The packing case had been used as a hiding place for many years as they found old beer cans (empty) and playing cards in there! The Komet was then assembled. Several of the instruments as well as the generator were gone. But the aircraft was generally in good condition. This Komet was the last one around in original colors.

 

 

 

Quote

To summarize an extended but highly rewarding line of investigation, it can now be stated that the Point Cook Me 163B-1a was, until repainted in late-1976, probably the most authentic if not the only specimen of a surviving Luftwaffe fighter still left in its original German 81/82/76 finish" [Note that at that time RLM81 was identified as Braunviolett or Dunkelgrün FS 24087, and RLM82 was Dunkelgrün FS 34096]

"The yellowish-green color on the fin was only primer paint used as camouflage"

 

 

There are a variety of colour photos, Plus details from noted Luftwaffe researchers,  but read the whole page, not intended to @72modeler link to the same site...

 

HTH

T

 

PS Airfix paint numbers.... Ah nostalgia 

[72modeler]

6 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

To summarize an extended but highly rewarding line of investigation, it can now be stated that the Point Cook Me 163B-1a was, until repainted in late-1976, probably the most authentic if not the only specimen of a surviving Luftwaffe fighter still left in its original German 81/82/76 finish"

Troy is correct- I have the Monogram reference works on Luftwaffe camouflage as well as the Me163, and the Point Cook Komet is the only surviving example that was in unrestored original paint until 1976- why, oh why, did they repaint it? I didn't refer Smudge to either book, as they have been OOP for so long, it would be doubtful he could find one at a price that wouldn't equal our national debt. The Valiant Wings reference book on the Komet would be a very useful modeling and painting resource, if Smudge wanted to spend the money for a reference book for just one model. (All of you  besides me that have done so, raise your right hand- thought so!)

Mike

[Smudge]

Hi Mike and Troy, thank you both very much for the links and helpful information. I have had a good read and also managed to find a few other links and info on the 'net.

 

The aircraft I am interested in is werk no. 190599 white 10 of 2/JG 400, as depicted in the Airfix kit. 

 

It would seem from all the information available that this aircraft was finished in 76/81/82, so that's what I will go with.

 

Thank you, Guys.

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, Smudge said:

Hi Mike and Troy, thank you both very much for the links and helpful information. I have had a good read and also managed to find a few other links and info on the 'net.

 

The aircraft I am interested in is werk no. 190599 white 10 of 2/JG 400, as depicted in the Airfix kit. 

 

It would seem from all the information available that this aircraft was finished in 76/81/82, so that's what I will go with.

 

Thank you, Guys.

In my copy of the Valiant Wings Me-163 monograph, this Komet is featured as a color profile and a supporting b&w photo. Flown by Lt. Hans-Ludwig Loscher. According to the text, it was finished in scheme 2:  RLM 81/82/76, with a black skid, white nose, and white '10' It was stated that the aircraft lacked any mottling and had a wavy demarcation between the RLM76 and the two upper surface colors, but in the b&w photo accompanying the profile and other photos of Komets close to her werk nummer,  I can see what looks to me to be very dense mottling that appears almost solid. I would try to find some other Komet photos to see what you think. My personal opinion is that the photo of White 10 in the VW monograph seems to have very dense mottling to the extent that the upper colors on the fuselage and fin look solid. There is a Kagero monograph titled Luftwaffe's Last Hope- Me-163, He-162, Me262 that has photos and color profiles of all three types- the old disclaimer still applies; (All together now.) never trust a profile without a photo!

Mike

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/6s0n2r/me163_b_flown_by_hptm_herbert_frömert_from/

 

This link shows another JG400 Komet, White 11...similar to, but not identical to the photo that shows White 10.

 

 

[Smudge]

Hi Mike. Although I can't find any pictures of white 10 myself, your description of it in the picture you have, matches well with the colour painting guide on the Airfix instructions. This would be the Scheme 5 in your link.

