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bentwaters81tfw

SEA KING ALERT! Did you work on them?

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Sounds like the situation over here a decade(?) ago with F-111 framies and their exposure to chemicals (fuel tank? Maybe? Can't recall now.)

I do like the way that the royal personages are mentioned. They have nowt to do with the situation, but heck, let's make ourselves legit by invoking their names! Maybe they'll help foot the rehab bill?

Best of luck to anyone concerned.

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This could turn out to be quite a serious issue, with possible long term effects; so let's not turn this into a politically motivated, or monarchy bashing downward spiral.  :nono:

 

Mike

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1 hour ago, bootneck said:

serious issue

I'm going to 'phone Westlands on Tuesday , probably the medical centre for advice . I really can't remember any asbestos unless it was part of composite panels up round the engines/MGB . Any ideas Mike ?

 

BTW I second Mikes comment, I don't want an important (to some of us ) subject like this being locked because of any other reasons that have nothing to do with threat to health . 

Edited by bzn20

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2 hours ago, bzn20 said:

I'm going to 'phone Westlands on Tuesday , probably the medical centre for advice . I really can't remember any asbestos unless it was part of composite panels up round the engines/MGB . Any ideas Mike ?

 

BTW I second Mikes comment, I don't want an important (to some of us ) subject like this being locked because of any other reasons that have nothing to do with threat to health . 

If anything I think the last place to look out for health issues is on Brit Modeller, I would imagine national press would to be the place to keep the attention focused. In my opinion this site I thought was for Modelling and difficult issues relating to building kits...………..already I note at times that some of the threads stray well away from modelling 

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12 minutes ago, rayprit said:

I thought was for Modelling

It's in real aviation.. It's real . Not modelling then. Anyway there are plenty of people on here that have worked on Sea Kings and might have missed the BBC news.. might be ,might be abroad or might not be glued to TV or their website . Surely you can see the need to inform people that if they worked on Sea Kings ,there could be health issues . I really don't understand your attitude . I would have put it up if it hadn't already been on here . See a thread ,don't like it ? Move on . I do it quite a few times.

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I wouldn't expect the 'Medical Centre' (Occupational Health) at 'Westlands' (Leonardo Helicopters) to have any data on any Asbestos Components that may have been used on the Sea King- (I'm wondering if it was used in an insulation blanket/ jacket type affair on hot ducts/ pipes but I'm not an SK dude)

Your best bet would be to ask for the Health and Safety department, as they should have data for this type of stuff, however, If your potential exposure was during Military Service I would suggest that they are the people with the responsibility to answer your questions. 

 

 

Troffa

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41 minutes ago, Troffa said:

I wouldn't expect the 'Medical Centre'

I would ,they've got a lot of people there that worked on them so they should know the right dept or details . A great Medical Centre , not just a First Aid post. It's a place to start , I'll soon be pushed to right place. I've built and worked on about 30 Sea Kings RAF, Navy , Junglies , Norwegian and Belgian all marks to 1994-1999 . The top deck, engines and MGB is where I'd expect the Asbestos, I just can't remember any. Unless Composite panels were impregnated with the stuff for fire resistance. The Fibreglass transmission covers that run to the IGB from the Dog Kennel ,some of those were rough as Raisins .

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There was asbestos on the Wessex too.

At one point I saw it wrapped around the exhausts.

I still have a small sealed packet of it with section & ref etc in the garage.

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Thread running on Pprune as well, they generally seem to get good gen so worth having a look at.

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19 minutes ago, junglierating said:

pm me

One inbound !

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45 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said:

I still have a small sealed packet of it with section & ref etc in the garage

Sneaky bunch those of old Lincoln .. with a Mutley snigger !

 

Something else called Lincs

 

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Most legacy aircraft (designed in the 60s and early 70s) contained asbestos in one form or another. in the early 2000s (when I worked in the Jaguar/Canberra Engineering Authority) there was a decree that came from the Secretary of State for Defence who stated that the MOD should make every effort to remove asbestos from it's equipment. So at great cost with the aid of BAE Systems we set about identifying each and every part that contained the stuff. Of the 10s of thousands of parts on the aircraft I think we identified less than 200 that had it in one form or another.

 

IIRC they were categorised from 1-4 with one being the nasty stuff (blue chrysotile) or areas where loose fibres are exposed regularly to maintainers etc. We discovered that the honeycomb composite panels that made up a large part of the aircraft, if manufactured before 1973 contained a small amount of asbestos in the bonding resin. The only way to replace the asbestos would be to rip out the main structural mbers of the aircraft which would effectively have scrapped it. After carrying out a risk assessment, the only way we could cover it was to issue a warning in the repair manual which stated that you had to take suitable H&S precautions when drilling into the panels, and all of this for a tiny percentage of asbestos that may or may not have been present. It's a little known fact that PRC sealant which will be familiar to an ex-RAF riggers out there also contained a small amount of asbestos as a binding agent up to 1973 so the same precautions were also taken when disturbing it.

