German wooden propellers... Laminated, or not?

[Eivind Lunde]

I have been finishing off my 1/48 Eduard Fokker DVII OAW now, and the one thing left is to paint the propeller... 

So my questions are; Would the propeller likely be laminated? Did the use of lamination vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, or was it based on the intended use of the propeller?
 

I`m hoping to get away with a non laminated propeller, as this project has drained my will to live lately and I have not found a good enough way to paint laminated propellers yet.  

[Beardie]

Afraid that, I think, all German propellors were laminated, the Fokker D.VII's certainly employed a laminated prop. I wouldn't worry too much about it though. You could always just give the prop a streaky, woodlike finish for the moment just to complete the build and not glue it on so that you can come back at a later date and try for a more accurate laminated prop. look.

[dogsbody]

I would say that all wooden props are laminated. It makes for a stronger item as the wood can be glued together cross-grained and the thinner planks can be more easily inspected for any flaws that may cause weakness. Looking at D.VII props on GOOGLE also shows them fitted with laminated props.

 

 

 

Chris

[Eivind Lunde]

Just as I feared then. Oh well, guess I just have to learn how to do it properly.

[JackG]

If you have an  airbrush, you can make a 3D mask out of thin sheet plastic spaced apart, and then spray the the prop from the sides to create the laminated look.  The idea is based on an actual product you can buy, but being cheap I tried making my own.

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

 

[mackem01]

I too know your pain Eivind - you are not alone!

[Eivind Lunde]

1 hour ago, JackG said:

If you have an  airbrush, you can make a 3D mask out of thin sheet plastic spaced apart, and then spray the the prop from the sides to create the laminated look.  The idea is based on an actual product you can buy, but being cheap I tried making my own.

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

 

That is very interesting, as I have looked at the tool you refer to and thought about making a plastic version myself since the RB Productions propeller mask is for 1/32. 

So very cool to see you have made one yourself!

What kind of thickness did you use, and what about the spacing between the layers?
Do you find that it works as expected, or would you improve it somehow if you were to make a new version?

The result looks very good, so colour me both impressed and intrigued! 

 

26 minutes ago, mackem01 said:

I too know your pain Eivind - you are not alone!

That`s comforting to know 

 

First I stayed away from biplanes because I feared rigging them, but after completing an ICM 1/48 Polikarpov PO2/U2 I learned that there is really nothing to it, just patience.

 

And I have stayed away from WWI planes too, both because of the rigging of course, but also the dreaded wood effect challenge. But I quickly found a way to replicate wood that pleased me, using Vallejo natural wood and transparent wood colours, and using a needle to draw some grain into the plastic before painting it. 

Thinning the transparent wood colour and slowly building up the layers made for a quite convincing result, much better than I`d thought for a first attempt. 

 

But laminated wooden propellers is much more difficult to accomplish... But maybe this homemade tool suggested above would solve our problems?

[Beardie]

@JackG That is an impressive finish from your homemade tool. I have the RB productions version and found it far from easy to get a satisfactory result. I use it now for producing the sharp lines at the prop boss and the painting in the blades freehand with a rigger brush and dark(ish) brown enamel paint. Once the lines are roughed out in the enamel I find it quite easy to use a little thinners on a clean brush to tidy up the borders between the dark brown and light brown

[JackG]

Thanks both Eivind and Beardie.

 

Should mention the subject I tried this on was Eduard's 48th scale Oeffag Albatros.  I think the first improvement would be after the fact (as suggested above by Beardie) to use a pointed brush to touch things up after spraying.  The idea works great at the center of the prop where the surface is most perpendicular to the spray, but tends to thin out at the ends since the paint is hitting a slanted surface.

 

Next time I make another one of these 'Venetian blinds" mask for the prop, is perhaps add a wider bottom section for the prop to sit on - though my first attempt (pictured above) does allow to view how the spraying is coming along.  That bottom section would also benefit from a thicker plastic as the whole contraption can be quite flimsy.

 

As far as thickness goes, I can't remember exactly what I used, but obviously was the sizes listed on the sheet plastic packaging seen in the photo.  Probably thinnest one for the actual layers, with the spacers being the next size up - it really depends on how many layers the prop blade requires.  I suggest using at least four rows of spacers between the sections of plastic sheet.  Keep them narrow and there should be no problem of them blocking the paint spray.

 

regards,

Jack

[Eivind Lunde]

6 hours ago, JackG said:

Should mention the subject I tried this on was Eduard's 48th scale Oeffag Albatros.  I think the first improvement would be after the fact (as suggested above by Beardie) to use a pointed brush to touch things up after spraying.  The idea works great at the center of the prop where the surface is most perpendicular to the spray, but tends to thin out at the ends since the paint is hitting a slanted surface.

 

Yes, I`ve seen the problem with the feathering of the lines on the example picture on the RB Tools website too. Maybe it could be solved/reduced by shifting the masking layers so they come closer to the propeller profile, and thus the surface?

Like this / ?

 

I`ll try to make a pattern and built a prototype, and see if that would work. 

 

[Paul Thompson]

I just slice up Tamiya tape long enough to go the whole spane of the prop, around the hub. 3 or 4 slices is more than enough to give enough of a suggestion of lamination. Base coat with enamel, lamination coat with an acrylic, then tidy up with either a small brush as already suggested, or watercolour pencils of suitable colour, which is quicker and satisfies the I-want-it-now urges in me. Finally, a tinted top coat. I used to mix Tamiya clear orange and clear yellow, but these days am happy with Citadel Seraphin Sepia. If the prop needs makers logo decals then I'll also add a coat of Klear on top. Painting the boss is the last step.

 

I agree that almost all wooden airscrews were of laminated wood. Fortunately, some were painted, for example those on some German Giants (Staaken etc), and quite a few French types. Also handy is the British habit of binding them with doped linen, wither PC10, Battleship Grey or clear. Not so much to paint, and you don't have to pay so much attention to the changes in lamination width along the prop (which to be honest I rarely do in 1/72nd, but have to in larger scales). On the down side, they also sometimes had metal edging, usually brass.

 

If you can find one, the Windsock Datafile Special on British propellors is very useful, at least for RAF and RFC types. I don't know if they ever did one for other nationalities, or if it's still in print.

 

 

Paul.

[berman]

The best reference books on German propellers are written by Bob Gardner. "The German Propeller Industry 1914-19" is an overview.  "German Propeller Makers of WWI: Part One" covers Adastra to Garuda. Part two is the second volume covers Geest to Luckenwalde. I am waiting for "German Propeller Makers of WWI: Part Three:.

The three currently published books contain many color photos, drawings, wood species used, and other useful information

[krow113]

...and then someone throws a 4 blader into the mix...

How to do the laminations on these has given pause for reflection.

 

[Black Knight]

4 bladers were 2 two-bladers fixed at 90* using a half-lap joint

[Amo Aero]

To the best of my knowledge, all wooden propellers are laminated for strength and stability. A prop carved from a single piece would be prone to warping and splitting.   If no laminations are visible, the prop is either made from laminations of the same wood species (so no color contrast), or it's painted or wrapped in fabric.