I have found pictures of white 9 and 11, finished as you describe, but these are noted as allocated to 1/JG400, as opposed to 2/JG400, which may account for the different finish, if they were given these camouflage finishes at unit level.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

[jimmaas]

Not wanting to start a kerfuffle, but the description of the Pt. Cook Me-163 is troublesome because it relies on (at the time, and even now) poorly understood late-war colors.  I'm firmly in the "83 is blue" camp, so the description given, a brown-green and a dark green, can't be 81/82; 82 is a brighter, lighter color.  But 34096 (the FS-595 value cited for the dark green color, and at best an approximation, is visually pretty close to several of the values given for RLM 71, which would fit the bill.  And manuafcturers were directed to use up old paints in conjunction with the new 81/82 colors.  So maybe the Pt. Cook aircraft was 81/71/76?

[Magpie22]

Jim,

I was at Point Cooke about the time Duffy decided to repaint the Me-163. I was able to acquire some samples of paint from the aircraft - not difficult as it was flaking off in places revealing a pale green undercoat. I've pulled them out, and comparing them to FS-595 gives the darker at approx 34096, but a bit greener than that. The lighter colour is close to 34102, but a bit lighter than that. Based on the colour chips in Ken Merrick's Classic Pubs book, the Point Cook Me-163 samples are close to RLM 80 Olivgrun and RLM 82 Olivgrun.

 

I realise that those RLM designations may be wrong according to more recent research so, while not 100%, my matches these may help in working out what RLM paints were on the Point Cook aircraft. I'll leave that to the experts. 

 

Peter M

[Michael louey]

Hi Jim, Peter,

 

Both your observations might match up with the specified pattern of RLM 81/82. RLM 81 sounds like it could vary a lot from a brownish green to a dark green (the latter leading to the belief a colour such as RLM 83 Dark Green was in use). Peter's FS match for the lighter colour appears close enough to RLM 82 Hellgrun (not quite as bright as the name makes it sound sometimes). The other colour could be a green version of RLM 81 or RLM71 - probably from a visual point of view, it wouldn't make much difference.

 

By the way, it won't be of any use for the discussion however here are some shots of the repainted Australian Me 163 at the AWM about 6 months ago.

 

 

 

 

Regards

 

Michael

Edited September 11, 2018 by Michael louey

[Magpie22]

Michael,

 

I deliberately steered clear of assigning my view of the RLM numbers to the colour samples. The area is a mine field I am not willing to enter. I'll leave that to the Luftwaffe Experten. Trying to sort out RAAF practice is mine field enough for me. 

 

The Magpies are still alive - keeping my fingers crossed!! 🤞

Cheers,

Peter

[Smudge]

On 11/09/2018 at 01:57, Michael louey said:

............however here are some shots of the repainted Australian Me 163 at the AWM about 6 months ago.

Thanks for posting the pictures, nice for detail reference, if not the colours. What a shame some bright spark decided to 'restore' it  

[fubar57]

I would like to enter the mine-field please. Below is from a chart taken from the book "Me 163 Komet #35" by AJ. Press - 1997. Not the definite answer, just some numbers. The author, followed by first, RLM 81, then RLM 82 and their corresponding FS.595a numbers. I know these aren't a direct match but horse-shoes, hand grenades and A-bombs............

 

Merrick: 34102/34127

              34108/34110

Munson: 24091/24087

               24110

*LCM: 24087

           34138

Klaus: 34087

           34138

**ExD: 34083

           34128/34227

 

* Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings Part 1,2 & 3 Kookaburra Press

** Experten Decals No. 3

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by fubar57
spelling which I never notice until 2 seconds after I hit Save

[Graham Boak]

I think it unsafe to quote colour descriptions without an indication of the date of their sources.  The Kookaburra books are quite old, whereas Merrick I assume is a reference to the much more recent two-part volumes from Classic rather than any of the other Luftwaffe books he has contributed to - including the Kookaburra series.  The colour chips in the Classic books are mixes made for the purpose by the German paint manufacturer responsible for the originals  (Or at least some of them!)