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HMS Westminster 1/350 Trumpeter with White Ensign photo etch


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The BERP blades were introduced gradually on the HAS3 as a retrofit - as old blades reached the end of life, they’d teplace them with BERPs.  That was happening at exactly the time you’re modelling (96-8, ish), so it would be very hard to be certain about which blades a particular airframe had at a given moment. [Equally, hard to say you’re wrong!]

 

Otherwise you’re right; original svelte Lynx nose (not as pointy as the Army version).  Orange Crop ESM aerials on the nose (the black things).  Tail rotor same size, but reverse direction.

 

And the ‘whatchamaflip’ panel midships (as you describe it) is the Emergency Conning Position - where you’d navigate and control the ship from if the bridge were to become unusable for any reason.  The tall thing is a pelorus (compass)

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More bits for you, Yes I mean the The Lynx HMA8, I think the HAS 3 Lynx did have the shaped rotors by 1996, I am sure I remember seeing the spares stacked in the hangar. But you need to ask one of the Wafu's for confirmation on that. 

 

I am not sure whether Westminster was deployed to the Falklands or not but the fitting of the DLF1 sponsons were applied to those ships first. Although it ended up as a universal addon and applied during Assisted Maintenance Periods. Somerset got them fitted almost immediately after coming out of build along with the Inmarsat dome fitted on the front of the funnel and the 1008 radar antenna on the bridge roof. I highly suspect Westminster was fitted with the DLF sponsons around that time period as all the Type 23s had to undergo a work package to make them compliant with IMO regulations and the sponson addition ended being wrapped up in that. Having said that I did spend a bit of time on Montrose in the autumn of 1995 and she didn't have the sponsons or the IMO compliant equipment fitted at that point in time. 

 

A quick comment on your model. The winches  fitted by the boat chocks are not needed. They relate to the later Veste Davits and not the Crane Davits that were fitted in 1996. 

 

Other than that I do like the extra detail though it really does enhance the model. You are doing a cracking job. I am enjoying following this build.:thumbsup:

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I know my dad did a deployment of the Falklands on a type 23 but I don’t remember if it was on Lancaster or Westminster. Will have to see if mum remembers. 

 

The winches must be a defect in the instructions. The kit includes the veste davits but instruction are for the crane and include the winches. 

 

Another inconsistency I think I’ve found is on the sponson all the way aft on the port side. The kit has three life rafts two on one rack and one on an another but the reference pictures I’ve seen have four on two racks. That said I’m wondering if I should fit shortened sponsons as per @Paul E‘s build?

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IMG_1904.jpg

 

Progress picture on the bridge structure, she's looking a bit of a mess at the minute. I made a hash of a bunch of the photo etch while making the modifications so ordered a second one which finally came today. It's turning into quite an expensive project but at least some of the pressure to nail the rest first time will be taken off, it also gives me the extra name plate I need. Plus I'm sure I will use the what ever is left over sooner or later. 

Turns out Dad did do a deployment of the Falklands while on Westminster so the sponsons and bridge mounted radar will stay. 

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On 9/23/2018 at 3:02 AM, Matthew Spence said:

Another inconsistency I think I’ve found is on the sponson all the way aft on the port side. The kit has three life rafts two on one rack and one on an another but the reference pictures I’ve seen have four on two racks. That said I’m wondering if I should fit shortened sponsons as per @Paul E‘s build?

Yes you are correct the sponsons on the hangar should match my model of Somerset.  There may be a slight difference to the positioning of the ladder to the port aft sponson but the important thing to note is that the kit sponsons reflect a later refit and not that of Westminster in 1996.

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Some more details on the bridge structure, I think this is basically finished now.

IMG_1925.jpgIMG_1926.jpgIMG_1927.jpg

I'm glad I had to redo the photo etch, I did a much better job the second time around. Not to mention the first time I had all the railings upside down, as I intuitively put the group of railings at the top. But I guess it makes sense to have them at the bottom to make squatting through them easier for access and will still catch you up if you are swept away on deck.

Paul I notice you left out small the radar dome on the main (aft) mast. Was this intentional to match the time period?

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12 hours ago, Matthew Spence said:

Paul I notice you left out small the radar dome on the main (aft) mast. Was this intentional to match the time period?

Yes. That small dome on the mainmast is a special fit for vessels that deploy to the Gulf and the first deployment of a Type 23 to the Gulf occured after 1996. 

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Another day another question, does this T shaped thing on top of the hanger want removing? I notice it is missing from Paul's Somerset build:

IMG_1931.jpg

 

Some more progress pics, slow but steady:

IMG_1930.jpg

 

IMG_1929.jpg

Most of the plastic on the hanger structure is done, just PE to do.

IMG_1932.jpg

 

The main mast is "done", but I'm not totally happy with the antenna/arial/??? at the top so have a feeling it'll get redone at some point.

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Coming along great Matthew. I can't answer your question re the T shaped structure on the hanger roof, but there are some excellent pictures of HMS Westminster on the following site. You may already have seen them.

 

http://www.seaforces.org/marint/Royal-Navy/Frigate/F-237-HMS-Westminster.htm

 

Unfortunately, none of them are date labelled I'm afraid, although the history at the bottom gives some clues to some of the pictures. For example there is reference to her visiting Docklands in 2014, and a picture of that further up. I was working there at around that time, and do recall a Type 23 coming in.

 

May be of some help?.

 

That website seems to be a really good photo reference for many past and present RN Warships, plus many others.

