Confused about Corvettes - how many hull varieties

[Tony Whittingham]

Hello  all,

I’m looking at the Revell corvettes with an eye to a long term project. I am confused as to the hull length variations. One of my references quotes 3 styles as follows, disregarding the well deck extensions:

1) Original hull, 205 ft. Overall

2) increased flare, 205 ft. Overall (apparently second group?)

3) Increased flare and sheer, 208 ft. Overall ( Modified Flower).

 

Maybe it’s an optical illusion, but the 1/144 kit seems to have increased rake on the stem, as opposed to the ex-Matchbox kit.

Is there in fact an intermediate group, and did Revell reproduce this hull in the smaller kit? 

Does anyone know the overall length of the smaller kit, in scale feet, to confirm the length?

 

My curiosity is killing me!

 

TW

[Modelholic]

AFAIK there were only 2 types: short forecastle (first batch) and then the modified long forecastle.  

The early ships were 205" with the modified coming in at  208" with (looking at pics) slightly more scheer on the stem. I'm uncertain (though I think it happened to at least some Canadian built Flowers) if any of the early batch had their forecastles extended later in their service. (so you could end up with both types of forecastle on the shorter hull.

Tom

[Hardcastle]

Most Corvettes were later upgraded and modified. There were minor design differences between the types produced in USA, vs Canada and the smaller UK yards.

Your best resource would be one of John Lambert's books.

 

Tim

[robgizlu]

Hi Tony

I think Tom and Tim have covered this.  Both the short forecastle and refitted "long" forecastle were 205 ft in length wheras the "Modified" Flower was indeed 3 feet longer with with pronounced increased flare and sheer - sufficient to cause the 4" gun to have to be raised.

The 1/144 Revell version is a nice base kt that benefits from Aftermarket attention.

This is my build...

 

 

Both the 1/72 and 1/144 kits depict the "Long forecastle versions.  Actual kit length is 432mm so I'm not certain as to how closely that equates to 205ft actual.

I looked at a built 1/72 model recently and it does look stubbier though I think you are right in feeling that this is an optical quirk.

As Tim says - you cant go wrong buying Shipcrafts "Flower Class Corvettes" by John Lambert and Les Brown.  Cheap and surprisingly comprehensive.

Rob

[Tony Whittingham]

Thanks All!

 It would appear that the 1/144 kit comes in at 204 feet, close enough to the 205 ft.  length of the original design. But Rob’s photo shows a rake on the bow, and possibly increased sheer. Rob, do you have a horizontal side view of the focsle deck that you could share? I have a feeling this is a lot closer to a modified Flower than an early one, which might be good thing! Only concern is where 3 feet went to on the kit (6mm).

I do have the Shipcraft book, and also of Ken MacPhersons “Corvettes of the Royal Canadian Navy “, which is where the confusion arose, as he differentiates between the first and second groups of Canadian built ships.

 

TW

[robgizlu]

Hi Tony

Here's the RFI pics for Crocus

 

HTH

Rob

[Tony Whittingham]

Thanks Rob,

Very nice build, congratulations!  I’ll have to pick one of those up. It does look as if there’s increased sheer compared to the Matchbox/Revell kit. I also noted the “less rounded “ stern, common in the late corvettes.

 

Cheers,

TW

[Tony Whittingham]

16 hours ago, Hardcastle said:

Most Corvettes were later upgraded and modified. There were minor design differences between the types produced in USA, vs Canada and the smaller UK yards.

Your best resource would be one of John Lambert's books.

 

Tim

Hello Hardcastle,

To the best of my knowledge, the US did not build any Corvettes, but went straight to the DE and Patrol Frigates. Corvettes in US Navy came from either RN or RCN.

 

TW

[EwenS]

On 27/08/2018 at 21:29, Modelholic said:

AFAIK there were only 2 types: short forecastle (first batch) and then the modified long forecastle.  

The early ships were 205" with the modified coming in at  208" with (looking at pics) slightly more scheer on the stem. I'm uncertain (though I think it happened to at least some Canadian built Flowers) if any of the early batch had their forecastles extended later in their service. (so you could end up with both types of forecastle on the shorter hull.

Tom

Ah if only life were that simple.

As originally envisaged the Flowers were to be coastal escorts and minesweepers but rapidly found themselves undertaking transatlantic escort duties. In the UK completions of the original Flowers lasted from April 1940 to November 1942 and along the way the hull shape was modified with the introduction of a longer forecastle deck (refitted retrospectively to many ships) and greater sheer and flare built into the bows to make them more seaworthy and habitable in the North Atlantic. The bridge structure was also subject of development along the way again with many ships being modified when in for refit. By the end of the run the hull shape was very similar to the Modified Flowers that began to complete in August 1943 and of which only 11 were built in the UK.

 

See the following pictures from the IWM of Asphodel (completed Sept 1940 and modified with the extended fo'csle deck, Hedgehog, Radar etc) and Balsam (the last completed in Nov 1942) very much resembling a Modified Flower with increased sheer and flare built into the hull.

 

www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205120120

www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205120143

 

For many more Flower pictures and more info on these ships you could try the Flower Class Corvette Forums

www.tapatalk.com/groups/theflowerclasscorvetteforums/flower-class-corvette-images-f70/

 

I hope this helps although it may confuse you more. Best advice I think is pick a ship and then try to get a photo and build a model you like.  There are plenty to choose from!!

[EwenS]

12 hours ago, Tony Whittingham said:

Hello Hardcastle,

To the best of my knowledge, the US did not build any Corvettes, but went straight to the DE and Patrol Frigates. Corvettes in US Navy came from either RN or RCN.

 

TW

Britain transferred 10 Flower class corvettes to the USN between March & June 1942 from its existing forces. These were badly needed by the USN at the time due to the shipping losses it was suffering off its coasts in the first 6 months of 1942, the so called Second Happy Time for the U boats.

The USN then took over RN orders for 15 Modified Flowers from Canadian yards. Of these 7 transferred to the RN under lend lease and the remaining 8 were completed between November 1942 and August 1943 and served with the USN.

As far as the DE is concerned that is only part of the story. The first DEs were laid down at the beginning of 1942 with the first completions in January 1943.

With the exception of the first 2 PF which were built in Canada, the PF programme was even later, not beginning until 1943.

Prior to the DEs arriving in the fleet the US had started a programme to build the wooden 110' Submarine Chaser from Spring 1941 based on 1940 prototypes with the first completions in April 1942.

In addition it built the steel hulled 175' Patrol Craft (PC) from mid 1941 also based on a 1940 prototype. This was also very much a coastal vessel. That programme began to bear fruit in March 1942, and some 70+ were completed in 1942 alone, of an eventual total of 354 built between then and 1945. It can be thought of as the US equivalent of the Flower as originally envisaged. These were followed by 63 Patrol Craft Escort (PCE) between mid 1943 and mid 1945 of which 15 came to Britain under lend lease as the Kil class.

The DE is best thought of as a cross between an Americanised version of the River class frigate and the Hunt class destroyer depending on which power unit was installed.

[Tony Whittingham]

Thanks to all for your input. It’s now clear to me that there was an intermediate group of corvettes that had the hull of the Modified Flowers, but not the new boilers. These can be identified by increased rake on the bow, and the original ventilators and funnel. The smaller Revell kit seems to be one of these.

 

TW