 

In short we never completely removed all of the asbestos from the aircraft but these were all in the low risk categories 3-4 and most were buried in electronic boxes not routinely exposed to maintainers. I'd be very surprised if the SeaKing EA didn't carry out a similar exercise and I wonder if the Australian serviceman who kicked this off had been exposed to an aircraft where perhaps the identification and removal had been a bit less thorough if indeed it was the source of the problem. You are more likely to have been exposed to greater amounts of asbestos if you lived in a UK house built before 1980 or went to school in the UK. However if you worked in a RN ship stripping out asbestos lagging that's a different matter

 

John

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Having worked on both Sea Kings and Wessex and seeing the article on the WAFU FB page, the press and now here, I am still failing to get so worked up about it. 

 

Having been a grubber on these aircraft I'm sure I've been exposed to my fair share of asbestos via the exhaust jackets, brakes, fire proof panels etc. I feel relatively fit and well, I don't smoke and so have a good lung function. Maybe as a precaution I'll chat to my GP via a phone call and take his recommendation? 

 

I cant get worked up about it, I won't loose sleep. It's good to know for future referance but that's all.

 

Just my thoughts on the mad panic that seems to be being whipped up.

 

The Woo

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54 minutes ago, Wafu said:

Having worked on both Sea Kings and Wessex and seeing the article on the WAFU FB page, the press and now here, I am still failing to get so worked up about it. 

 

Having been a grubber on these aircraft I'm sure I've been exposed to my fair share of asbestos via the exhaust jackets, brakes, fire proof panels etc. I feel relatively fit and well, I don't smoke and so have a good lung function. Maybe as a precaution I'll chat to my GP via a phone call and take his recommendation? 

 

I cant get worked up about it, I won't loose sleep. It's good to know for future referance but that's all.

 

Just my thoughts on the mad panic that seems to be being whipped up.

 

The Woo

I tend to agree ... and there is a report kicking about which if from 2003 with the real aspiration to minimise components with asbestos on a/c.

That said im of to a funeral this with a person who had asbestosis...different route cause but many others were exposed to and defo more acute exposure....i got a certificate from the Army Occ health ....subsequently 

I recently had an x ray all is good but recommend every two years....reason if you got it you got it but early analysis will release various moneys etc....rather than at the last minute and thats not money grab either ....frankly i will stick with functioning lungs

Edited by junglierating

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On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 8:26 AM, 12jaguar said:

Most legacy aircraft (designed in the 60s and early 70s) contained asbestos in one form or another. in the early 2000s (when I worked in the Jaguar/Canberra Engineering Authority) there was a decree that came from the Secretary of State for Defence who stated that the MOD should make every effort to remove asbestos from it's equipment. So at great cost with the aid of BAE Systems we set about identifying each and every part that contained the stuff. Of the 10s of thousands of parts on the aircraft I think we identified less than 200 that had it in one form or another.

 

IIRC they were categorised from 1-4 with one being the nasty stuff (blue chrysotile) or areas where loose fibres are exposed regularly to maintainers etc.

 

... certain gaskets in the air con system perchance ? 

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3 hours ago, JagRigger said:

 

... certain gaskets in the air con system perchance ? 

IIRC (and it was 16 years ago) there were no Class 1 items on the aircraft, there was a couple of Class 2s and the rest were 3 - 4; a few of which were gaskets although I think mainly fuel system. We did get involved however when a sharp eyed member of the public noted on Scrap Heap Challenge that the punters were merrily using Cengar saws to cut into what appeared to be phenolic asbestos drop tanks with resulting clouds of dust etc. They weren't Jag ones though, looking more like Hunter items IMHO.

 

John

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I cant see its being whipped up per say, if there is any kind of risk its better out in the open so people know, and if they want to can get it checked out.

 

As for this not being an issue for a modelling site, its welcome in this the real aviation section, and more than welcome given the number of ex forces personnel we have as member.

 

Julien

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This is from the WAFU Facebook page.

 

It was only a matter of time before money grabbing legal teams jumped on the band wagon. When you have enjoyed polycast with your egg banjos, washed your hands in trich, got a buzz from MEK and licked your finger to smooth out PRC, asbestos is the last of your worries.

 

Sounds like this guy was on 845 with me, lol.

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21 minutes ago, Wafu said:

When you have enjoyed polycast with your egg banjos, washed your hands in trich, got a buzz from MEK and licked your finger to smooth out PRC, asbestos is the last of your worries.

 

 

The Royal Artillery allegedly make the best Egg Banjos in the Army. When in the field, they are fried in light gun oil. :eat:

My late father and my ex boss were both RA.

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Yet possibly better than going for scrap, I feel.

And certainly better than the fire dump.

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On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 1:12 PM, Wafu said:

This is from the WAFU Facebook page.

 

It was only a matter of time before money grabbing legal teams jumped on the band wagon. When you have enjoyed polycast with your egg banjos, washed your hands in trich, got a buzz from MEK and licked your finger to smooth out PRC, asbestos is the last of your worries.

 

Sounds like this guy was on 845 with me, lol.

And me....!

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