 

Terry

Edited by Terry1954
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9 minutes ago, Terry1954 said:

some excellent pictures of HMS Westminster on the following site

Thanks Terry they are some great pictures, but sadly these are all from either some time after (those with DFL2 launchers on the sponsons under the bridge), or before (those without any sponsons under the bridge at all).

However there is a good picture of the stern that demonstrates another question that I've been pondering:


F237-HMS-Westminster-014.jpg

 

And whether I need to construct this semi circle looking contraption just above the "F237" on the bow

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5 minutes ago, Matthew Spence said:

And whether I need to construct this semi circle looking contraption just above the "F237" on the bow

Hmm. I don't know what that is specifically but would guess at something to do with a stern anchor, or (less likely) VDS?

 

I am sure @Paul E @Chewbacca @Ex-FAAWAFU or others who know these ships will be able to help.

 

The more I look at these ships the handsome they become! Maybe I should add one of these to my build list @Courageous ? 😁

 

Terry

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I never had a 23, so cannot be sure.  But at a guess the semi-circular johnson is a fairlead to stop the 182 (towed acoustic decoy - a thing that looks like a short yellow torpedo) getting snarled up when being towed.  The 23s didn’t have towed array (did they...?).

 

[By the way... blunt bit = stern.  Pointy bit = bow.  The F237 is definitely not on the bow!]

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To put everybody's mind at rest. The T shaped thingy is part of the visual landings fitted for the Merlin helicopter and was fitted much later than 1996. The funny shaped U thing is part of the Towed Array Sonar 2031Z fairlead which was also known as the elephants ar$€hole. It is interesting to know that Trumpeter didn't provide an alternate part in the Westminster kit. As Somerset never had 2031 I didn't need to worry about it. But I intend to build a model of Argyll (my last ship) in the future and it would be good to know if it is included in either of the kits for Montrose or Monmouth.

 

Crisp you need to revisit my Somerset build! The 182 had the trampoline in the port opening of the transom 😁

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It seems a number were fitted with type 2087 towed array but the stern of those ones is slightly different to the picture Matthew posted. The following link shows more detail

 

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/united-kingdom/news/thales-anti-submarine-warfare-sonar-trials-royal-navy

 

When you look at the centre of the stern in the picture in the link, there is another central fairlead type hole but it looks as if it's nothing to do with the towed array and it's smaller and higher up the stern than the example shown on F237 above. I then found another link here to an article that suggest HMS Westminster did receive type 2087 in 2004, but looking at the way it is fitted in the above link, I still don't think that central fairlead is to do with the sonar, so suspect your theory on the 182 decoy may be correct? 

 

Warship fits over time are a complex art it seems!

 

Terry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Paul E said:

To put everybody's mind at rest. The T shaped thingy is part of the visual landings fitted for the Merlin helicopter and was fitted much later than 1996. The funny shaped U thing is part of the Towed Array Sonar 2031Z fairlead which was also known as the elephants ar$€hole. It is interesting to know that Trumpeter didn't provide an alternate part in the Westminster kit. As Somerset never had 2031 I didn't need to worry about it. But I intend to build a model of Argyll (my last ship) in the future and it would be good to know if it is included in either of the kits for Montrose or Monmouth.

 

Crisp you need to revisit my Somerset build! The 182 had the trampoline in the port opening of the transom 😁

Crossed in the post!

 

I'm none the wiser!

 

 

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Terry,

 

Sonar 2031Z was the Towed Array sonar fitted to the Type 23 Frigates up to Somerset and is the predecessor of the current Sonar 2087 which was retrofitted to all the remaining ships of the class. When 2087 was retro fitted the fairlead was moved.

 

Sonar 182 which Crisp mentions was a small yellow towed body that was suppossed to distract torpedos. It has also been replaced by Sonar 2058. The photographs you have are for these later fits.

 

You are correct about your comment on the changing fits, but that is part of the fun, it means it is relatively easy to make a unique model from the generic kit which in the case of Mathew's Westminster will make it quite special!

Edited by Paul E
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I knew I was out of date (plus my brain is in Ikara Leander mode, where towed things were VDS Type 199 & 2031 wasn’t even thought of). 

 

Paul is right; that is the elephant’s ar$ehole for 2031; unlike 2087, it had no large body thing involved, but was essentially a very long tube/wire which put passive acoustic sensors a good mile astern of the ship (away from self noise).  Boxer had an early 2031 when I joined her in the early 80s, but other than that my knowledge of it is limited to working with TA frigates when flying Seakings, spitting endless sonobuoys around the North Atlantic to refine their initial contact.  It was very challenging - but very, very seldom exciting.

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10 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

By the way... blunt bit = stern.  Pointy bit = bow.  The F237 is definitely not on the bow!

I knew this one, just had a moment 🤦‍♂️

 

9 hours ago, Paul E said:

It is interesting to know that Trumpeter didn't provide an alternate part in the Westminster kit

I Think they might have Paul, but it is not totally accurate: If I recall (it was one of the first bits I fitted and the hull has been in the box since) it is more of a full circle. And the instructions tell you to fit it and the 2087, which if it is that part is obviously a mistake. I don't have a photo to hand as she's packed away in the cupboard as I write this but will snap one next time I have her out.

Another detail I'm unsure about: the platform on the fore of the foremast (some kind of optical system?). Pre DFL1 refit photos show it with railings, post DFL2 refit photos show it without railings, since I'm modelling her between these points in time... any one know when or why the railings were removed? The most obvious explanation is it simply got in the way of the cameras in that little sphere, if that is the case one has to ask who's bright idea was it to fit railings in the first place?

Edited by Matthew Spence
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